2019 Aki Basho Discussion (spoiler alert!)

[Godango 980]

16 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

Enho's yorikiri on Kotoshogiku is a much bigger reflection of the latter's physical deterioration than the former's skill.

It can be two things.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

4 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

So it looks like the makushita yusho will be Terunofuji vs Chiyonokuni. Who would have thought this type of match would ever happen.

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by Otokonoyama

[Rainoyama 1,157]

42 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

Enho's yorikiri on Kotoshogiku is a much bigger reflection of the latter's physical deterioration than the former's skill.

I can't deny it was a good win from Enho but was thinking the exact same, 4-7 ranked as low as M7 I'm wondering how long Giku will manage to stay around.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

58 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

I can't deny it was a good win from Enho but was thinking the exact same, 4-7 ranked as low as M7 I'm wondering how long Giku will manage to stay around.

He has managed to bounce between the joi and mid-makuuchi since losing rank as ozeki two and a half years ago. He even had a makikoshi at M8 a year ago, yet managed to get all the way back to M1for Natsu this year. He's likely to be around another year or two.

[Asapedroryu 233]

It's clearly time for Kotoshogiku to retire. A former Ozeski that can't win as a mid-maegashira it means his body has had enough. One thing is to get a 6-9 as upper-maegashira when you have to fight all the top rikishi. No shame on that. Other thing is to lose like he has been doing and against the people he has lost. Hopefully he has some good sense and will retire by the end of the year.

Toyonoshima can join him on the retire list. His body is long gone too.

[Tigerboy1966 1,443]

2 minutes ago, RPedro44 said:

It's clearly time for Kotoshogiku to retire.

This is the same Kotoshogiku I confidently predicted would retire after Nagoya 2017. And Aki 2018.

[Asapedroryu 233]

4 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

This is the same Kotoshogiku I confidently predicted would retire after Nagoya 2017. And Aki 2018.

There is a difference on the quality of the rikishi he lost back then and the ones losing now.

A former Ozeki losing to Enho, Sadanoumi or Shimanoumi? Not acceptable.

[ryafuji 814]

Giku reminds me of Takanonami who stuck around for a few years as an ex-ozeki doing his one trick (kimedashi in his case, gabburi in Giku's) to ever diminishing returns. I don't think he has long left on the evidence of this basho.

[Jakusotsu 5,952]

Would you like me telling you to quit your job because you're not up to my standards? Thought so...

Edited September 18, 2019 by Jakusotsu

[ryafuji 814]

If I had another perfectly good job lined up until 65 that didn't involve me wrecking my body every day I wouldn't mind much, no.

[Dwale 419]

The first basho where I'm expecting to see the gyoji coming out all taped up by the end...

Kotoshogiku v. Enho is a good example of what makes Enho so entertaining to watch: constant activity and a diverse, adaptable offense. Contrast that with another small guy like Ishiura. If Ishiura's initial gambit fails, that's usually curtains for him. With Enho, he'll keep pulling moves out of his hat until something sticks (or he loses, but hey, it happens).

I had said on twitter that if Takakeisho regains his ozeki rank, it'll be the story of the year. What if he were to take the cup as well? It's a real possibility and man is that weird. But I would love to see it. A lot can happen over four days, of course, and even his return to ozeki isn't yet a done deal. He's shown before he handles pressure well, though.

Mitakeumi just about had that, but Ryuden is very strong. Well, can't complain too much about a loss to Ryuden, he's a good rikishi. Mita isn't technically out of the running yet, but that loss does hurt. Still hoping he'll rack up the needed wins for an ozeki run: if he can't get double digits in a basho like this then he doesn't deserve it anyway.

[Tsubame 361]

36 minutes ago, RPedro44 said:

A former Ozeki losing to Enho, Sadanoumi or Shimanoumi? Not acceptable.

Since when it is not acceptable to lose against a certain rikishi?! 

What strange standard is that?!

[Asapedroryu 233]

3 minutes ago, Tsubame said:

Since when it is not acceptable to lose against a certain rikishi?! 

What strange standard is that?!

You need to have a word with the YDC (ok. He was Ozeki, not Yok).

There is a limit on the quality of the rikishi you are allowed to lose too. Because "quality" is a very subjective word, of course it depends from person to person. For me is not acceptable to lose against those 3 in the same basho.

For other people, maybe they would consider not acceptable for him to lose against 3 juryu in same basho, but believe everyone should have a limit.

For sure if a non-injured Hakuho starts losing all the time with makushita or lower, even if that is in trainning, people are going to ask for his head.

 

 

[Rainoyama 1,157]

1 hour ago, Otokonoyama said:

He has managed to bounce between the joi and mid-makuuchi since losing rank as ozeki two and a half years ago. He even had a makikoshi at M8 a year ago, yet managed to get all the way back to M1for Natsu this year. He's likely to be around another year or two.

I like him so I hope your right. What worries me his that even when he had that MK at M8 he finished 7-8 that time and "only" fell to M9. He is 4-7 so far so yes it's still possible for him to finish with a KK or a 7-8 record but he's not looking good at all and from what I see I fear he'll end up 5-10 or worse and fall to the bottom of makuuchi and retire if he can't climb back up right away. Makuuchi veterans are retiring one after the other lately so maybe that's why I feel concerned ?

[ryafuji 814]

17 minutes ago, RPedro44 said:

You need to have a word with the YDC (ok. He was Ozeki, not Yok).

There is a limit on the quality of the rikishi you are allowed to lose too. Because "quality" is a very subjective word, of course it depends from person to person. For me is not acceptable to lose against those 3 in the same basho.

For other people, maybe they would consider not acceptable for him to lose against 3 juryu in same basho, but believe everyone should have a limit.

For sure if a non-injured Hakuho starts losing all the time with makushita or lower, even if that is in trainning, people are going to ask for his head.

 

 

Ozeki aren't held to the same standard as Yokozuna. An ex-ozeki is allowed to continue in makuuchi (or even lower these days) for as long as he wants.

[Morty 1,495]

4 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Ozeki aren't held to the same standard as Yokozuna. An ex-ozeki is allowed to continue in makuuchi (or even lower these days) for as long as he wants.

Terunofuji says "Hi" from Makushita for example

[Atenzan 1,074]

6 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Ozeki aren't held to the same standard as Yokozuna. An ex-ozeki is allowed to continue in makuuchi (or even lower these days) for as long as he wants.

Not even sure about the "these days" - in any case, Kotoshougiku seems to like being a rikishi. Let him fight till he's 50 for all I care. He's past his prime, for sure, but still holding up as one of the top 30 or 40 pros in the world. That should be good enough for anyone. 

[Yamanashi 3,829]

4 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Basho and a half.  

Match of the day, IMO, was Enho vs Kotoshogiku.     The latter's bump and push didn't work on Enho.   

I had a revelation watching Kotoshogiku fail at gaburi-yori against Enho: Kotoshogiku's a little shorter (5'10") than many of his opponents, so he can "lift up" with his belly and dig them out like a spatula.  Enho's center of mass is always below Koto's belly, so it's pointless to try bumpety-bumping him.

[Rainoyama 1,157]

Chiyotairyu lost to Goeido and is having a nightmare basho 2-9 so far, in addition to that he was bleeding quite a lot from his mouth after the bout. Despite all that he was still in a good mood when he talked to the journalists.

"I'm going to the hospital because the bleeding doesn't stop. I hate this kind of injury, it's a really small one but it's so annoying. It's the worst, I can't eat food." He told the journalists after his bath- he was still bleeding at the time.

He looked with a mirror in the changing room and said the cause of the bleeding is a nasty cut on the inside of the upper lip. "I'll train and forge my lips ahead of next basho" he joked

"2-9... Let's go eat some meat. I know full well it'll re-open the wound but it's how I'll make my lips stonger. I'll have some liver, a portion for 5" he joked some more https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201909180000784.html

Edited September 18, 2019 by Rainoyama

[Koorifuu 977]

3 hours ago, Houmanumi said:

It can be two things.

It was, I didn't deny it. It's just that 2010-Kotoshogiku would definitely chug 2019-Enho out of the dohyo in a single breath if the small man went forward for the mawashi on tachiai like he did yesterday. It's still impressive that Enho can pull those technical moves, but the fact he was enabled to do so in the first place doesn't bode well for Giku.

And I also agree with other comments in here which say Kotoshogiku has had bad basho recently and recovered somewhat from them. It might happen again, yes, but its likelihood decreases every month.

This is coming from someone who was extremely happy back in the day when Giku was the one to break the Japanese duck instead of Kisenosato.

[Nantonoyama 249]

57 minutes ago, Morty said:

Terunofuji says "Hi" from Makushita for example

Terunofuji has droped by sitting out of tournaments, not by piling-up make-koshi records.

It seems fine as long as he only gets kachi-koshi records on his way back. Hard to predict what kind of reactions and criticism he might get if in one of the upcoming tournaments he gets a make-koshi record as a "too low" rank

[Akinomaki 40,328]

8 minutes ago, Nantonoyama said:

Terunofuji has droped by sitting out of tournaments, not by piling-up make-koshi records.

It seems fine as long as he only gets kachi-koshi records on his way back. Hard to predict what kind of reactions and criticism he might get if in one of the upcoming tournaments he gets a make-koshi record as a "too low" rank

But if a loss against Enho is that, then losing to a plain sandanme like Daishosei  is utterly unacceptable for an ex-ozeki

[d_golem 213]

I want Takakeisho to win the basho.

I hated him when he first got promoted to Makuuchi, mainly because I viewed him as the main rival of my then-favourite Ura, and also because of that one dame-oshi that almost caused a bad leg injury to Ura. I’m ashamed to admit that I made my feelings about that incident quite clear in this forum at the time.

However, I can’t deny he’s been growing on me lately, he always show a lot of heart and his sumo is the real deal.

I hope he wins this basho and be around as an Ozeki or a Yokozuna for a long time. Also here’s hoping Ura will have a chance to face him again in the top division.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

I had a revelation watching Kotoshogiku fail at gaburi-yori against Enho: Kotoshogiku's a little shorter (5'10") than many of his opponents, so he can "lift up" with his belly and dig them out like a spatula.  Enho's center of mass is always below Koto's belly, so it's pointless to try bumpety-bumping him.

Interesting that you say that, because my first thought when they were standing at the shikiri-sen was that Kotoshogiku seemed much smaller than I expected. Usually Enho looks tiny in comparison to his opponent, but today he didn’t. Width-wise, yes, but I didn’t have any great sense of disparity, and I suppose it was all in the height.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

50 minutes ago, Nantonoyama said:

Terunofuji has droped by sitting out of tournaments, not by piling-up make-koshi records.

Yes and no. He entered and then withdrew from six* straight tournaments in his fall from Ozeki to mid-Juryo. Three of those tournaments ended with legit makekoshi (i.e. He fought and lost at least eight bouts, rather than MKd because of missed bouts.) After that he started sitting out whole basho.

 

*Five involved kyujo, actually. The other one was a full 15-day appearance with a 6-9 makekoshi, but for easier phrasing I just counted it among the six.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Eikokurai