2019 Kyushu Basho Discussion (spoiler alert)

[Gabriel 13]

1 hour ago, nelimw said:

Chiyomaru got lucky today. His his left foot stepped out before Sadanoumi landed out. Was I the only one to see that? 

Yes, but one you noticed it to us, it was quite clear, I think.

[dada78641 884]

They showed some pictures of Kisenosato's danpatsu-shiki. Of course it was a while back but figured I'd make some screenshots.

[Akinomaki 40,594]

2 hours ago, nelimw said:

Chiyomaru got lucky today. His his left foot stepped out before Sadanoumi landed out. Was I the only one to see that? 

The papers spotted it - looks just like isami-ashi, but since no shimpan objected, we had no chance to hear something indicating a shinitai in a mono-ii explanation. Chiyomaru was too quick to have them doubt his win, but the dead body rule is usually not used when a rikishi is driven out and not falling down. They (Nishikido's crew) simply gave the win to the attacker.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Akinomaki

[Rocks 1,809]

3 hours ago, Giku Squad said:

Even though we saw Asanoyama lose, we still go to see how well he can fight someone larger than he is at the bales. Impressive sumo from the kid still, in my opinion. 

I really thought he would win easily today. Mitakeumi seems to get very pumped for their matches though. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Rocks

[Sumo_da 34]

This is typical Mitakeumi again, his sumo being mostly a mess and suddenly he beats one of the best yotsu wrestlers (currently) by yorikiri. 

[Dwale 419]

2 hours ago, maorencze said:

I guess Mitakeumi's sight is impaired by the damage received, and that limits his oshi ability - to strike properly you need to be able to land, and with only one eye properly working one's depth/distance perception is completely thrown off, meaning the precision when trying to strike is lost. When you grab the belt though, this problem is instantly negated, so... easy choice for him

 

Chiyomaru was so overwhelming in that bout, he fully deserved that win. Sadanoumi was shinitai for sure 

That is feasible. I certainly hope his eye isn't that bad, but it might be.

You weren't talking to me, but I agree about Chiyomaru. Sadanoumi got rag-dolled, there is no world in which he can be given the win for that match.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

Hakuho is really dialled in at this point in the tournament.  With a two-win cushion, it is difficult for me to see a scenario where he loses this championship.  

Meanwhile, his two deshi are doing their best to get their KKs.  Ishiura moved to one win away from his KK, with three days to go.  I'm a little concerned about Enho, who needs two more wins for his KK.  He always seems disappointed with himself when he loses a bout.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

10 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Most wins of the year now will at best equal the all time low of 56 - Asanoyama only leads by 1, Abi could easily finish with the same number in the end. The yusho race will only reopen again if Hakuho gets injured.

What happens when there is a tie?  If there is prize money associated with the honour, is it halved or do both wrestlers get the full amount?  And my follow-up question is how many times in the past has their been a tie?

[Kaminariyuki 499]

5 hours ago, Churaumi said:

If one wrestler pushes another out of the ring but the other wrestler is airborne, if the pusher steps out first he still wins because the airborne wrestler can’t touch down inside the ring. It is uncommon and very subjective. It’s called “shinitai,” I believe.

But this is not always followed. Otherwise, Ura would be looking at a zensho yusho in Jonidan.

[Kaminariyuki 499]

4 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Ishiura seems to have been working on his leg game. I’m guessing he’s seen it work for Enho and decided to take a leaf from his stablemate’s playbook. At least, I don’t recall him going low and reaching for knees and thighs this much in the past. Good to see. His sumo has been one-dimensional (and not in a successful Takakeisho sort of way) for too long.

Wow, I'd never noticed that Ishiura was also Myagino. Three of my favorite rikishi in one beya. I absolutely must visit and bring the boys some treats (I understand this is part of the custom during a beya visit).

[Akinomaki 40,594]

16 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

What happens when there is a tie?  If there is prize money associated with the honour, is it halved or do both wrestlers get the full amount?  And my follow-up question is how many times in the past has their been a tie?

There is a prize money from the paper that sponsors the award, 2 times in the past there was a tie (1967 and 1970), but I have no idea if they split the money then - usually not, just like a sansho. https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/年間最多勝#年間最多勝力士一覧

Edited November 21, 2019 by Akinomaki

[dada78641 884]

Black eye.

I liked this shot of the arena just before the final bout:

Still quite a few seats empty, here and there.

Hakuho vs Endo:

Blood on Hakuho's chest:

[Gospodin 191]

In a different sport Hakuho would have been flagged for unnecessary roughness. To those with more knowledge: did he intentionally target Endo´s chin with that kachiage or was it coincidence (i.e. Endo leaning forward to avoid being put into an upright position, and getting hit) ?

[Joaoiyama 308]

14 minutes ago, Gospodin said:

In a different sport Hakuho would have been flagged for unnecessary roughness. To those with more knowledge: did he intentionally target Endo´s chin with that kachiage or was it coincidence (i.e. Endo leaning forward to avoid being put into an upright position, and getting hit) ?

That is precisely what he did/is doing this whole basho and it's legal, let's not forget the great powerhouse that is Hakuho with bad intentions just handing out decapitating kachiage.
 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Joaoiyama

[dingo 1,265]

12 minutes ago, Gospodin said:

In a different sport Hakuho would have been flagged for unnecessary roughness. To those with more knowledge: did he intentionally target Endo´s chin with that kachiage or was it coincidence (i.e. Endo leaning forward to avoid being put into an upright position, and getting hit) ?

That seemed fully intentional to me, he even pushed the forearm further into his face. A bit disgraceful from Hakuho in my mind. And you can say all you want that it's a legal move but I'd like to see one rikishi who would dare to do it against Hakuho himself. So it's not quite even standards, is it? 

[Gospodin 191]

It is just that I cannot remember a kachiage used to intentionally stun an opponent. That didn´t look right to me

[Akinomaki 40,594]

32 minutes ago, Gospodin said:

In a different sport Hakuho would have been flagged for unnecessary roughness.

Here we have the YDC - they likely rejoice that they can dish Hakuho another demand on Monday to stop the kachiage. I wonder what they will threaten him with to have the effect last longer this time.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Akinomaki

[Churaumi 743]

1 hour ago, Kaminariyuki said:

But this is not always followed. Otherwise, Ura would be looking at a zensho yusho in Jonidan.

That’s why I said it was highly subjective. A lot of the times the shinpan use the rule or don’t use it are controversial.

[Rocks 1,809]

47 minutes ago, Gospodin said:

In a different sport Hakuho would have been flagged for unnecessary roughness. To those with more knowledge: did he intentionally target Endo´s chin with that kachiage or was it coincidence (i.e. Endo leaning forward to avoid being put into an upright position, and getting hit) ?

That really wasn't that bad. It didn't really connect. Hakuho's arm to the side of the head is just as much from Endo pushing his arm up as from Hakuho trowing his arm. The bloody nose is actually from the slap to Endo's face that comes later.  Endo really isn't stunned here. His holding his head down is all about the bloody nose I think. 

Hakuho has done this pretty egregiously in the past but not here IMO.

[Joaoiyama 308]

Hakuho being the dai yokozuna shouldn't, in the eyes fo the YDC, use such techniques. He gets flagged for it from time to time but never fully abandon's the move nor his stubbornness.

Weather it's right or wrong for a Yokozuna to strike is based on opinion, still it has been controversial since the times of Maedayama. 

[Umizoi 27]

1 hour ago, Rocks said:

That really wasn't that bad. It didn't really connect. Hakuho's arm to the side of the head is just as much from Endo pushing his arm up as from Hakuho trowing his arm. The bloody nose is actually from the slap to Endo's face that comes later.  Endo really isn't stunned here. His holding his head down is all about

Hakuho has done this pretty egregiously in the past but not here IMO.

I agree. all his opponents know the combinaison harite + kachiage used by Hakuho. No surprise.

Personnaly i think he does it to preserve himself from head to head

They all know the little bowing he does before tachiai too. So no reasons for Matta.

 

but, in this bout, it was a vicious slap at the end, not sure the hand was so open... he wants this basho, for sure ;)

Edited November 21, 2019 by Umizoi

[CT3* 331]

1 hour ago, dingo said:

That seemed fully intentional to me, he even pushed the forearm further into his face. A bit disgraceful from Hakuho in my mind. And you can say all you want that it's a legal move but I'd like to see one rikishi who would dare to do it against Hakuho himself. So it's not quite even standards, is it? 

Nothing is stopping a rikishi from employing the tactic against Hakuho. Would they dare? That is the only question.

I vaguely recall Osunaarashi trying it against Hakuho, but I may be wrong.

[Jabbamaru 167]

What i mean - Elkokurai san - is;  its a little weird to say; "this f* rolling pinguim is being malicious with all that tape, poor aites!” and at the same time; "yeah...let those fat boys die early by an insane diet for our amusement, that sounds cool"...Im mean...cmon.

 

....

 

IMHO The Hakman X Pretty Face Endō was the best fight of Kyusho 2019. I know its a very particular opinion...Not much hinkaku...But i love when the daizuna embodies Kublai HaKhanho and i love seeing The pretty boy getting screwed...So...Was kind of an perfect bout to me.

 

...

Ishiuraaaa gambateeeeex! That's it man! Less henka; more awesome kimarite! keep on keeping on, mf*!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dwale 419]

32 minutes ago, CT3* said:

Nothing is stopping a rikishi from employing the tactic against Hakuho. Would they dare? That is the only question.

I vaguely recall Osunaarashi trying it against Hakuho, but I may be wrong.

I don't remember if he did, but he would. He was just like that.

Slapping Hakuho would a good way to ensure you get "the treatment." I think most rikishi would sooner not.

[Gabriel 13]

2 hours ago, dingo said:

That seemed fully intentional to me, he even pushed the forearm further into his face. A bit disgraceful from Hakuho in my mind. And you can say all you want that it's a legal move but I'd like to see one rikishi who would dare to do it against Hakuho himself. So it's not quite even standards, is it? 

I remember one similar case in a fight between Asashoryu and Kotooshu, when the last one got also KOed.