UDH Kyushu Basho 2019

[Tamanaogijima 756]

Hello gamers,

the UDH entry form is ready now, and waiting for your selections. Rules in a (very small) nutshell: Guess the thirteen makuuchi rikishi you expect to have the fewest wins this basho.

You may submit your entry at http://udh.seisa.de/udh_index.html.

Once you have selected your team, please root for them as much as you can. The game was not intended to honor any failure, but to stimulate interest in the less successful rikishi.

The deadline for your entries will be the first day of the basho (Sunday, November 10th) at 12pm Japanese Time.

Good luck!

 

Link to the latest available standings >>> http://udh.seisa.de/udh_stand.html

[Tamanaogijima 756]

Selection Stats

Day 1 Standings

Day 2 Standings

Day 3 Standings

Day 4 Standings

Day 5 Standings

Day 6 Standings

Day 7 Standings

Day 8 Standings

Day 9 Standings

Day 10 Standings

Day 11 Standings

Day 12 Standings

Day 13 Standings

Day 14 Standings

Final Standings

Edited November 24, 2019 by Tamanaogijima

[Tamanaogijima 756]

Here we go...

The "Towanoyama rule" has come into effect once more with Kakuryu being on the day 1 torikumi but (probably) not literally active in this basho. Being on the day 1 torikumi he counts as active for the game, though, and will not be replaced by a alternate pick.

Selection Stats

Day 1 Standings

[Rocks 1,809]

10 minutes ago, Tamanaogijima said:

Being on the day 1 torikumi he counts as active for the game, though, and will not be replaced by a alternate pick.

And 9 people have him at 6. I guess that game is over with.  Thanks for the game. 

[Ganzohnesushi 516]

5 minutes ago, Rocks said:

And 9 people have him at 6. I guess that game is over with.  Thanks for the game. 

Could be... but you never know. These nine will not automatically cover ranks 1-9 after Senshuraku. But of course it will be tough to beat them.

Ganzohnesushi

[Tamanaogijima 756]

Day 2 Standings

[Tamanaogijima 756]

Day 3 Standings

Out of the ten people who have Kakuryu in their lineup (9x6pts, 1x4pts) there are two in make-koshi territory right now, a third one is at a narrow 8-7. The other seven are in double-digit kachi-koshi territory, though.

[Rocks 1,809]

13 minutes ago, Tamanaogijima said:

Day 3 Standings

Out of the ten people who have Kakuryu in their lineup (9x6pts, 1x4pts) there are two in make-koshi territory right now, a third one is at a narrow 8-7. The other seven are in double-digit kachi-koshi territory, though.

Early days. The advantage will accumulate over time. No matter where those 9 are now they are in reality 12-18 points higher than that as everyone else is bound to get at least 2 or 3 more wins with their 6 pick.

If I had to guess I would say it will probably be at least a 24 point advantage by the end. 

[just_some_guy 278]

It's always a conundrum whether to take a Yokozuna in this game. Seems like either they go kyujo early and they're the best pick or they go 13-2 and you feel like a doofus for taking them.

[Akinomaki 40,508]

10 hours ago, just_some_guy said:

It's always a conundrum whether to take a Yokozuna in this game. Seems like either they go kyujo early and they're the best pick or they go 13-2 and you feel like a doofus for taking them.

This game has the odd rule that those who are in the right time zone can still correct their pick when they see the kyujo announcement. The deadline has to be set to 5 a.m. JST, before the morning papers appear online,  instead of way past the start of the lower div. action of day 1.

Edit: the first report from Kyodo was at 9:54h, that NHK news at noon are the first to report it is a thing of the past

Edited November 13, 2019 by Akinomaki

[Tamanaogijima 756]

Day 4 Standings

[Tamanaogijima 756]

21 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

This game has the odd rule that those who are in the right time zone can still correct their pick when they see the kyujo announcement. The deadline has to be set to 5 a.m. JST, before the morning papers appear online,  instead of way past the start of the lower div. action of day 1.

Edit: the first report from Kyodo was at 9:54h, that NHK news at noon are the first to report it is a thing of the past

Sounds like a sane rule change.

I must admit that me being short before bedtime (or at least tired enough to not browse through the internet) when the morning papers appear I have never been aware or cared when exactly the reports appear.

[Pitinosato 120]

In my opinion everybody in a game should have the same opportunities, independent of the place where they live 

Pitinosato 

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

3 hours ago, Pitinosato said:

In my opinion everybody in a game should have the same opportunities, independent of the place where they live 

Pitinosato 

Yeah, as this game only involves Makuuchi rikishi, why not make the deadline later in the interests of fairness?

[Akinomaki 40,508]

7 hours ago, Pandaazuma said:

Yeah, as this game only involves Makuuchi rikishi, why not make the deadline later in the interests of fairness?

It is a pre-basho game - the basho starts at 8a.m. on day 1 - that has to be the latest deadline in the interest of fairness

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

It is a pre-basho game - the basho starts at 8a.m. on day 1 - that has to be the latest deadline in the interest of fairness

Erm, it only involves Makuuchi rikishi who start at 4:10ish so what the hell difference would it make? Kyuji announcements tend to come out late morning (i.e. after 8am) and it absolutely is NOT fair to those in unfavourable time zones. I have Kakuryu at 6 this basho but I wasn't happy putting him there, knowing that I would have an unfair advantage. I would much prefer everyone to have a chance to change their lads.

[Rocks 1,809]

6 hours ago, Pandaazuma said:

Erm, it only involves Makuuchi rikishi who start at 4:10ish so what the hell difference would it make? Kyuji announcements tend to come out late morning (i.e. after 8am) and it absolutely is NOT fair to those in unfavourable time zones. I have Kakuryu at 6 this basho but I wasn't happy putting him there, knowing that I would have an unfair advantage. I would much prefer everyone to have a chance to change their lads.

You know what would be fair? Not counting Kakuryu as a choice. This isn't really a problem of when the deadline is or time zones. And it really isn't enough to say  "Well, everybody has a chance to make that change so it's fair." I wasn't around for the discussion of the  "Towanoyama rule" but it's a little hard to believe the decision came down to "Sure, it's okay" to allow something which is the equivalent of knowing who the Yusho winner is going to be. Would anyone suggest if there was one rikishi that was guaranteed to win the Yusho or win EVERY SINGLE DAY that the choice of him would be part of a game? Imagine the impact on say Salary Cap. Or any other game for that matter. 

Yes, late kyojo are a fact of life and have a big impact on Daily Games but there isn't much to be done there. There are only so many hours in a day, you need to allow as many as possible for picks to be made. Considering  at best you have 20 hours and everyone is sleeping for 8 of those you have to have as late a deadline as reasonable. Being Daily Games their impact is blunted. It's not like it gives a guaranteed win for the rest of the basho. In most cases the injured rikishi stops being a pick . The only one I can think of that allows it is Bench and Sumo game and at least bench has the choice of Auto-Henka.

Having that advantage in a Daily game may win you a day or 2 and missing  it may cost you the yusho. But it never amounts to the difference between a Top 10 and a MK. Which is what is happening here.10th place in UDH is usually around 20 points or less from getting a 7-8. Anyone changing to Kakuryu here pretty much guaranteed they won't MK and will very likely Top 10 barring pretty poor choices. That's far too great an impact to have to allow people to choose to do that without any risk whatsoever.

It's one thing to allow people to make bad choices, like Ichinojo in Salary Cap this basho as an example,  and say they must live with that in games with no substitutes.  It's quite another to say "You know who's gonna win? Sure, go ahead and make him your top pick." That isn't just an unfair advantage, it's a decisive advantage. 

I'm not suggesting that Kakuryu not count for this basho though. The Rules in place are the rules in place and should be adhered to. But it's pretty stunning to me a "Towanoyama rule" even exists. I guess I knew in the back off my mind when the deadline was and that changes can be made up till then. But I never made the connection somehow. I doubt I would have changed it anyway. Certainly I would have if money was on the line though. 

[Akinomaki 40,508]

The deadline of UDH is that of Hoshitori - the rule is from a time when NHK news at noon were the first to report a sudden day 1 kyujo. The rule for both games is surely meant to exclude and not encourage cheating to be done by everyone. To bring the games up to date with the 21st century, the deadline should be set to at least 8a.m., better 5a.m., because that's when the first news of the day appear. The advantage for Hoshitori is not as big as here, but with the multitude of kyujo, to save your replacement for later is also there a considerable plus. Both games need an adjustment of deadline. GTB even has a one week backdated deadline to exclude cheating.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Akinomaki

[Athenayama 1,041]

36 minutes ago, Rocks said:

You know what would be fair? Not counting Kakuryu as a choice. This isn't really a problem of when the deadline is or time zones. And it really isn't enough to say  "Well, everybody has a chance to make that change so it's fair." I wasn't around for the discussion of the  "Towanoyama rule" but it's a little hard to believe the decision came down to "Sure, it's okay" to allow something which is the equivalent of knowing who the Yusho winner is going to be. Would anyone suggest if there was one rikishi that was guaranteed to win the Yusho or win EVERY SINGLE DAY that the choice of him would be part of a game? Imagine the impact on say Salary Cap. Or any other game for that matter. .................................

 

100% in agreement with what  @Rocks wrote here above (I cut the quote not to take too much space).

I believe deadline is not really the issue here . In a pre-basho game, a Rikishi going kyujo before the start of the basho should not be in position to be picked, even if already in torikumi. Nothing more to do now but to be taken in consideration for the near future. That's my humble opinion.

[Akinomaki 40,508]

1 hour ago, Athenayama said:

100% in agreement with what  @Rocks wrote here above (I cut the quote not to take too much space).

I believe deadline is not really the issue here . In a pre-basho game, a Rikishi going kyujo before the start of the basho should not be in position to be picked, even if already in torikumi. Nothing more to do now but to be taken in consideration for the near future. That's my humble opinion.

Kakuryu was not kyujo before the basho - he went kyujo on day 1, in the morning, but already after the start of the basho. Using information of day 1 in a pre-basho game should be made impossible - that's all.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Akinomaki

[Tamanaogijima 756]

Day 5 Standings

[Tamanaogijima 756]

27 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Kakuryu was not kyujo before the basho - he went kyujo on day 1, in the morning, but already after the start of the basho. Using information of day 1 in a pre-basho game should be made impossible - that's all.

That pretty much sums it up what I have in mind. As I read from your [everybody in this thread, not only the man quoted] responses, 4 or 5 A.M. JST should be early enough to close the gates?

Edited November 14, 2019 by Tamanaogijima

[Yubinhaad 11,697]

I found it hilarious to have to remove Kakuryu from the top slot in my Hoshitori entry and add him to the same place in my UDH entry. That was a new one.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

5 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The deadline of UDH is that of Hoshitori - the rule is from a time when NHK news at noon were the first to report a sudden day 1 kyujo. The rule for both games is surely meant to exclude and not encourage cheating to be done by everyone. To bring the games up to date with the 21st century, the deadline should be set to at least 8a.m., better 5a.m., because that's when the first news of the day appear. The advantage for Hoshitori is not as big as here, but with the multitude of kyujo, to save your replacement for later is also there a considerable plus. Both games need an adjustment of deadline. GTB even has a one week backdated deadline to exclude cheating.

I'm all for that as long as the replacements worked in the same manner as in Paper Oyakata. The replacements are usually lads who you would expect to get 7-8 and who you are not at all certain about as all the obvious ones will be in the main line-up. If your 6-slot lad pulls out, you'll end up with someone you never would have wanted so high for the entire game, which is almost as catastrophic. The PO system blunts the loss of a key pick greatly. It would just become more of a lottery without it, which would be sad, as UDH is a nice little tactical game. In Hoshitori there are always a few decent candidates for replacements because of all the ginboshi/kinboshi bonuses etc., but in UDH there are no such bonuses.

Incidentally, it was amusing to see you use the word 'cheating', which is a pretty damning thing to say to those who simply followed the rules. It's an unfair advantage due to the time zones, which is why it should be changed to a fairer system, but to call those who changed their picks legitimately with new information before the official deadline 'cheats' is a bit silly.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

4 hours ago, Tamanaogijima said:

That pretty much sums it up what I have in mind. As I read from your [everybody in this thread, not only the man quoted] responses, 4 or 5 A.M. JST should be early enough to close the gates?

But the 'basho' in question is the MAKUUCHI basho, not the WHOLE basho. Bingo waits until the first Makuuchi lad sets foot on the dohyo, as does/did FS. Not only does this allow people extra time to get their picks in, it also allows them to react to new information. Making it close before the 8am midgets start fighting in the early morning will only make some tournaments meaningless for many players. They won't even check the standings or final results, knowing they are completely out of it.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Pandaazuma