2019 Kyushu Basho Discussion (spoiler alert)

[Yamanashi 3,854]

5 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

More to make it appeal to people with short attention spans/youngsters. It’s the trend now to make everything shorter. One day sumo bouts will only last a few seconds. Oh wait ...

To be fair, the bouts  only take a few seconds.  It's the three minutes of stamping 'n' throwing 'n' glaring that would make short-attention-span viewers go numb.

In that respect, Sumo is very much like baseball: a lot of ritualized behavior punctuated by intense action.  Also, they both do a lot of grabbing and adjusting in the crotchal region [no wime sayin?]

[rhyen 1,842]

23 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

 

As much as I'd like to be able to see a superstar like him continue to demonstrate his prowess, I believe he will hang up his shimekomi at the end of next year once he presumably breaks Chiyonofuji's record for Top Division championship at the oldest age...  

 

Caveat: as a Yokozuna, if it is outright oldest, that honour goes to Kyokutenho at 37 years ++

[Amamaniac 2,079]

2 minutes ago, rhyen said:

23 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

 

As much as I'd like to be able to see a superstar like him continue to demonstrate his prowess, I believe he will hang up his shimekomi at the end of next year once he presumably breaks Chiyonofuji's record for Top Division championship at the oldest age...  

 

Caveat: as a Yokozuna, if it is outright oldest, that honour goes to Kyokutenho at 37 years ++

I should have said "as a Yokozuna".  Those familiar with Hakuho's publicly-stated "goal" would already know that was implied.  But those new to the Forum might get the wrong idea.

But thanks for catching that.  And I always like being reminded of Kyokutenho's yusho.  That was the last tournament I saw while living in Tokyo.  Good times.

[Akinomaki 40,594]

3 hours ago, Morty said:

Given the choice between test cricket and sumo it would be a really hard decision but I'd take cricket. I love the fact that in this day and age you can have a game that goes for five days and can still end in a draw 

You might guess one reason why my other favorite sport is ski jumping - close to sumo in average length of time needed to decide one fight - let's say against the wind

Edited November 24, 2019 by Akinomaki

[Amamaniac 2,079]

15 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

You might guess one reason why my other favorite sport is ski jumping - close to sumo in average length of time needed to decide one fight - let's say against the wind

I've yet to see a ski jump that lasted as long as Hakuho's bout against today (i.e., 72.5s), but if you do spot one like that, please contact me. 

[Akinomaki 40,594]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

I've yet to see a ski jump that lasted as long as Hakuho's bout against today (i.e., 72.5s), but if you do spot one like that, please contact me. 

Abema the other day showed the sports with the shortest average time, sumo had 8s - and ski jumping is a full 50% longer than that - it's only the variance that differs. And there are jumps that really last: those who drop down early, they lose the ski and have to walk the rest of the distance. And the (wind) matta really make it last for ages sometimes.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Akinomaki

[sahaven111 176]

I don't know where to put this, but i heard it on a honbasho video on youtube the other day, if anyone, which rikishi's uncle was the prime minister/president of mongolia?

[Amamaniac 2,079]

18 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Abema the other day showed the sports with the shortest average time, sumo had 8s - and ski jumping is a full 50% longer than that - it's only the variance that differs. And there are jumps that really last: those who drop down early, the ski get lose and they have to walk the rest of the distance. And the (wind) matta really make it last for ages sometimes.

I can see that you are a true fan of ski jumping.  And I bow to your passion!

But just for the record, matta don't count in the bout (actual fight) time.  Anyway, I was just joking around comparing Hakuho's marathon bout with how long ski jumpers spend in the air...

Edited November 24, 2019 by Amamaniac

[Dwale 419]

I was up late enough last night to live stream those lower-division playoffs, which was entertaining, but I had to sleep, so I didn't get to makuuchi until I woke up.

Well. For a basho that started out crazy, it had kind of an anti-climactic end, at least in makuuchi. But we had some good stuff, like Enho's surprise kachi-koshi. One nice thing about sumo is there are so many participants, and so many permutations of match-ups, that you're bound to see something that floats your boat. Some basho are more entertaining than others, but I never walk away feeling like I should have watched something else. Sumo remains awesome.

And so I bid you all adieu. 'Til next time.

[Akinomaki 40,594]

The traditional kick from uncle Asashoryu came late, but not too late to at least save Hoshoryu from dropping back to makushita: "I was scolded by mail". He congratulated Hakuho in the shitaku-beya for the yusho and received the answer "Next basho again, won't it?" http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201911240000432.html

[Rocks 1,809]

5 hours ago, Morty said:

Wrestling for the sake of wrestling rather than to win . There is joy in movement for the sake of movement. There doesn't always need to be a winner.

In those days there was probably more joy in the movement of sake than the sake of movement. 

[robnplunder 975]

10 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

 I had lost some faith that my prediction would really be on the spot, 

Some?  My prediction is worse than a weather forecast that claims 50% chance of rain.  

 

My biggest disappointment of the basho .... Mitakeumi.  

Bright spot - Enho getting KK but I still stand by my "prediction" that he will never be a sanyuku.   Given my prowess of predicting, he has a better than 50% chance of making it.   

[Kotomiyama 172]

My thoughts on three rishiki this basho:

Ishiura - In his first stints in Makuuchi he was an adept to henka. This basho he chose direct confrontation and earned a well deserved KK. Sumo is better with him, Enho and Terutsuyoshi. 

Meisei - Makekoshi to learn. I still see him as a future sanyaku mainstay, but he has to be patient and hone his tools. He might achieve what Endo promised and is yet to deliver.

Abi - Yes, he is weird, unorthodox and nonchalant (note his salt throw). He seems to have only one trick in the bag, but he still manages to win. We all thought he was not going to stay long in sanyaku and he might be sekiwake in January. I cannot root for him, but he has earned my respect. 

[Benevolance 2,501]

I think it's safe to say that Asanoyama is officially looking at his ozeki run next tournament.

[Joaoiyama 308]

27 minutes ago, Kotomiyama said:

My thoughts on three rishiki this basho:

Ishiura - In his first stints in Makuuchi he was an adept to henka. This basho he chose direct confrontation and earned a well deserved KK. Sumo is better with him, Enho and Terutsuyoshi. 

Don't forget Wakatakakage and Kotoeko, together with Juryo's Kiribayama(who will be promoted), Hoshoryu, Tobizaru and lower down Ura comming back.

 

it's the little men era. 

[Gabriel 13]

On 23/11/2019 at 19:17, Tigerboy1966 said:

 

My impressions of this basho:

Hakuho is a beast, but there are not, in my humble opinion, rikishis of the quality Harumafuji has.

Nice Basho from Shohozan, thirty five years and going on.

The best basho I have seen from Ishiura, performig a good amount of nice techniques.

I like Enho, what this man does with his size is simply amazing, three consecutive Kachi Koshi.

Shodai is strong. He recieved a lot of self confidence defeating Asanoyama in the way he did. He needs a bit more of hot blood.

I like Endo very much, his sumo on the belt is as good as the best. he seems to be a bit irregular.

I am happy for Takakeisho performing this level with the recent injury in the pec. He is unidimensional, but a bulldozer.

Abi is effective, but I can not compare his sumo with Endos, for example.

Sorry for Mitakeumi, he has been so erratic this basho.

Asanoyama is strong, but, for the moment, I can not see him as a Yokozuna.

 

[Kaninoyama 1,797]

1 hour ago, Joaoiyama said:

Don't forget Wakatakakage and Kotoeko, together with Juryo's Kiribayama(who will be promoted), Hoshoryu, Tobizaru and lower down Ura comming back.

 

it's the little men era. 

Let's also add Midorifuji, who finished with a 6-1 record in upper Makushita and will be in position to ascend to Juryo with another similar performance in January. 

[Gabriel 13]

I forgot Wakatakakage. Great basho until injury. He seemed to be explosive and agile. We are looking for him to come back as soon as possible.

[serge_gva 52]

23 hours ago, Houmanumi said:

It's interesting because to friends I refer to him as the 'Don Bradman' of Sumo. Bradman was an Australian cricketer who in pure statistics is the greatest sportsman ever to have lived. His average batting score was 6.48 standard deviations higher than the average, and yet outside of cricket playing nations no-one would have a clue who he is. 

Hakuho definitely seems destined for a similar fate, but that's the nature of the sport I suppose.

...What is exactly cricket?

Edited November 25, 2019 by serge_gva

[sekitori 492]

This probably makes no sense, but I think Hakuho was doing Takakeisho a big favor. Once he controlled Takakeisho's mawashi, the match was over. But instead of pushing him off the dohyo right away, he just maintained his position. To some observers, it might appear that Takakesisho was doing something to block Hakuho's forward movement. But the lack of Hakuho's forward progress had nothing to do with Takakeisho's resistance. It was due entirely to Hakuho himself. I think the longer a bout with Hakuho lasts, the more impressive his opponent seems to be. 

I wouldn't doubt that while they were locked together, Hakuho whispered, "Hang in there. You're gonna lose but you stlll will look pretty good". As I said, this idea probably makes no sense but if nothing else, it does sound kind of interesting. 

[Dapeng 235]

1 hour ago, sekitori said:

This probably makes no sense, but I think Hakuho was doing Takakeisho a big favor. Once he controlled Takakeisho's mawashi, the match was over. But instead of pushing him off the dohyo right away, he just maintained his position. To some observers, it might appear that Takakesisho was doing something to block Hakuho's forward movement. But the lack of Hakuho's forward progress had nothing to do with Takakeisho's resistance. It was due entirely to Hakuho himself. I think the longer a bout with Hakuho lasts, the more impressive his opponent seems to be. 

I wouldn't doubt that while they were locked together, Hakuho whispered, "Hang in there. You're gonna lose but you stlll will look pretty good". As I said, this idea probably makes no sense but if nothing else, it does sound kind of interesting. 

Strange indeed. It seems Hakuho was waiting for Takakeisho to counter. After the latter did nothing, he decided to end the game. 

[Dapeng 235]

Hakuho declared that his goal for 2020 is reaching yusho 45, and that his ultimate goal is yusho 50 in 2 to 3 years. With the current weak upper banzuke, yusho 50 is not a dream. 2019 saw the demotion of 3 ozeki, which is very unusual. The only hopeful is Asanoyama. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Dapeng

[Tigerboy1966 1,449]

8 hours ago, Kotomiyama said:

Meisei - Makekoshi to learn. I still see him as a future sanyaku mainstay, but he has to be patient and hone his tools.

This is exactly what Meisei has been doing since he started. He was promoted to makushita on five separate occasions before he managed to establish himself in that division so he knows all about patience and persistence. I think we'll see him get his first sanyaku experience by the end of 2020.

[Akinomaki 40,594]

On 14/11/2019 at 22:57, Akinomaki said:

Mitakeumi is the only one to have 2 yusho at sekiwake - the illustrious list of the others who were not promoted to ozeki right away with a sekiwake yusho shows 4 later yokozuna, 2 ozeki and 2 who peaked at sekiwake: Hasegawa and - Tamawashi, who among them is the only one so far to have a makekoshi after his sekiwake yusho.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=3&form1_rank=s&form1_y=on&form2_rank=s

Mitakeumi has joined Tamawashi now

[maorencze 144]

5 hours ago, serge_gva said:

...What is exactly cricket?

Grasshopper-like bug

What a basho:

No 2S+4K or 3S+3K January for me  sad, very sad, as the result goes, we might very well see 8-man sanyaku next basho if Abi stays at Komusubi

Old guys (with Hakuho being a standard-bearer for elder statesmen in their 30s) are STILL better than most young guns, not many good ones under 27yrs of age, certainly less than there are guys in their 30s; given that, I don't see the change of guards being as imminent as I presumed around Aki 2018. Shame on me for such a bold prediction! And, of course, shame on 20-somethings for not being up to it (just yet). Let's see what Abi, Asanoyama, Hokutofuji and Takakeisho (maybe still even Mitakeumi) can do next yr

Ishiura! Lies! Subterfuge! Mind tricks and SFX! Who are you, crafty little beast of technique, and what have you done with our beloved henka-ing muscular midget! No gino-sho, but that's obviously because NSK wants to set up an investigation committee for this alien-ish body switch 

Terunofuji!!!!

Kotoshogiku 

Last thought based on going through the videos of all his Makuuchi appearances - Enho, guy getting some serious flak for his tachiai, is actually going straight-on in about a third of his bouts, with submarine-charge in other third, so I would say that given his bouts ending with belt-throw or straight push-out about 80-90% of the time, he's definitely worthy of M5-M10 region. Don't see the issue here, there are guys twice as large with worse tachiai habits than Enho, none of them getting such a bad rap