March basho 2021

[Eikokurai 3,437]

7 minutes ago, bessantj said:

You'd think they'd be quicker to get to someone who has suffered a serious injury. 

You must be new here.

[bessantj 4]

2 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

You must be new here.

I suppose after Shonannoumi's concussion I shouldn't be surprised at anything. 

[sumojoann 1,264]

I'm confused about the lack of a KK interview with Hoshoryu.  To my knowledge, he was never interviewed and I'm pretty sure the Japanese announcers were discussing it.  Since I don't understand Japanese, I don't know what was said.  Can a rikishi refuse the KK interview?  Hoshoryu looked kind of angry at the end of his bout so I don't know if that had something to do with him not wanting to do it.  Can anyone enlighten me?

[Seiyashi 4,087]

3 minutes ago, sumojoann said:

I'm confused about the lack of a KK interview with Hoshoryu.  To my knowledge, he was never interviewed and I'm pretty sure the Japanese announcers were discussing it.  Since I don't understand Japanese, I don't know what was said.  Can a rikishi refuse the KK interview?  Hoshoryu looked kind of angry at the end of his bout so I don't know if that had something to do with him not wanting to do it.  Can anyone enlighten me?

He got shafted by having to make space for the lower division yusho interviews, according to Herouth on Twitter.

[Seiyashi 4,087]

10 minutes ago, bessantj said:

13 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

You must be new here.

I suppose after Shonannoumi's concussion I shouldn't be surprised at anything. 

One thing you have to realise is that the attitude to injury is informed by more than just "he has an injury". Sports generally is about the tournaments and events, but sumo has it pretty much the other way round - the bulk of the rikishi's life is his everyday training, and the tournaments are the special days only.

At the risk of shilling, I recommend you look up Kintamayama's interview with Tachiai over on their site (it might be John Gunning's interview, I don't know). He has perhaps the best grasp on sumo culture and thinking that a non-Japanese non-rikishi can ever get (and even better than some combinations of those two traits, even *cough cough Takanohana II*), and you get to read about some really illuminating things on how various sumo insiders themselves view sumo in general and their attitude towards injury in particular.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Amamaniac 2,079]

2 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Funnily enough, despite his rapidly fading irrelevance in the yusho race (now 8-5 after a loss to Aoiyama), Tobizaru is still scheduled to fight Takayasu tomorrow. The best he can do is help either Terunofuji or Asanoyama draw level with Takayasu and put the other one back in contention, but he's definitely not in it for himself.

At the moment, Terunofuji is already level with Takayasu (thanks to an outstanding effort by Wakatatakage and a lacklustre effort by Shodai).  But your suggestion may still apply:

If Tobizaru somehow beats Takayasu tomorrow, he will lose his co-leader status.  But five bouts later, Terunofuji will go up against Asanoyama.  If Asanoyama wins, then Takayasu, Terunofuji, and Asanoyama will all draw level.  But Asanoyama has never defeated Terunofuji.  If I were Asanoyama, I'd be "Teru-fied".

On paper, I'd say that Day 14 will end with the status quo maintained, Terunofuji and Takayasu sharing the lead.  Senshuraku will hopefully be what Senshuraku should be: the exciting climax.  I suspect the final bout will be Terunofuji versus Takakeisho.  Talk about a huge revenge match! (Not to mention the possibility for a ketteisen playoff...)

Edited March 26, 2021 by Amamaniac

[bessantj 4]

6 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

One thing you have to realise is that the attitude to injury is informed by more than just "he has an injury". Sports generally is about the tournaments and events, but sumo has it pretty much the other way round - the bulk of the rikishi's life is his everyday training, and the tournaments are the special days only.

At the risk of shilling, I recommend you look up Kintamayama's interview with Tachiai over on their site (it might be John Gunning's interview, I don't know). He has perhaps the best grasp on sumo culture and thinking that a non-Japanese non-rikishi can ever get (and even better than some combinations of those two traits, even *cough cough Takanohana II*), and you get to read about some really illuminating things on how various sumo insiders themselves view sumo.

Thank you for the recommendation, I will have a read of that. 

[Kaninoyama 1,787]

15 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

He got shafted by having to make space for the lower division yusho interviews, according to Herouth on Twitter.

As well as according to the NHK broadcaster.

But usually, they do katchkoshi interviews for those who secure it with several days still left, and tend to not do it as the end of the basho draws near and it becomes more or less a formality that the rikishi will start to reach it by virtue of the sheer number of bouts. 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Kaninoyama

[Amamaniac 2,079]

11 minutes ago, sumojoann said:

I'm confused about the lack of a KK interview with Hoshoryu.  To my knowledge, he was never interviewed and I'm pretty sure the Japanese announcers were discussing it.  Since I don't understand Japanese, I don't know what was said.  Can a rikishi refuse the KK interview?  Hoshoryu looked kind of angry at the end of his bout so I don't know if that had something to do with him not wanting to do it.  Can anyone enlighten me?

@Seiyashi has already pointed out the reason Hoshoryu did not get a KK interview.  I seriously doubt that Hoshoryu was aware that he would miss out on it, nor do I think that that would have angered him.  The lower division yusho interviews take precedence in NHK's regular day 13 broadcasts; every wrestler is probably aware of that.

If Hoshoryu was angry about anything, it should have been losing the gumbai decision to Akiseyama yesterday.  I'm sure he reviewed the footage and probably saw just how close it was.  

But what I saw on Hoshoryu's face after today's KK victory was machismo.  Kagayaki is no slouch, has plenty of Makuuchi experience, and has been touted by some (sadly, not me) as a future Yokozuna.  So I suspect that Hoshoryu was simply posturing (i.e., showing oozumo fans just how tough he is).

[Seiyashi 4,087]

For the frequency which I'm doing this, I really need a more standardised format.

Currently, the arasoi is: 

• 10-3: Terunofuji, Takayasu
• 9-4: Asanoyama, Takakeisho, Wakatakakage, Aoiyama, Hidenoumi
• 8-5: Hokutofuji, Meisei, Tobizaru, Hoshoryu, Tsurugisho, Chiyonokuni (kyujo)

The key bouts for tomorrow and senshuraku involving 10-3 and 9-4 rikishi would be:

• Day 14: Terunofuji v Asanoyama, Shodai v Takakeisho, Takayasu v Tobizaru, Aoiyama v Wakatakakage, Hidenoumi v Tochinoshin.
• Day 15: Terunofuji v Takakeisho, Asanoyama v Shodai, Takayasu v Takanosho, winner of Aoiyama v Wakatakakage and whoever.

The simplest scenario is to have either Terunofuji or Takayasu eliminating the entire 8-5 group tomorrow, no matter what they do, in one fell swoop simply by winning. Either of them will go to 11-3 with one match left, making a 5-loss record impossible for the yusho. Takakeisho can keep himself one behind the leaders by winning tomorrow, and if he does, he will join either Aoiyama or Wakatakakage who are up simply by virtue of being matched against each other. Hidenoumi could sneak in.

So a possible arasoi tomorrow would be the following. If Asanoyama wins and so does Takayasu, then swap Terunofuji and Takayasu on the leaderboard. Takayasu's current final day opponent would be the highest-ranked remaining sanyaku Takanosho. Given Takanosho still has KK to fight for the matchup is probably on. Ironically, this leaves Terunofuji with an ozeki-like ending to the basho despite being sekiwake, and Takayasu with a sekiwake-like ending to the basho despite being komusubi; it's an accident of an odd number of ozeki but perhaps quite apt given their past ranks and aptitude this basho.

• 11-3: Terunofuji
• 10-4: Takayasu, Asanoyama, Takakeisho, Wakatakakage/Aoiyama

Things get interesting if both Terunofuji and Takayasu lose. For starters, anyone who wins in the 8-5 group will still continue to be in it, giving us an absolute mess of a leaderboard. Asanoyama surges on an incredible late rally and an overturning of his absolutely dismal H2H against Terunofuji to draw level with the leaders, giving him all to play for against Shodai on the last day. But the even worse implication of Asanoyama and Tobizaru winning would be the unexpected elevating of either Aoiyama and Wakatakakage to co-leader. And if Takakeisho also wins over Shodai, then our leaderboard looks awfully crowded for day 14.

• 10-4: Terunofuji, Takayasu, Asanoyama, Aoiyama/Wakatakakage, Takakeisho?
• 9-5: Takakeisho?, Wakatakakage/Aoiyama, Hidenoumi?, winning 8-5 rikishi

If we assume that Takakeisho v Terunofuji is a go for Senshuraku then life is significantly easier if Takakeisho wins tomorrow even if Terunofuji and Takayasu lose, because the final yusho score will be 11-4 and eliminate the entire 9-5 group again. The question is what to do with the upstart Aoiyama and Wakatakakage in that event on senshuraku. If it's the lowly-ranked Aoiyama, that's not too much of a problem because the entire sanyaku is available to face him, although in practice Daieisho is probably going to be the one deputed to head him off, especially if he hasn't secured his KK by senshuraku. Wakatakakage is a much bigger problem, because he's already fought the entire sanyaku; the next best thing is going to be Hokutofuji who mayn't be very motivated having already secured his KK.

If Takakeisho doesn't win tomorrow, then things really get super messy and we have the potential of a 10-5 yusho, which is quite an indictment on the state of things in makuuchi at the moment. But that's a lot of off-chance losses that have to happen to get there, so we'll get there when we do. I think the shimpanbu is going to be fervently praying that either Takayasu or Terunofuji wins tomorrow; both of them losing is going to cause a bit more havoc on senshuraku than we'd traditionally like in our sumo. That said, even at this late stage, there's still potential for a madcap playoff, which even has an outside chance of including Hoshoryu!

Edited March 26, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Seiyashi 4,087]

20 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

But what I saw on Hoshoryu's face after today's KK victory was machismo.  Kagayaki is no slouch, has plenty of Makuuchi experience, and has been touted by some (sadly, not me) as a future Yokozuna.  So I suspect that Hoshoryu was simply posturing (i.e., showing oozumo fans just how tough he is).

For those interested, the face in question was this:

[Atenzan 1,081]

It's perhaps worth mentioning that all of Takayasu's wins this basho, with the exception of out-of-nick Ounoshou, have come against rikishi against whom he had a winning or even record. In his last two honwari bouts he faces Tobizaru (0-1 against) and Takanoshou (1-2 against, Takanoshou has won the last two).

[Eikokurai 3,437]

2 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Oh wow, what the heck was that uchigake from Hoshoryu? He threw Kagayaki from a practically standing, inferior position while being kime-held. That's the most stunning reversal I've seen this entire basho.

That was one of the cleanest gake I’ve seen, uchi or soto. It’s unusual for the winner to stay on his feet, both because he’s taken one foot off the floor and he usually has to use his upper body weight to lean his aite backwards. That takes him over with his opponent. But Hoshoryu hooked the leg so high that the pull was enough to upset Kagayaki’s balance. Brilliant execution.

[sumojoann 1,264]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

@Seiyashi has already pointed out the reason Hoshoryu did not get a KK interview.  I seriously doubt that Hoshoryu was aware that he would miss out on it, nor do I think that that would have angered him.  The lower division yusho interviews take precedence in NHK's regular day 13 broadcasts; every wrestler is probably aware of that.

If Hoshoryu was angry about anything, it should have been losing the gumbai decision to Akiseyama yesterday.  I'm sure he reviewed the footage and probably saw just how close it was.  

But what I saw on Hoshoryu's face after today's KK victory was machismo.  Kagayaki is no slouch, has plenty of Makuuchi experience, and has been touted by some (sadly, not me) as a future Yokozuna.  So I suspect that Hoshoryu was simply posturing (i.e., showing oozumo fans just how tough he is).

Thanks for your answer.  I didn't think he looked angry because he missed out on the KK interview.  I thought he was angry about something else (maybe Kagayaki for some reason) and DIDN'T WANT to do the interview.  And I was curious as to whether the rikishi could say "No" to the interview.  Now I understand that it was just a matter of the announcers not having time due to having to interview the Yusho winners of the lower divisions.  And I have to say I agree with you about the macho look on Hoshoryu's face.  Not anger, just machismo!

[RabidJohn 1,787]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

For those interested, the face in question was this:

For me, that could just as easily be Hoshoryu clenching his jaw so as not to whoop with exhilaration after that fabulous winning move he's just pulled off. Got to maintain hinkaku.

You've only got to compare images of Takakeisho on and off the dohyo. His hinkaku face looks generally miserable and petulant, nothing like the smiling, amiable looking young chap you see at other times. Off-dohyo Hoshoryu looks very different just with his glasses on, never mind when he smiles.

Looks can be extremely deceiving. Back in the early eighties girls in the UK went wild for Adam Ant, frontman of Adam and the Ants. My sister told me it was the way he looked while he was performing; he had gorgeous, blue, come-to-bed eyes apparently.
Ironically, Adam himself couldn't see that 'look' in a mirror. Not without his milk-bottle-bottom glasses on, which completely transformed 'the look', I can tell you. 
So his alluring visual appeal was actually down to him peering blindly at the audience/cameras.

[Seiyashi 4,087]

17 minutes ago, sumojoann said:

I thought he was angry about something else (maybe Kagayaki for some reason) and DIDN'T WANT to do the interview.  And I was curious as to whether the rikishi could say "No" to the interview.  Now I understand that it was just a matter of the announcers not having time due to having to interview the Yusho winners of the lower divisions. 

I think there have been a couple of occasions where rikishi declined to be interviewed, or happened to be unavailable when they should have been. The most recent occasion I can remember is last year where the culprits were apparently Takakeisho, Mitakeumi and Asanoyama; Ajigawa (ex-Aminishiki) had to publicly but indirectly chastise them about causing trouble for the oyakata and putting the journos' efforts to waste. But I don't think those were KK interviews; most hiramaku wrestlers probably wouldn't mind being interviewed after a KK as it's a rare occasion they get the spotlight.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Rocks 1,809]

Sweet reversal by Oho to get his KK and return to juryo. The little smile afterwards was perfect. 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

Most of the attention here on the Forum today has been directed at the bouts involving yusho contenders, and ... the outstanding performance by Hoshoryu (and rightly so).  Forgive me for shifting gears, but there were some less pleasant developments that should not be overlooked:

(1) On the NHK broadcast a few days ago, I heard Ross Mihara claim that bow twirler Shohoryu (not related to Hoshoryu, all be he easily confused with Hoshoryu) was on Juryo's doorstep and doing well in this tournament.  FYI, he actually went makekoshi on day 11, and is currently sitting at 2-4.  Looks like the bow twirler's curse will live another day.  Just how far down the banzuke he goes in May will depend on whether he wins or loses his final bout (Captain Obvious reporting).

(2) When Endo Enho entered the stadium for his bout today, he was sporting a heavy-duty supporter (à la Hakuho) on his left arm.  Not a good sign, especially since he looked so strong and injury-free at the start of the tournament.  Injured or not, he didn't stand a chance today against Takagenji, who played him the way he got played in the Top Division a couple of tournaments ago.  Back to the drawing board for Enho.  But at least he has his kachikoshi.

(3) A little more troubling was seeing Midorifuji limp onto the ring during the Top Division ring entering ceremony.  I was screaming at the screen: "What are you doing, man?!"  Come bout time, the limp was gone.  But when I saw that he was up against heavy-weight Kaisei, I renewed my screams of "What are you doing, man?!"  That bout was over in 2.3 seconds. Suffice it to say that little Midorifuji never stood a chance!

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Amamaniac

[Philioyamfugi 378]

I guess Takayasu calf touched first, I thought he won first time watching. Setting up for a thrilling Sensuraku !

[Seiyashi 4,087]

2 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Sweet reversal by Oho to get his KK and return to juryo. The little smile afterwards was perfect. 

I've committed this crime elsewhere, but I can't help myself; he must have gone "oho"...

2 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

(1) On the NHK broadcast a few days ago, I heard Ross Mihara claim that bow twirler Shohoryu (not related to Hoshoryu, all be he easily confused with Hoshoryu) was on Juryo's doorstep and doing well in this tournament.  FYI, he actually went makekoshi on day 11, and is currently sitting at 2-4.  Looks like the bow twirler's curse will live another day.  Just how far down the banzuke he goes in May will depend on whether he wins or loses his final bout (Captain Obvious reporting).

The good news for him is that with Kakuryu's retirement, he's no longer a bow twirler and - being within reach of sekitori and no longer a bow twirler yet benefiting from its flexibility, he might just be able to make it next basho.

3 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

(2) When Endo entered the stadium for his bout today, he was sporting a heavy-duty supporter (à la Hakuho) on his left arm.  Not a good sign, especially since he looked so strong and injury-free at the start of the tournament.  Injured or not, he didn't stand a chance today against Takagenji, who played him the way he got played in the Top Division a couple of tournaments ago.  Back to the drawing board for Enho.  But at least he has his kachikoshi.

I believe you mean Enho, since Endo is kyujo and hasn't re-entered. Has he stolen one of Hakuho's armbands?

3 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

(3) A little more troubling was seeing Midorifuji limp onto the ring during the Top Division ring entering ceremony.  I was screaming at the screen: "What are you doing, man?!  Come bout time, the limp was gone.  But when I saw that he was up against heavy-weight Kaisei, I renewed my screams of "What are you doing, man?!"  That bout was over in 2.3 seconds. Suffice it to say that little Midorifuji never stood a chance!

Midorifuji isn't the only idiot in this respect. Ura and Kotoshoho are almost as bad; worse still, Kotoshoho managed to beat Terutsuyoshi so he won't be seeing the folly of his ways. We can thank Mitakeumi's 8-3-4 Kantosho and Kiribayama's KK for being really bad examples, but sumo is sumo.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

2 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I believe you mean Enho, since Endo is kyujo and hasn't re-entered. Has he stolen one of Hakuho's armbands?

I'm always mixing up those two names.  Did I ever mention my dyslexia?   

[Seiyashi 4,087]

2 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

5 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I believe you mean Enho, since Endo is kyujo and hasn't re-entered. Has he stolen one of Hakuho's armbands?

I'm always mixing up those two names.  Did I ever mention my dyslexia?   

 In fairness, it would have been hot goss if Endo had sneakily returned and won a bout we still don't know about.

[Joaoiyama 308]

12-3 Terunofuji-Takayasu playoff 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

4 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

The good news for him is that with Kakuryu's retirement, he's no longer a bow twirler and - being within reach of sekitori and no longer a bow twirler yet benefiting from its flexibility, he might just be able to make it next basho.

Exactly what are the "terms and regulations" for the yumitorishiki curse?  Is it that those selected to do the bow twirl are cursed for the rest of their fighting career, or is it that no one has been able to reach sekitori ranks while serving as a bow twirler?  My impression was that the former is the case, but I'm open to being corrected.  

Shohoryu was sooooo close last basho!  If only he hadn't lost his final regulation bout against Nishikifuji!  

#"When the bow breaks, the Makushita joi wrestler will fall..."

[Joaoiyama 308]

Some people say Hoshoryu lacks the speed or power of his uncle, what i believe he lacks is the intensity and complete confidence. The "no one can beat me" mentality.

On another note, i find his sumo is more like Kakuryu's style.