This IS the July 2020 Basho thread!! Spoilers!!

[Kaninoyama 1,818]

4 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

Midorifuji, the paternal twin to Enho, gets his KK in juryo division.  

Unlike Enho he's added quite a bit of girth though since his debut. I hardly recognized him. 

 

[Kashunowaka 300]

Just now, Houmanumi said:

Am I correct in my understanding that with a play-off this size, it goes to the first wrestler to win two consecutive matches?

If so, does this mean potentially that a wrestler could qualify for a play-off, not get to participate, and not win the yusho?

No, everyone participates. 4 man, it's semi + final. 6 man, it's 3 semis and then three-way playoff. The others are too long to explain. :)

[Kintamayama 45,524]

4 minutes ago, Houmanumi said:

Am I correct in my understanding that with a play-off this size, it goes to the first wrestler to win two consecutive matches?

If so, does this mean potentially that a wrestler could qualify for a play-off, not get to participate, and not win the yusho?

No, anything more than 3 rikishi, it’s a league. Winner of each bout advances. If there is an uneven number to start out, one gets a bye.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Kintamayama

[Gurowake 4,104]

1 minute ago, Houmanumi said:

Am I correct in my understanding that with a play-off this size, it goes to the first wrestler to win two consecutive matches?

If so, does this mean potentially that a wrestler could qualify for a play-off, not get to participate, and not win the yusho?

That's what happens if it gets down to exactly 3 people.  I think that only happens if the starting number is exactly 3.  In all other cases they give byes to get to a power of 2.  Maybe.  I can't recall right now and I'm sure someone else will link to what's happened in the past soonish.

[Kintamayama 45,524]

Ex- Juryo Kizenryuu has retired.

[Godango 1,014]

3 minutes ago, Kashunowaka said:

No, everyone participates. 4 man, it's semi + final. 6 man, it's 3 semis and then three-way playoff. The others are too long to explain. :)

 

1 minute ago, Kintamayama said:

No, anything more than 3 rikishi, it’s a league. Winner of each bout advances. If there is an uneven number to start out, one gets a bye.

 

1 minute ago, Gurowake said:

That's what happens if it gets down to exactly 3 people.  I think that only happens if the starting number is exactly 3.  In all other cases they give byes to get to a power of 2.  Maybe.  I can't recall right now and I'm sure someone else will link to what's happened in the past soonish.

Cheers all, I thought there would have to be a more sensible way.

[Seiyashi 4,108]

27 minutes ago, Houmanumi said:

 

 

Cheers all, I thought there would have to be a more sensible way.

If I remember correctly:

• 3: tomoe-sen, win 2 in a row
• 4: elimination format (semifinal/final)
• 5: 2 elimination matches (one bye), then as 3-man playoff
• 6: 3 elimination matches, then as 3-man playoff
• 7: 3 elimination matches, then as 4-man playoff
• 8: 4 elimination matches, then as 4-man playoff
• 9: 4 elimination matches (one bye), then as 5-man playoff.
• 10: ?????? (5 elimination matches (one bye), then as 5-man playoff?)
• 11: 5 elimination matches (one bye), then as 6-man playoff
• 12: 6 elimination matches, then as 6-man playoff

There's a certain elegance and pattern to these, once put out like that.

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Seiyashi
Found the 7-man playoff and the 11-man

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

And Tobizaru henkas his way into maku'uchi. Monkey in flight!

Edited August 2, 2020 by Tigerboy1966
spelling

[Kashunowaka 300]

3 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

If I remember correctly:

• 3: tomoe-sen, win 2 in a row
• 4: elimination format (semifinal/final)
• 5: one wrestler has a bye, 2 elimination matches, remaining 3 in tomoe-sen
• 6: 3 elimination matches, then tomoe-sen
• 7: ??????? (1 bye, 3 elimination matches, then league?)
• 8: elimination (quarters/semi/final)

I think 7 would be like 8, but with a bye for one rikishi. Perhaps that's what you wrote.

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

Will they go through all the ring entering ceremonies or bring on Ichinojo and Shohozan straight away?

[WAKATAKE 2,671]

Just now, Tigerboy1966 said:

Will they go through all the ring entering ceremonies or bring on Ichinojo and Shohozan straight away?

I believe several years ago there was a juryo rikishi involved in a playoff but had to wrestle in makuuchi. At the conclusion of the juryo matches, they did the makuuchi dohyo iri, then the match, then the playoffs.

[Kashunowaka 300]

@Seiyashi: as you can see in the thread, the record is 12-way playoff (!)

Edited August 2, 2020 by Kashunowaka

[Kaninoyama 1,818]

Meisei is in.

[Kaninoyama 1,818]

5 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Will they go through all the ring entering ceremonies or bring on Ichinojo and Shohozan straight away?

Looks like they're going ahead with the dohyo-iri first, which you'd expect since Shohozan couldn't wrestle before taking part in the ceremony.

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

They are going to have to crack on to get this finished by 6!

[Seiyashi 4,108]

Some of the info is a bit outdated. 9-member playoffs were held in 1970 (makushita/sandanme) as 4 elimination matches (to reduce the field to 5), then as 5.

 

 

[Kintamayama 45,524]

28 minutes ago, Kashunowaka said:

I can't help feeling that the schedule is a little unfair to Ichinojo. He gets much less rest than the others, if he wins against Shohozan.

There's a sandanme playoff, so he'll have a breather.

[Ichimawashi 573]

One would think a better way for seven would be to split into a 3-way and a 4-way KO, but alternate matches between the two groups until one emerges from each.

[Kintamayama 45,524]

1 minute ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

They are going to have to crack on to get this finished by 6!

Not really, as long as they get Makuuchi started by 4 pm. A lot of time left.

[Seiyashi 4,108]

2 minutes ago, Ichimawashi said:

One would think a better way for seven would be to split into a 3-way and a 4-way KO, but alternate matches between the two groups until one emerges from each.

Ahah, found the 7-man playoff. Elimination style, 1 man gets a first-round bye.

[WAKATAKE 2,671]

7 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Meisei is in.

Which I know makes a certain @Gaijingai happy because he just won yusho in a sumo game!

[Seiyashi 4,108]

23 minutes ago, Kashunowaka said:

@Seiyashi: as you can see in the thread, the record is 12-way playoff (!)

A vast pity that the db doesn't preserve the full record of the 12-way playoff or the 10-way. The 12-way has only 2 bouts preserved, whereas the 10-way only preserves one rikishi's bouts.

11: 5 elimination matches, then as 6-man playoff.

EDIT: edited both my earlier post and this one with the pattern. It's actually fairly elegant if some of the formats are restated:

• 3: tomoe-sen, win 2 in a row
• 4: elimination format (semifinal/final)
• 5: 2 elimination matches (one bye), then as 3-man playoff
• 6: 3 elimination matches, then as 3-man playoff
• 7: 3 elimination matches, then as 4-man playoff
• 8: 4 elimination matches, then as 4-man playoff
• 9: 4 elimination matches (one bye), then as 5-man playoff.
• 10: ?????? (5 elimination matches (one bye), then as 5-man playoff?)
• 11: 5 elimination matches (one bye), then as 6-man playoff
• 12: 6 elimination matches, then as 6-man playoff

So in theory you could derive 13 and higher playoffs similarly:

• 13: 6 elimination matches, then as 7-man playoff
• 14: 7 elimination matches, then as 7-man playoff

Recursive formula (cos I'm a massive math nerd) for an x-man playoff above 4-man would be:

• n where n is odd:  (n-1)/2 elimination matches, then as (n+1)/2 playoff
• n where n is even: n/2 elimination matches, then as n/2 playoff

Edited August 2, 2020 by Seiyashi

[Seiyashi 4,108]

And Ichinojo just lost, so it's a 6-man playoff. Pity.

[Kashunowaka 300]

16 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

There's a sandanme playoff, so he'll have a breather.

No need for that now...

[Kashunowaka 300]

1 minute ago, Seiyashi said:

And Ichinojo just lost, so it's a 6-man playoff. Pity.

Yes, it's "just" a 6-man playoff.