Sumo’s newest Ozeki — Shodai Naoya

[Kaninoyama 1,777]

14 minutes ago, Gospodin said:

That´s disturbing, and sounds immature. He even lost to Hakuho after he already had a firm morozashi.

Well, to be fair, on the NHK broadcasts Mainoumi and Kitanofuji talk a lot about how having such a go-to "can't lose" move is critical to making the leap to the top level. 

So I think it's something more like: a Yokozuna candidate needs to have a dominant go-to move, but can't rely on it solely to the exclusion of all else. 

[Jakusotsu 5,960]

2 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Takakeisho is not as limited as we thought.

Really? All I see is 85% shoving his opponents off their feet without ever touching silk.
(...and we don't even know the other 15%)

[Gospodin 191]

31 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Well, to be fair, on the NHK broadcasts Mainoumi and Kitanofuji talk a lot about how having such a go-to "can't lose" move is critical to making the leap to the top level. 

So I think it's something more like: a Yokozuna candidate needs to have a dominant go-to move, but can't rely on it solely to the exclusion of all else. 

I understand. I am sure it slipped by me, but of the recent Yokozuna, I have only Hakuho´s left uwate grip as an almost sure thing. The others ? No idea.

[Tigerboy1966 1,445]

2 hours ago, Gospodin said:

3 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Well, to be fair, on the NHK broadcasts Mainoumi and Kitanofuji talk a lot about how having such a go-to "can't lose" move is critical to making the leap to the top level. 

So I think it's something more like: a Yokozuna candidate needs to have a dominant go-to move, but can't rely on it solely to the exclusion of all else. 

I understand. I am sure it slipped by me, but of the recent Yokozuna, I have only Hakuho´s left uwate grip as an almost sure thing. The others ? No idea.

According to WP Wajima had a "golden left arm" inside grip.

[RabidJohn 1,777]

I think most rikishi who go to the belt prefer either hidari yotsu (right hand out, left in) or migi yotsu (left hand out, right in). Very few are equally proficient at both (presumably because ambidexterity is uncommon). Then it's further divided into those who do most 'damage' with their uwate (outer) grip, like Kisenosato and Asanoyama, and those whose shitate (inner) grip is more dangerous, like Wajima and, say, Ishiura.

The rikishi who climb to the top tend to be able to get wins when they can't impose their preferred style, and this is where Asanoyama has the edge over Takakeisho IMO. However, the best example of this adaptability from Aki was of course Shodai.

[pricklypomegranate 730]

4 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Really? All I see is 85% shoving his opponents off their feet without ever touching silk.
(...and we don't even know the other 15%)

Well I did doubt my data at first, but now that I think about it, it passes the eye test. Oshidashi, Tsukiotoshi, Hatakikomi, Tsukidashi and Hikiotoshi are all pushing, thrusting and pulling techniques - no belt holds there. Perhaps Takakeisho's technique is more nuanced than I thought and I shall be paying better attention next basho... 

Was very shocked to see even 1 win from him with kainahineri, which is part of the 15%. It didn't seem like he had the finesse to pull it off. 

[Tigerboy1966 1,445]

31 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I think most rikishi who go to the belt prefer either hidari yotsu (right hand out, left in) or migi yotsu (left hand out, right in).

Roughly 30% of the current sekitori who go for the belt favour hidari-yotsu. If it correlates with left-handedness that's a higher figure than we would expect from a random sample (about 10% of people are left-handed). I wonder if sumo is one of those sports where southpaws have an advantage. I wouldn't be surprised if there has already been a thread on this topic.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Tigerboy1966
clarify

[rhyen 1,835]

The outside grip is the dominant hand? Or is it the inside grip?

[Kashunowaka 300]

16 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Takakeishou-7-8 Makuuchi debut

Chiyotaikai- 8-7

Tochinoshin: 7-8

Konishiki: 8-7

Takanohana: 8-7

Wakanohana: 8-7

Chiyonofuji: 8-7

etc.. etc.. And there are many 10-5 debutants who amounted to nothing. As I see it, Houshouryuu has it. Give him time, he'll make it.

We are only joking about your predictions because we love you, Kinta-zeki...

[RabidJohn 1,777]

2 hours ago, rhyen said:

The outside grip is the dominant hand? Or is it the inside grip?

That's a variable, and a difficult one to pin down. For example Asanoyama's preference for migi-yotsu suggests he's right-handed, but it's the left which produces the commanding yorikiri and uwatenage. That's the non-dominant side's superior ability at muscle memory stuff coming into play, I believe.

The overall ratio of uwatenage to shitatenage suggests the outer grip is more successful, but there are exceptions. Wajima is before my time, but look at how many wins Ishiura gets with shitatenage, shitatedashinage and shitatehineri. Some guys make the shitate grip work well.

[Tigerboy1966 1,445]

5 hours ago, rhyen said:

The outside grip is the dominant hand? Or is it the inside grip?

The clue is in the name given to the two forms of grip. Hidari means left and hidari-yotsu is the name given to the style where there is a left-hand inside grip. Migi means right and migi-yotsu is the name given to the style where there is a right-hand inside grip. The inside grip is generally considered more favourable.  That's why having a double inside grip (moro-zashi) is regarded as advantageous.

[Washuyama 641]

15 hours ago, Gospodin said:

He even lost to Hakuho after he already had a firm morozashi.

I'm pretty sure THAT list is long and distinguished.

[Yubinhaad 11,659]

17 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

I realised that the winning kimarite pie chart on Kyokai's website definitely doesn't add up

FWIW, that information is calculated from the last six basho, but this is only stated on the Japanese side and not mentioned at all on the English.

[sumojoann 1,264]

On 01/10/2020 at 04:18, Kintamayama said:

I'm not sure anyone was mocking me- I started to call him not- the - next-Ozeki, not because I didn't believe in him, but because factually, he was not the next Ozeki. I think only Asanoyama and Takakeishou became Ozeki after I said Shoudai was the next one, so it's two, not four. If anyone can find the first instance  of my utterance..

This is the first conversation I can find about you saying that Shodai would become the next Ozeki.  It's from July 24, 2016. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

• Oba-Q
•  
• 
• Active Members
• 31,123
• 26,112 posts
• Gender: Male
• Location: Ramat Gan, Israel

• Report post
•  

Posted July 24, 2016

Reminds me of the KaioU days. Same text except for the no-yusho part. Choker, unlucky, strong yokozunas not letting him get the tsuna, etc.. etc..

Yes, there was the endless injuries factor as opposed to Kisenosato's Kyokutenhou-ness, but still, I remember the rhetoric.

At the time, all of us (fan-boys excluded) knew U would never make it. We just knew. I have the same feeling today about Kise, just like I KNOW Shoudai is a future Ozek

•  

• -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Gurowake 4,050]

3 hours ago, Yubinhaad said:

FWIW, that information is calculated from the last six basho, but this is only stated on the Japanese side and not mentioned at all on the English.

Well, it says "Kimarite of late", though it doesn't specify the interval.

[sumojoann 1,264]

On 01/10/2020 at 04:18, Kintamayama said:

I'm not sure anyone was mocking me- I started to call him not- the - next-Ozeki, not because I didn't believe in him, but because factually, he was not the next Ozeki. I think only Asanoyama and Takakeishou became Ozeki after I said Shoudai was the next one, so it's two, not four. If anyone can find the first instance  of my utterance..

Here's another quote from the same thread back in 2016. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Kintamayama 45,093]

Shoudai's mentor was the late Mongolian Tokitenkuu, who was his senpai at Tokyo Agricultural. Shoudai was his tsukebito and was worked to the bone. "He used to train  me till I couldn't move." said Shoudai. Tokitenkuu was very proud when Shoudai made it to the paid ranks. Towards the end of his career he couldn't beat a strong Shoudai in keiko anymore.  When he became ill, Tokitenkuu was kyujo a lot but continued training as long as he had the power in him. He lent his chest to Shoudai and turned him into a strong rikishi.

[hakutorizakura 628]

5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Shoudai's mentor was the late Mongolian Tokitenkuu, who was his senpai at Tokyo Agricultural. Shoudai was his tsukebito and was worked to the bone. "He used to train  me till I couldn't move." said Shoudai. Tokitenkuu was very proud when Shoudai made it to the paid ranks. Towards the end of his career he couldn't beat a strong Shoudai in keiko anymore.  When he became ill, Tokitenkuu was kyujo a lot but continued training as long as he had the power in him. He lent his chest to Shoudai and turned him into a strong rikishi.

Nice, I didn't know that Shodai used to be Tokitenku's tsukebito. If only he had absorbed Tokitenku's various techniques he'd become a more formidable rikishi than he is now.

[Akinomaki 40,421]

Shodai today at the Cabinet office met with same Kumamoto shusshin minister of state for special missions (地方創生担当相, １億総活躍担当) Sakamoto. The minister positive: "I'd like him to aim for Japanese yokozuna", Shodai negative: "I gave (the locals) premature joy" (in the yusho race for Hatsu and July till the end and failing), gambarizing "Not to drop down again at once" (from ozeki).

Kumamoto TV news clip: https://www.tku.co.jp/news/20201006ｅ2/  ->mp4

o o o

Edit: the TKU pages disappear after a day, the mp4 video file is still there

Edited October 7, 2020 by Akinomaki

[Akinomaki 40,421]

A bit more on Shodai from the articles last week.

He started sumo in 1st year primary school, but only once in 5th grade was in a national wampaku-zumo tournament: only 1 per prefecture could enter there. In 6th grade he was about 160cm, 60kg and tender-hearted. At a local tournament in middle school, when there were also older grades in the team and he had to win, to have the team advance to the Kyushu tournament, he went pale. With the yusho on the line, his body went stiff and he lost. But he was loved by his friends for his kind and calm character.

o

 

Immediately after his yusho, a site to check some data of name kanji for 1 day had searches for "正代" at no. 1 on the access list. o https://myoji-yurai.net/searchResult.htm?myojiKanji=正代

About 380 people of that name live in Japan, ranked 15001st most, it has the greatest density in Kumamoto pref., where it ranks 1645th most, about 10 live in Uto. https://myoji-yurai.net/myojiPrefectureDetail.htm?myojiKanji=正代&prefecture=熊本県 Definitely a rare name.

The origin of the name though seems to be in the Shodai district of Higashi-Matsuyama 東松山市, Saitama - till 1889 a village. Originally written 小代, this family of influential gokenin of the Kamakura shogunate were appointed estate stewards at a location now in Kumamoto pref. to prepare against the Mongolian invasion.

o

on a visit there in 2015 - the locals now want to form a koenkai for him.

o

[Kintamayama 45,093]

From college-all Japan tournament semifinals - 2011 - Shoudai against Kawaguchi:

Finals: Shoudai- Nakamura (Hokutofuji)

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Kintamayama

[Akinomaki 40,421]

Shodai was allowed to travel home to Uto in Kumamoto pref (and shake hands). In the morning he was at the city hall. A parade would be difficult in these times.

greeted by a classmate who works for the city

o oo

and local mascot Uton Yukinaga-shan https://www.city.uto.lg.jp/utomonogatari/q/list/15.html

o o ooo

with the mayor

o o o

and his father

o o 

and more koenkai members etc.

o o

In the afternoon he reported his yusho to his kohai at his old high school, doing some scouting at the sumo club: "When you go pro, I'll wait for you at Tokitsukaze-beya."

o

local NHK

vid

Kumamoto TV news clip: https://www.tku.co.jp/news/20201008ｅ4/ -> mp4

Edited October 9, 2020 by Akinomaki

[Akinomaki 40,421]

The 2nd day of the home tour to present himself as new ozeki saw the official visit to Kumamon the governor of Kumamoto. Shodai was again accompanied by his father and apparently  the head of the local koenkai.

o o o

local NHK

vid

Kumamoto TV news clip: https://www.tku.co.jp/news/20201009ｅ5/ -> mp4

Yesterday at his old (Kumamoto agricultural) high school in Kumamoto-city

o

at the sumo club

o

Edited October 10, 2020 by Akinomaki

[RabidJohn 1,777]

Heading off topic, but I've got to ask. Are Japanese mascots all part of some kind of Quango?

I'm used to seeing mascots associated with sports and sports teams, but whenever one of these rikishi goes to meet a governmental leader there always seems to be the official mascot for the town/prefecture nearby.

Having seen Demon Kakka in full get-up as a pall bearer at a prominent rikishi's funeral, it would surprise me not a bit to find out these mascots participate in town and prefecture meetings in their outfits.

[Akinomaki 40,421]

1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

Heading off topic, but I've got to ask. Are Japanese mascots all part of some kind of Quango?

I'm used to seeing mascots associated with sports and sports teams, but whenever one of these rikishi goes to meet a governmental leader there always seems to be the official mascot for the town/prefecture nearby.

All kind of entities create (and own) their mascot, municipalities, prefectures, organizations, companies, and they post the work schedule etc. of the mascot character on their homepages. They had a yearly competition, yuru-chara GP www.yurugp.jp/en/, the first official one was won by Kumamon, the 10th and last was this month, and they have yuru-chara sumo competitions as well. The boom may be drawing to its end.

Their duty is to make genki the location, the company or Japan in general, give vitality.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Akinomaki