2021 "Kozumo" Hatsu Basho discussion thread

[Kaninoyama 1,797]

42 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

With regard to Terunofuji v. Takanosho, let the outrage begin. 

Provided Takanosho's toe did not nick the outside sand, and it doesn't appear it did, Terunofuji clearly stepped out first. Plus, it all happened right in front of the shimpan who immediately raised his hand. 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

43 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

With regard to Terunofuji v. Takanosho, let the outrage begin. 

No outrage from me.  Takanosho showed some real balancing skill as if glued to the special bale, while Terunofuji did his best to keep his right foot up.  But from the replay it was pretty clear that Teru's foot dropped out in the corner first.  Balance was the deciding factor in who actually made the winning move.  Essentially, they both knocked each other out of the ring.

The fact that Isegahama awarded the win to Takanosho is clear evidence that there was no way for Terunofuji's oyakata to spin the monoii decision in Teru's favour.

[robnplunder 975]

5 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Provided Takanosho's toe did not nick the outside sand, and it doesn't appear it did, Terunofuji clearly stepped out first. Plus, it all happened right in front of the shimpan who immediately raised his hand. 

I thought Takanosho won even before the monoii call.  The slow-mo was pretty clear.  Takanosho won.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The Shonannoumi bout was no fun to watch. After a head bump matta, unable to stand, but was kept trying. Shimpan conference till he was able to compete again. At least he won, but his head got some lasting damage.

Can't say I've ever seen a monoii called after a wrestler almost gets knocked unconscious in a false start.  But by doing that, it gave Shonannoumi time to gather his senses.  Was that the right thing to do?  Unfortunately, sumo demands a winner for each bout, and there doesn't seem to be a provision for awarding a win when a wrestler's condition looks iffy after a false start. If at all possible, the show must go on.

Not only was that bout "no fun to watch", it was difficult to watch.  It made many online fans question the merits of how things went down.

 

[Eikokurai 3,437]

8 hours ago, robnplunder said:

I just don't see how Takakeisho losing to Okinoumi.  He has a perfect sumo style to roll over Okinoumi.  I say he goes 3-7 after today but eventually go MK.

I dunno, I think Okinoumi handled him pretty easily today.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

1 minute ago, Amamaniac said:

Can't say I've ever seen a monoii called after a wrestler almost gets knocked unconscious in a false start.

I don’t think there was a monoii, but Hokutofuji got knocked out after a matta by Ryuden (I think) and still fought.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

Well, we now have the answer to our questions: (1) Would Takakeisho withdraw from the tournament given his poor record? A: Yes; and (2) What "excuse" would be given? A: The Ozeki allegedly injured (rolled) his left ankle on day 3 in that fierce battle with Hokutofuji.  Apparently, he didn't tell his oyakata until day 5.

For more details: https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202101190000234.html

So that may be a valid excuse for Takakeisho's five losses starting from day 3, but it doesn't explain his losses on the first two days...  The losing trend and the losing form was present from day 1.  

When they replayed Asanoyama's victory yesterday (IMMSMC), Takakeisho got up from his ringside zabuton immediately after the bout, and headed down the hanamichi.  There was absolutely no sign that his ankle was bothering him.  

Compare Takakeisho's pre-withdrawal condition with that of Ura who looked to be in pain after his bout yesterday, but he came back for his bout today and Terutsuyoshi who has grimaced after almost every one of his bouts this tournament with a left bicep injury, but he keeps on toughing it out.

 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

Can we talk about the elephant in the room?  Down in Makushita, current bow twirler Shohoryu (Ms8w) has put together five straight wins.  Two more wins may bump him up into the salaried ranks of Juryo.  All the joi boys (except Nishikifuji) currently have pretty dismal records which goes in Shohoryu's favour.  

It's rare for bow twirlers to break into the salaried ranks.  Does anyone have a handle on when Shohoryu first started twirling duties?

All eyes on deck.  He fights tomorrow!  

[Morty 1,495]

I am now pretty convinced that Mitakeumi will KK this basho, while Akiseyama will MK. 

Awesome day of sumo today - some great bouts, my favourite being Ichinojo/Midorifuji, with all the little technical stuff they did trying to get the grip they wanted.

[Philioyamfugi 378]

Terushuoshi levitated.... that was cool

[Mightyduck 67]

2 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Congratulations Shodai! You are home free! But his bout was certainly not very convincing...

Once Asanoyama got his hands on Tamawashi's belt, the pusher-thruster had scarce chance to revive himself. And unless a great catastrophe happens, Asanoyama will definitely clear his kadoban. See, what did I tell you guys... 

Daieisho shakes off his opening loss yesterday very well and though he almost slipped a couple of times, Hokutofuji's lateral movement could not save him. 

Myogiryu with a very poorly executed hatakikomi made sure that Terutsuyoshi's dive for his legs was very successful. 

Is Kotoshoho going to walk away with a zenpai? You cannot be serious! 

With regard to Terunofuji v. Takanosho, let the outrage begin. 

Shodai has looked in pain after his bouts, particularly today. He's been hanging on by his finger nails and lucky to win a few of his matches, particularly today. If he falls further behind daiesho I think he will drop out. 

 

I feel really bad for Kotoshoho, he's been close to getting that vital first win a couple of times, but can't catch a break. Hopefully he'll bounce back next Basho, like Onosho did.

[Shinobi Steve 146]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

Does anyone have a handle on when Shohoryu first started twirling duties?

Maybe he started sometime between May-July 2019? I'll leave it up to those skilled in Japanese to correct that. 

Nikkan Sport Article on Shohoryu

[Akinomaki 40,636]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

Can we talk about the elephant in the room?  Down in Makushita, current bow twirler Shohoryu (Ms8w) has put together five straight wins.  Two more wins may bump him up into the salaried ranks of Juryo.  All the joi boys (except Nishikifuji) currently have pretty dismal records which goes in Shohoryu's favour.  

It's rare for bow twirlers to break into the salaried ranks.  Does anyone have a handle on when Shohoryu first started twirling duties?

from the yumitori thread - at the honbasho one year ago

On 23/08/2019 at 14:36, Akinomaki said:

Shohoryu did the yumitori-shiki at the jungyo in Hakodate - he's a tsukebito of Kakuryu. At the 20 days of the jungyo till then, the task was shared equally between him and Hakuho's tsukebito Kasugaryu, who is the main performer since the Haru basho last year, and lately without a regular replacement. For the jungyo favorite shokkiri, the jungyo top took care to have a 3rd man as replacement, but the yumitori rikishi had none for a while. At the Haru jungyo in April, jungyo no 2. Hanakago asked Shohoryu if he can do it. At that jungyo he performed 3 times, but thought it "A total disaster". This time he practiced in between tsukebito duties, and maybe he'll get 3 days to perform at the Aki basho next.

Hanakago names as a point for selecting a yumitori rikishi: "Does he have courage or not", and said he decided on Shohoryu by a feeling. He's makushita and made it up there with a small stature of 170cm, so he must have some.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/column/sumo/news/201908230000287.html

On 13/01/2020 at 13:26, Yubinhaad said:

Looks like Shohoryu will take over the yumitori-shiki from Day 3 - apparently he was meant to do it from the start, but due to a communication breakdown the torikumi-hyo for the first two days were printed with Kasugaryu's name.

https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20200113-00000197-spnannex-spo

Edited January 19, 2021 by Akinomaki

[Seregost 132]

4 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Hoshoryu quietly back to level with five straight wins after starting the basho with five straight losses. 

Well, it looks clear he needs a little shove from his uncle to start fighting properly xD

[dada78641 884]

When watching that Terunofuji-Takanosho match, I was thinking they might call a torinaoshi. It's true that Terunofuji stepped out first but it also looked like a case of shinitai. But ultimately I think the decision was correct (sadly, I really wanted Terunofuji to win).

Face of a man who just got away with MURDER.

[Kintamayama 45,251]

6 hours ago, Seregost said:

Well, it looks clear he needs a little shove from his uncle to start fighting properly xD

He got it already, hence the 5 straight wins.

[Seregost 132]

36 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

He got it already, hence the 5 straight wins.

I mean, "needed" xD

[Amamaniac 2,079]

Ozeki Watch for day 11

Well, well, well...  Day 10 brought with it news of Takakeisho's kyujo withdrawal announcement.  Our Ozeki Watch just became 33.3% less involved than before (and perhaps 33.3% less entertaining).  Going back and reviewing the Day 3 broadcast does indeed reveal that Takakeisho twisted his left ankle just before he fell and lost his bout against Hokutofuji.  No doubt, he was experiencing pain in that ankle (and hiding it extremely well), making his quest for at least eight wins more or less futile.  I think we can all agree that the withdrawal was widely expected.  So, to what do we have to look forward tomorrow?

Asanoyama will lead the Ozeki charge against his highest-ranked opponent to date: Takanosho.  The West Sekiwake has put together a respectable 6-4 record thus far, and is definitely a dangerous foe for any Top Division scrapper.  Asanoyama won their first two official meetings, but in their last meeting it was Takanosho who turned the tables.  So while Takanosho has the ability to defeat the Ozeki, Asanoyama will definitely be looking to get back on course in that match up.  On top of that, he'll not only want to get his 8th win needed to secure his Ozeki status, but also want to stay in the championship race, especially now that he trails frontrunner Daieisho by only two wins.  Takanosho is not going to make it easy for the Ozeki.  He looked pretty solid against a former Ozeki, i.e., Terunofuji, today.

And in the final bout, Shodai has a slightly less intimidating opponent in Okinoumi.  Okinoumi has a 6-4 record in this tournament, just like Takanosho,  But his five actual wins have come against rank-and-filers only.  He lost to Sekiwake Terunofuji on day 9 (n.b., his "win" over Ozeki Takakeisho today was a default win).  The only unsettling thing is that Okinoumi actually has a better record head-to-head than Shodai (i.e., 5-4).  Since March of 2019, they've traded wins, and this tournament is Shodai's turn!  But that consideration offers no guarantee whatsoever.  Shodai will have to fight hard and smart if he hopes to defeat a sometimes sluggish, but crafty Okinoumi.  Despite the fact that, like Takakeisho, injury may also be plaguing him, Shodai has the best reason to win since he trails frontrunner Daieisho by only one win!

Before Takakeisho's withdrawal, the Ozeki watch in this tournament was essentially seeing whether the two kadoban Ozekis could challenge for the championship, and watching the slow and painful train-wreck that was the recent championship winner.  Well, as for the wreck, "move along, there's nothing to see, people" as they say...

[Atenzan 1,083]

I haven't been following the basho until now due to health problems I've been dealing with (all fine now), just went to check the yusho arasoi and I have one thing to say.

Daieishou got absolutely screwed by the banzuke committee. M2w 10-5 only good enough for M1w? You have drawn his ire. 8-0, 9-1, whatever, this doesn't stop here. Daieishou is not going to be stopped until he reaches a rank where his banzuke luck isn't a factor.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

40 minutes ago, Atenzan said:

I haven't been following the basho until now due to health problems I've been dealing with (all fine now), just went to check the yusho arasoi and I have one thing to say.

Daieishou got absolutely screwed by the banzuke committee. M2w 10-5 only good enough for M1w? You have drawn his ire. 8-0, 9-1, whatever, this doesn't stop here. Daieishou is not going to be stopped until he reaches a rank where his banzuke luck isn't a factor.

Glad to see you again, and glad that whatever health problems beset you, they didn't dull your sumo sense!

[Asashosakari 19,440]

51 minutes ago, Atenzan said:

Daieishou got absolutely screwed by the banzuke committee. M2w 10-5 only good enough for M1w? You have drawn his ire. 8-0, 9-1, whatever, this doesn't stop here. Daieishou is not going to be stopped until he reaches a rank where his banzuke luck isn't a factor.

So M1e?

[Churaumi 743]

14 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The Shonannoumi bout was no fun to watch. After a head bump matta, unable to stand, but was kept trying. Shimpan conference till he was able to compete again. At least he won, but his head got some lasting damage.

Mt Fuji said in his video something about the shimpan meeting to change the rules regarding this, has anyone else heard anything about that? 

Hopefully that'll be the last time we see an injured rikishi flopping around the dohyo while no one does anything to help him. I doubt it, but I can hope.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

2 hours ago, Atenzan said:

Daieishou got absolutely screwed by the banzuke committee. M2w 10-5 only good enough for M1w?

Unfortunate, not screwed, I’d say. He probably deserved the M1e slot over Hokutofuji, but not getting a sanyaku slot isn’t unusual. Banzuke congestion is a fact of life at the top. There are fewer places available into which to promote someone and though they have the discretion to create extra K/S slots, they don’t more often than they do, so Daieisho wasn’t treated exceptionally. Pity the poor Sekiwake who gets KK every basho and his literally nowhere to go. That’s the deal at the elite end of the banzuke.

[Godango 996]

2 hours ago, Atenzan said:

Daieishou got absolutely screwed by the banzuke committee. M2w 10-5 only good enough for M1w? You have drawn his ire. 8-0, 9-1, whatever, this doesn't stop here. Daieishou is not going to be stopped until he reaches a rank where his banzuke luck isn't a factor.

2 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Unfortunate, not screwed, I’d say. He probably deserved the M1e slot over Hokutofuji, but not getting a sanyaku slot isn’t unusual. Banzuke congestion is a fact of life at the top. There are fewer places available into which to promote someone and though they have the discretion to create extra K/S slots, they don’t more often than they do, so Daieisho wasn’t treated exceptionally. Pity the poor Sekiwake who gets KK every basho and his literally nowhere to go. That’s the deal at the elite end of the banzuke.

I'm glad this has come up organically.

I was one who had picked a 4-man Komusubi slate with out current M1's at Komusubi. My super-speculative question is; should Daieisho get the expected 11+ here and carry that form through another two tournaments; would this score from M1 be an acceptable start of an Ozeki run? 

Should be a given if he wins this tournament obviously, but what's the precedent if he comes up just short?

 

[Asashosakari 19,440]

42 minutes ago, Houmanumi said:

I was one who had picked a 4-man Komusubi slate with out current M1's at Komusubi. My super-speculative question is; should Daieisho get the expected 11+ here and carry that form through another two tournaments; would this score from M1 be an acceptable start of an Ozeki run? 

Sure. The bigger question might be what they'll do with his 10 wins from last time if he does enough to go up straight to sekiwake for the next tournament...

On that note, I'd like to register my outrage early if Daieisho gets 12+ wins here and only gets put at komusubi, effectively screwing him a second time since that would obviously be a sekiwake promotion if they had put him at komusubi for this basho as he deserved. (In fact, that's exactly the kind of scenario that speaks against their ultra-stingy extra slot practices, rare as it may be to actually materialize.)

Edited January 19, 2021 by Asashosakari