Hatsu 2020 Basho Discussion (SPOILERS)

[Eikokurai 3,437]

18 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Tsurugisho underestimated Kaisei - all other times he knew that he was the one to be underestimated and won all those bouts. And for Kaisei - you don't get a shukun-sho if the winner you had beaten is lower ranked than you - than that one gets the shukun-sho himself, for beating all odds against him.

You’ve done it again. :)

[Koorifuu 999]

10 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Nah, he's not even that. He's just a guy who may be sneaking away with the loot while the old guards are off nursing their wounds and the new guards are still in training. It's a feelgood story that won't have any significant practical implications beyond the current basho.

You know, that's exactly what roughly one year ago I thought Takayasu would be - the man to take the spoils in the period where the old guard got too weary and the upcoming new one was still not there yet - but Tamawashi had other plans.

[Gospodin 191]

19 minutes ago, Gernobono said:

I think, they were 

Can't see any bright future ahead for tokushoryu 

"In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes  two months." Andy Warhol has reached sumo, finally 

Seriously, Tokushoryu took adavantage of a quite unique situation. No yokozuna, badly performing ozeki, a relatively easy first week-schedule, and the top-tier opponents he faced didn´t know him well, probably. Not to take anything away from his success - after all he won those 14 matches - but I also cannot imagine him holding his own even in mid-maegashira over more than two bashos.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Gospodin

[Koorifuu 999]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

M13e Kotoshogiku rallied in the last three days of this tournament.  He had what looked like a career-busting 4-8 record, but with three straight wins at the end, he walks away with a not too shabby 7-8 record, essentially saving himself from demotion to Juryo in March.  But more importantly, his win on the final day tied him with the great Takanohana with 701 Top Division wins (i.e., 9th place)!

He is now within striking distance of the records held by Musashimaru (706), Harumafuji (712), and Kisenosato (714).  However, moving past Kisenosato will probably take him at least two tournaments.

As much as I'd love to see Kotoshogiku climbing up the table, I'm not sure if he still has 13 makuuchi shiroboshi in him.

Although, to be very fair, his decline in lower maegashira has been slower than I expected and I'm probably not the only one. Who knows?

-------

Completely different topic:

I thought the writing was on the wall for Goeido after his battle against Okinoumi. A clear and deserved shitatenage victory got tottari turned into a loss (...sorry) simply because he chickened out at the "who's getting faceplanted later" duel..

Personally that's when I noticed he didn't have it in him anymore.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Koorifuu

[lackmaker 437]

On 12/01/2020 at 20:59, Amamaniac said:

And while I'm on the topic, who will the most likely candidate be for Rookie of the Year in 2020?  Kiribayama has his foot in the door, so to say.

Maybe not the biggest news of the tournament but he's surely the frontrunner.

[Rainoyama 1,157]

I don't know if this is the place and if it has been reported here before but Chris Gould on youtube is reporting that Goiedo is seriously considering retirement, as well as veteran Toyonoshima down in juryo. We should have announcements coming in the next few days.

[shumitto 418]

10 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Nah, he's not even that. He's just a guy who may be sneaking away with the loot while the old guards are off nursing their wounds and the new guards are still in training. It's a feelgood story that won't have any significant practical implications beyond the current basho.

Yup. In the west it would probably help boost that mushy, over-honeyed narrative that "you can get it if you truly want it", although I don't what the Japanese media will make out of it other than enjoy this ride for a while.

Anyway, for every Tokushoryu out there, there are hundreds of Tokushoryu-like people coming away empty-handed. 

[Akinomaki 40,485]

47 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

You’ve done it again. :)

If have this serious problem with names - in any language - they lack meaning. I looked for a nice translation of the proper German phrase on this by some old expert, but "name is sound and smoke" is not very satisfying.

[Kintamayama 45,117]

Goueidou is undecided about his future. "He will decide in a day or 2 in a formal way," said his oyakata. 

[Gospodin 191]

59 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

If have this serious problem with names - in any language - they lack meaning. I looked for a nice translation of the proper German phrase on this by some old expert, but "name is sound and smoke" is not very satisfying.

If my memory serves me well, "What´s in a name ?" is the translation you are looking for

[code_number3 704]

NHK Sumo's hatsu basho ending montage

 

 

[code_number3 704]

1 hour ago, Rainoyama said:

I don't know if this is the place and if it has been reported here before but Chris Gould on youtube is reporting that Goiedo is seriously considering retirement, as well as veteran Toyonoshima down in juryo. We should have announcements coming in the next few days.

I hope Goeido will stay one last basho in Osaka, a sayonara to home crowd

[Fede 45]

Well, I've seen the final bout at least 10 times. Amazing.

Sometimes you can live a fable in the life and this is the case.
I think these things are good for Sumo (and for every sport). It brings the sport closer to the people and to the youngsters.
You can have a chance, even if you are not a winner. 

Tokushoryu has an uncommon sense of humor also. Well done lad.

Today Ura won the Jonidan. Great day. HAHAHA 

[Yamanashi 3,840]

53 minutes ago, Fede said:

Well, I've seen the final bout at least 10 times. Amazing.

Sometimes you can live a fable in the life and this is the case.
I think these things are good for Sumo (and for every sport). It brings the sport closer to the people and to the youngsters.
You can have a chance, even if you are not a winner. 

Tokushoryu has an uncommon sense of humor also. Well done lad.

Today Ura won the Jonidan. Great day. HAHAHA 

Is it too early to get on the "Break up Kise stable" bandwagon?

[serge_gva 52]

18 hours ago, Rocks said:

Good news is the same situation means he'll be in prime position for promotion next basho. If Goeido doesn't get his 10 wins 10 could do it for Asanaoyama. Otherwise 11. With 4 double digit basho in a row, a yusho, and the depletion of the Ozeki ranks I don't see how they deny him.

It's really going to have to be 10 very great wins, then. I don't see him promoted with 31 wins (2 less than the guideline), because he won't have an ascending series (11-10-10) and a he won't have a Yusho-or-similar result in the last-3 to to counterbalance these two shortcomings (11-4 J but 3 wins behind Hakuho does not count imho). But I agree 11 convincing wins may be OK.

Edited January 26, 2020 by serge_gva

[Rocks 1,809]

2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Goueidou is undecided about his future. "He will decide in a day or 2 in a formal way," said his oyakata. 

Wow. I expected him to at least go for the 10 wins as Sekiwake.

[Akinomaki 40,485]

Have there ever been more than 3 maegashira in the sanyaku soroibumi? I guess 3 has happened before, but I can't imagine there was a basho with 4. And likely the average rank in there was never so low as today.
 

On 26/01/2020 at 17:22, Gospodin said:

If my memory serves me well, "What´s in a name ?" is the translation you are looking for

Yeah, better to use the same wisdom from a similar expert of the other language than to translate.

Tokoshuryu already had a firm place in my "hopelessly mediocre" drawer, while Tsurugisho is in the "potential" folder. I'm lucky that Tokushinho has retired.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Akinomaki

[808morgan 811]

2 hours ago, Rainoyama said:

I don't know if this is the place and if it has been reported here before but Chris Gould on youtube is reporting that Goiedo is seriously considering retirement, as well as veteran Toyonoshima down in juryo. We should have announcements coming in the next few days.

Toyonoshima has always been my guy and I have been really happy for him coming back from that injury as far as he has, I do not like Goeido so he can go go Goeido!

[Wasabeefu 17]

Well there wasn't a playoff, but Shodai did his part to build up the tension, and every part of the ending was satisfying. I wasn't really pulling for either guy this tournament, figured it would be Takakeisho a few days ago.

Nice to see Kaisei and Ikioi hang on from demotion, too bad for Ternofuji though I guess but his final match today didn't look so great. Also nice to see Kotoshogiku pull himself out of the fire and be back for another go around. Enjoyed Enho's look of "you got away with one there" to Kagayaki, like he doesn't beat half of his opponents with a matta. Continuing disappointment from Takayasu, Mitakeumi, and Tochinoshin (except for that match against Enho). Tochinoshin's win 2 years ago seems such a long way away now...I wonder how much longer he will be around.

Nice ending to the basho, but overall it wasn't a great one.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

1 hour ago, Fede said:

Today Ura won the Jonidan. Great day. HAHAHA 

Like many an Ura fan, I was happy to see him win the playoff bout today.  But, what wasn't quite as reassuring as that win was the look on his face as he squatted ringside waiting for his yusho certificate.  He looked to be seriously uncomfortable, if not in considerable pain.  Unlike Terunofuji, Ura's knees appear to be far from better.  I hope that he can follow Terunofuji's example and shoot back up the banzuke, but I'm not holding my breath!

[ryafuji 814]

36 minutes ago, serge_gva said:

It's really going to have to be 10 very great wins, then. I don't see him promoted with 31 wins (2 less than the guideline), because he won't have an ascending series (11-10-10) and a he won't have a Yusho-or-similar result in the last-3 to to counterbalance these two shortcomings (11-4 J but 3 wins behind Hakuho does not count imho). But I agree 11 convincing wins may be OK.

Don’t forget, there will be only one ozeki next basho. The standards are loosened in such cases. 

[serge_gva 52]

4 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Don’t forget, there will be only one ozeki next basho. The standards are loosened in such cases. 

How long ago was the last more or less comparable case of loosened conditions?

[RabidJohn 1,787]

Re: Tokushoryu's future prospects. His brilliantly unexpected yusho is going to boost him into the joi-jin most likely, where he's going to have a much harder time fighting against all the guys above him. MK is likely, but I would regard a 7-8 or 6-9 as a good result and sign that he has shown some consistent improvement. Gonna be real hard though with all that partying eating into his training time, but hopefully he can carry forward some confidence at the manner in which he took his yusho. That was very good offensive yotsu against a very strong ozeki.

That's a thing. I remember posting a year or so ago that Takakeisho looked helpless whenever anyone managed to grasp his mawashi, and that he needed to do something about it. I'm not certain his statement about concentrating on his oshizumo was the whole truth. He no longer looks helpless. Witness that 'nage he pulled earlier in the basho, and how did Tokushoryu survive being spun around like that? Takakeisho has been practicing defensive yotsu with someone...

Anyhow, Tokushoryu. He may be at the start of a Tamawashi-like late bloom or he may not. Who knows? One of the great things about sumo is it's unpredictability!

---

Re: Goeido. I'm not surprised by reports of his possibly imminent intai. I thought there was an "I don't want to do this any more" look on his face today. I think it's fair to say he's been the least popular ozeki on this forum during my time here, but he's in the top 10 in terms of career longevity and he's got a zensho yusho to his name, so wtf do we know, eh? He really deserves more respect, and if he decides to go the old fashioned way with the loss of his rank, he deserves it even more. 

[Jakusotsu 5,969]

5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Kotonowaka, son of Sadogatake Oyakata gets his kachikoshi from his highest rank, Juryo 2: "I faced rikishi with high-ranking experience. The fact that I did my own sumo and got those eight wins is huge. The quality was better than last basho when I had 10 wins.."

Judging by the couple of bouts I've seen this basho, I disagree. He seemed much more collected and in control last basho and rather fidgety this time.

[Gurowake 4,052]

32 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Re: Tokushoryu's future prospects. His brilliantly unexpected yusho is going to boost him into the joi-jin most likely,

I'm seeing him being just outside the top 16.  Hakuho, Kakuryu, Takakeisho, Asanoyama, Goeido, Hokutofuji, Endo, Takayasu, Yutakayama, Mitakeumi, Okinoumi, Daieisho, Shodai, and Ryuden (purposely jumbled a bit from the order I expect them in) are clearly ahead of him, I would put Abi and Enho ahead of him as they had full sanyaku schedules and come in around the same place, and Onosho is a close call.  So it may depend on whether Goeido retires whether he'll face the Yokozuna (if they compete).  Certainly if the Yokozuna are out he'll face a full sanyaku schedule.

They clearly don't care recently at all about whether someone wins the yusho in terms of how they rank them.  Asanoyama didn't get a sanyaku spot, but most people would have expected him to in that situation even if he wouldn't have won the yusho.  It went to someone 3 ranks higher with 2 less wins instead, which certainly happens (Takayasu over Mitakeumi after Natsu 2016), but it's clear evidence they just don't care about the yusho for the banzuke. You get your prize money and bonus boost and that's that. 

Edited January 26, 2020 by Gurowake