2019 Aki Basho Discussion (spoiler alert!)

[Kaninoyama 1,713]

56 minutes ago, Kotomiyama said:

Onosho's specialty: losing from an advantageous position. The man is an expert.

It is indeed, but at least he's able to get those advantageous positions, and he still has youth on his side, so if he can just learn to settle down and stay within himself, he could eventually learn to turn those losses into wins and more success than he's been having lately.

[WAKATAKE 2,644]

Tachiai's day 7 highlights seemed to be really critical of the matches for the day.

[rhyen 1,823]

Myogiru just went kyujo...

[Kaninoyama 1,713]

10 minutes ago, rhyen said:

Myogiru just went kyujo...

What a bummer for him. He's been looking like his old self lately and having a great basho. Wish him well.

[WAKATAKE 2,644]

So has Kakuryu

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201909150000134.html

[Zannah 49]

1 hour ago, rhyen said:

Myogiru just went kyujo...

Wooot? And I thought he was doing decent... 

Just saw some comment in twitter that Kaku's kyujo is confirmed too.... (edit: You beat me to it @WAKATAKE  )

Edited September 15, 2019 by Zannah

[since_94 650]

Thoroughly not enjoying all these withdrawals. Plus, as has been mentioned elsewhere, the quality of sumo on display has been sorely lacking. While some fights have been scrappy and even “exciting” at times, there has not been much of what could truly be called “beautiful sumo” to be found. Yes, the wide open field of contenders gunning for the yusho makes the eventual outcome interesting, but this has not been a good tournament at all, IMO. The depleted and diminished  sanyaku is a recurring theme that’s grown well tiresome, not that I’m blaming the rikishi. They’re severely overworked with the heavy jungyo schedule between tournaments, so injuries can’t heal. Ishiura is a bright light among the rank and filers, though. This is the best I’ve seen him since about 2016, possibly ever. So happy he’s not relying on the henka anymore. He’s so strong, his tachiai actually qualifies him to slam chests with the best of the big boys, and I think he finally believes it. 

[since_94 650]

41 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

So has Kakuryu

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201909150000134.html

So disappointing. But as the auto translator notes, it’s because:

 

Tsuru Ryu was distributing Venus for three consecutive days

 

 

I guess when you’re distributing Venus so often, it can start to become rather embarrassing.

[shumitto 418]

So how are you going to celebrate Okinoumi's Yusho ?

Ok, I might be exaggerating a bit(!), but I have never seen him put some much effort as he did against Myogiryu. I've always believed he was more talented than his record showed, so it is good to see a performance like this with Yusho or not.

On a more serious note, going by the numbers and recent form the best candidate is probably Mitakeumi but not by a large margin. This unpredictability more than makes up for the loss of quality brought about by some important absences in the upper ranks plus Tochinoshin limping to makekoshi.

I am yet to watch Juryo this time but the results suggest that Ikioi has managed a comeback of sorts. Go Ikioi !

[sekitori 492]

30 minutes ago, since_94 said:

 While some fights have been scrappy and even “exciting” at times, there has not been much of what could truly be called “beautiful sumo” to be found.

To me, "beautiful sumo" translates as winning consistently and decisively by using a number of effective kimarites. Unfortunately, that definition refers to only one rikishi--and he is currently kyujo with a broken finger. 

[shumitto 418]

37 minutes ago, since_94 said:

 The depleted and diminished  sanyaku is a recurring theme that’s grown well tiresome, not that I’m blaming the rikishi. They’re severely overworked with the heavy jungyo schedule between tournaments, so injuries can’t heal.

No doubt the jungyo schedule plays a role, but it has been there for quite a while. The likely reason we are seeing this is that this generation born between 83 (Kotooshu) - 87 (Tochinoshin) has dominated sumo since before Asashoryu's retirement, that is for more than a decade. They are bowing out, but it is not as smooth a process as some would like it to be. They will try to carry on skipping a basho here and there until it is no longer possible. It may take a while until a younger and healthier group takes over. 

[Rocks 1,807]

Man that sucks for Myogiryu, I was beginning to think he'd double digit win. I wonder if he might come back after a few days. Even with 3 days off he'd only need to win 3 out of last 5 for a KK.

[UncleMoustache 41]

 

7 hours ago, UncleMoustache said:

3 losses in a row by Kakuryu.  I wonder if he's going to drop out?  

 

1 hour ago, WAKATAKE said:

So has Kakuryu

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201909150000134.html

 

 

You heard it here first!

Too bad, though. I hoped he would have stuck it out.

[robnplunder 975]

1 hour ago, since_94 said:

Thoroughly not enjoying all these withdrawals. Plus, as has been mentioned elsewhere, the quality of sumo on display has been sorely lacking. While some fights have been scrappy and even “exciting” at times, there has not been much of what could truly be called “beautiful sumo” to be found. 

"Beautiful sumo" is a oxymoron.  Exciting, yes.  Ballet it ain't.   But I see the quality of sumo has took a nose dive since the days of four Yokozuna.  After Hak and Kak retires, it will be like watching replacement MLB/NFL for those who are old enough to witness the tragedy, travesty, mediocrity, ....  

[Eikokurai 3,437]

They introduced the one-foreigner-per-heya rule to benefit Japanese rikishi (among other things) but it’s not led to any great improvement. All it’s really done is deny the sport another generation of Mongolian technicians and European brutes. Unless and until sumo becomes an attractive prospect, it’s unlikely to be of appeal to Japan’s best young athletes, so the pool of genuine talent is limited. We’re left with a lot of guys who can only push and slap a bit. A few, like Asanoyama, give some hope, but the future looks overwhelmingly oshi.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Eikokurai

[since_94 650]

54 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

"Beautiful sumo" is a oxymoron.  Exciting, yes.  Ballet it ain't.   But I see the quality of sumo has took a nose dive since the days of four Yokozuna.  After Hak and Kak retires, it will be like watching replacement MLB/NFL for those who are old enough to witness the tragedy, travesty, mediocrity, ....  

Actually, I find a lot of the footwork at the tawara very ballet-like. It’s amazing to watch a 400 lb behemoth pirouette gracefully on one foot while dispatching a charging opponent, snatching victory from defeat in the process. Doesn’t get much better. One of the reasons I watch.

[Chankomafuji 51]

The Sumo Association has all the resources to organize sumo to look more like modern thing while still keeping the bout rules intact. It does not seem appealing to children, it looks old. Imagine if just out of nowhere they introduce dohyo entrance in a WWE style. Just imagine the hype when Hakuho enters the arena under the theme of the Undertaker,  Enho with Shawn Michaels theme, Tamawashi as Stone Cold Steve Austin, Tochinohin as Triple H, Ichinojo as the Big Show and on and on ... and Endo, the people's champ, replacing the usual one-word lines with a The Rock style promo 20 years ago. Akebono took sumo to WWE but they did not NEED it. Someone has to bring WWE to sumo, the next generation needs it.

[specialweek 2 136]

1 minute ago, Chankomafuji said:

The Sumo Association has all the resources to organize sumo to look more like modern thing while still keeping the bout rules intact. It does not seem appealing to children, it looks old. Imagine if just out of nowhere they introduce dohyo entrance in a WWE style. Just imagine the hype when Hakuho enters the arena under the theme of the Undertaker,  Enho with Shawn Michaels theme, Tamawashi as Stone Cold Steve Austin, Tochinohin as Triple H, Ichinojo as the Big Show and on and on ... and Endo, the people's champ, replacing the usual one-word lines with a The Rock style promo 20 years ago. Akebono took sumo to WWE but they did not NEED it. Someone has to bring WWE to sumo, the next generation needs it.

Thank god it doesn't. If you believe this is what  sumo needs you are watching for the wrong reasons.

[Morty 1,483]

4 minutes ago, Chankomafuji said:

The Sumo Association has all the resources to organize sumo to look more like modern thing while still keeping the bout rules intact. It does not seem appealing to children, it looks old. Imagine if just out of nowhere they introduce dohyo entrance in a WWE style. Just imagine the hype when Hakuho enters the arena under the theme of the Undertaker,  Enho with Shawn Michaels theme, Tamawashi as Stone Cold Steve Austin, Tochinohin as Triple H, Ichinojo as the Big Show and on and on ... and Endo, the people's champ, replacing the usual one-word lines with a The Rock style promo 20 years ago. Akebono took sumo to WWE but they did not NEED it. Someone has to bring WWE to sumo, the next generation needs it.

No offense, but that would really suck. 

[Midoriyama 35]

9 minutes ago, Chankomafuji said:

The Sumo Association has all the resources to organize sumo to look more like modern thing while still keeping the bout rules intact. It does not seem appealing to children, it looks old. Imagine if just out of nowhere they introduce dohyo entrance in a WWE style. Just imagine the hype when Hakuho enters the arena under the theme of the Undertaker,  Enho with Shawn Michaels theme, Tamawashi as Stone Cold Steve Austin, Tochinohin as Triple H, Ichinojo as the Big Show and on and on ... and Endo, the people's champ, replacing the usual one-word lines with a The Rock style promo 20 years ago. Akebono took sumo to WWE but they did not NEED it. Someone has to bring WWE to sumo, the next generation needs it.

wow it has been a long time I heard something as stupid as this. Sumo has been here for 300+ years and will be here probably the next 300 even without s**t like this. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Midoriyama

[Chankomafuji 51]

I tried to be sarcastic but I should have hinted it better. The point is not who and why is watching but the question of who in the future are we to watch. It is the oyakata who say its hard to get people into sumo, not a random forum member.

[Ichimawashi 573]

6 minutes ago, Chankomafuji said:

The Sumo Association has all the resources to organize sumo to look more like modern thing...

We already have up to ten minutes of buildup before the big matches and you want to add a separate entrance with music for each rikishi in each bout.  21 matches in makuuchi would take three hours instead of two.  I think it is great that Hattorizakura and Hakuho both enter the ring area and sit down and wait for their names to be called, the only difference being that Hattorizakura's name echoes more because of the attendance level.

[robnplunder 975]

6 minutes ago, Chankomafuji said:

I tried to be sarcastic but I should have hinted it better. The point is not who and why is watching but the question of who in the future are we to watch. It is the oyakata who say its hard to get people into sumo, not a random forum member.

Geesh, they shoot the messenger, didn't they?    I got your point.   Hak should wear superman getup, cape and all.  Enho - might mouse attire.   That'd get the Japanese kids to get into sumo in droves.   

[WAKATAKE 2,644]

17 minutes ago, Chankomafuji said:

The Sumo Association has all the resources to organize sumo to look more like modern thing while still keeping the bout rules intact. It does not seem appealing to children, it looks old. Imagine if just out of nowhere they introduce dohyo entrance in a WWE style. Just imagine the hype when Hakuho enters the arena under the theme of the Undertaker,  Enho with Shawn Michaels theme, Tamawashi as Stone Cold Steve Austin, Tochinohin as Triple H, Ichinojo as the Big Show and on and on ... and Endo, the people's champ, replacing the usual one-word lines with a The Rock style promo 20 years ago. Akebono took sumo to WWE but they did not NEED it. Someone has to bring WWE to sumo, the next generation needs it.

It were not appealing to children, why do we see constantly shots of children cheering for the wrestlers? A great example would be the boy who was holding a banner for Enho. If sumo is not appealing to children, then why are there the various wanpaku sumo tournaments that are held annually, plus sumo being a sanctioned sport in the Interhigh? Where does sumo not appeal to children?

[Akinomaki 40,098]

4 hours ago, shumitto said:

No doubt the jungyo schedule plays a role, but it has been there for quite a while. The likely reason we are seeing this is that this generation born between 83 (Kotooshu) - 87 (Tochinoshin) has dominated sumo since before Asashoryu's retirement, that is for more than a decade. They are bowing out, but it is not as smooth a process as some would like it to be. They will try to carry on skipping a basho here and there until it is no longer possible. It may take a while until a younger and healthier group takes over.  

Those like Ura ...

- with the mass of straining extra events and the state of injury management at the moment, there will be no younger AND healthier group - just a few exceptional  ones.

Limit jungyo locations to 60 and jungyo days to 70 per year, or 10 kyujo sekitori per basho will become the annual  average in the next 10 years.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Akinomaki