Atenzan 1,081 Posted January 29, 2020 17 hours ago, Asashosakari said: No immediate replacement for him at the ozeki rank as had been known for several days already, but at least Asanoyama secured a double-digit record against Ryuden on the final day to keep himself in the conversation for next time. Keeping in mind the upcoming banzuke situation, which only seems to be getting worse, I wonder to what extent is Asanoyama in the conversation. The yokozunae aren't getting any younger or healthier, Mitakeumi is six to eight months away from an ozeki run in the best case, and most importantly of all, I personally think the Haru banzuke shall be ugly as hell. Could we see him be promoted on 11 wins in Haru or is it going to be considered too much of a giveaway in the face of such a depleted top order? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andreas21 184 Posted January 29, 2020 What ugliness of the Banzuke? A depleted rank is skipped, that's all. The dignity and the beauty of the ring-entering ceremony are important, but they are very flexible with that - a position will be substituted by the one with the next highest position which is available. How would they deal with a situation with no Ozeki and Yokuzuna left? No Dohyo-iri of the Yokozuna part, but apart from that - everything can proceed as normal. Even in this case I do not believe that they rush any promotions if no proper candidate of promotion is available. In fact, this is a totally realistic scenario with Hakuho and Kakuryo gone, Takakeisho injured and demoted, and the rest alternating good and bad Bashos. The Banzuke would range from Sekiwake East to M19w - there is no real problem with that. Of course, some social/religious events would then have to reconsider - they would have to do with former Yokozuna. This will later be known as the Sumo period with no Yokozuna/Ozeki! I could imagine that they loosen the conditions slightly, but not to the point that they simply selecting the best available and give the title to him. Sorry, Asanoyama, I'm afraid you really have to fight it out! 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Koorifuu 1,001 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) On 28/01/2020 at 15:56, Asashosakari said: Top high schoolers (see e.g. Kitanowaka or Tochikamiyama recently) generally have no trouble reaching makushita straight away, too Interesting bit: both went undefeated quite far into their first basho as makushita, and both were derailed by the same person: the Kaitomachine who made lower makushita his turf! Kitanowaka was Kaito's 4th scalp, Tochikamiyama his 5th. Edited January 30, 2020 by Koorifuu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,331 Posted January 31, 2020 A juryo banzuke guess: Kotonowaka (J2e 8-7) J1 Hidenoumi (J2w 8-7) Wakatakakage (J5e 9-6) J2 Daishoho (J5w 9-6) Chiyoshoma (J1w 7-8) J3 Tobizaru (J6w 9-6) Terunofuji (J13w 13-2 Y) J4 Daishomaru (J3e 7-8) Kyokushuho (J9e 10-5) J5 Kotoshoho (J8w 9-6) Kotoeko (M13w 2-13) J6 Akua (J9w 9-6) Mitoryu (J4w 6-9) J7 Churanoumi (J12w 8-7) Kyokutaisei (J8e 7-8) J8 Ichinojo (J7e 6-9) Hoshoryu (J14e 8-7) J9 Kizakiumi (J3w 3-12) Wakamotoharu (Ms1w 6-1) J10 Takagenji (J10w 7-8) Midorifuji (Ms2e 5-2) J11 Hakuyozan (Ms4w 6-1) Asagyokusei (J12e 7-8) J12 Yago (J7w 4-11) Chiyonoumi (Ms3w 5-2) J13 Tomokaze (J1e 0-0-15) Chiyootori (J13e 6-9) J14 Akiseyama (Ms4e 4-3) I really, really wanted to put Hoshoryu and Wakamotoharu the other way around, but considering the recent trend that apparently any makushita KK is seen as inferior to any juryo KK (e.g. Kizakiumi/Kaisho/Wakamotoharu/Akua four months ago)... As mentioned in the Day 15 recap I could see Terunofuji one spot up or down from that placement, but I think that's the extent of the reasonable range they can put him in. For an alternative view, lksumo at Tachiai just posted his projection, too. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eikokurai 3,437 Posted February 1, 2020 17 hours ago, Asashosakari said: any makushita KK is seen as inferior to any juryo KK Did you mean any Juryo MK? It seems self-evident to me that a KK in Juryo is better than one in Makushita, even an 8-7 at J12 versus a 7-0 at M1. 15 days is a tougher schedule than 7. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
itchyknee 60 Posted February 2, 2020 On 31/01/2020 at 16:38, Eikokurai said: Did you mean any Juryo MK? It seems self-evident to me that a KK in Juryo is better than one in Makushita, even an 8-7 at J12 versus a 7-0 at M1. 15 days is a tougher schedule than 7. Going off of Asashosakari's examples 2 tournaments ago, Wakamotoharu defeated Kaisho on day 1, yet was still placed a half rank behind him on the next banzuke. And Akua defeated Kizakiumi in his fourth bought on day 6 (with the previous bout on day 5), so not a whole lot of rest, and ended up two ranks behind him. So Kizakiumi lost to Akua who lost to Wakamotoharu, and Wakamotoharu is still a full rank behind Kizakiumi. So no, I believe Asashosakari meant what he wrote. Given (http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx?b=201301&snr=on) though, I would guess that this "rule" is either very new (looking at the actual 6-1 promotion in the 2013 result, I would guess this is not a new promotion criteria for 6-1 Ms wrestlers), or possibly only applicable to 6-1 and below scores or where the Juryo 8-7 is outside of the bottom two ranks (http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx?b=201807&snr=on) (still, an 8-7 J12w with two of his winning scores against Ms opponents being ranked higher than an Ms1e 7-0? Highly divergent from the same in 2013 ). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,331 Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) Yes, it used to be quite normal for very high-ranked 6-1's to pass low-ranked 8-7's, e.g. Nishikigi/Asabenkei/Azumaryu after Aki 2015 or Akiseyama/Tokushinho/Azumaryu after Kyushu 2012. Going back further it even used to happen with 5-2's, as with Kyokunankai/Sakaizawa after Natsu 2007 or Masatsukasa/Harunoyama/Kanbayashi after Natsu 2006. Edited February 2, 2020 by Asashosakari 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubinhaad 11,697 Posted February 26, 2020 Bit late but a couple of brief notes on two of the lower division champions in this basho. Jonokuchi yusho winner Nihonyanagi suffered an anterior cruciate ligament injury in his right knee in July 2018, and had surgery on it in December. After graduating from Saitama Sakae in March 2019 he moved into Onomatsu-beya while the knee was recovering, and finally had his hatsu-dohyo at the 2019 Kyushu basho. If not for the injury he would likely have made his debut in early 2019 alongside classmates Kitanowaka and Tochikamiyama, who are now in Makushita - Nihonyanagi's goal is to catch up to them as soon as possible. Makushita yusho winner Kaito's 0-7 result in the Kyushu basho was due to a neck injury. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
