March basho 2021

[Seiyashi 4,108]

7 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

20 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

The good news for him is that with Kakuryu's retirement, he's no longer a bow twirler and - being within reach of sekitori and no longer a bow twirler yet benefiting from its flexibility, he might just be able to make it next basho.

Exactly what are the "terms and regulations" for the yumitorishiki curse?  Is it that those selected to do the bow twirl are cursed for the rest of their fighting career, or is it that no one has been able to reach sekitori ranks while serving as a bow twirler?  My impression was that the former is the case, but I'm open to being corrected.  

Shohoryu was sooooo close last basho!  If only he hadn't lost his final regulation bout against Nishikifuji!  

#"When the bow breaks, the Makushita joi wrestler will fall..."

My understanding is the former as well. But I love a good loophole story, and it'd be nice to see Shohoryu make it (and he might, if he can get a little extra coaching from a fresh Kakuryu oyakata). And there are at least two documented cases of a yumitorishiki performer who made it to sekitori, one of whom continued even in juryo: Tomoefuji in 1990 and Oga in 2006. Tomoefuji even made it all the way to komusubi, although his makuuchi career was dogged by injuries. So the exact wording of the curse has been broken before, leaving it a really strong jinx at best.

Which puts me in mind of a related question: who did the bow twirling during the yokozuna interregnum in 1992? Was it a (former) tsukebito of one of the retired yokozunas?

Edited March 26, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Amamaniac 2,079]

7 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

10 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

13 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I believe you mean Enho, since Endo is kyujo and hasn't re-entered. Has he stolen one of Hakuho's armbands?

I'm always mixing up those two names.  Did I ever mention my dyslexia?   

 In fairness, it would have been hot goss if Endo had sneakily returned and won a bout we still don't know about.

Hot goss or not, in my mind, "Endo" is ... yesterday's news.  I know that may be an unpopular view among Endo fans here on the Forum.  And I mean them no disrespect.  I remember back when he and Ichinojo broke into the Top Division, and both wrestlers stunk of stardom.  I was truly impressed.

Granted, Endo has done significantly better than Ichi, and granted Endo has better than average technique, but I've been waiting for that breakthrough, and it just hasn't come.  

And speaking of interviews, Endo always seems as though he'd rather be somewhere else.  I can respect that he lets his sumo speak for itself.  I just wish it would speak a little louder!

[Akinomaki 40,774]

7 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Exactly what are the "terms and regulations" for the yumitorishiki curse?  Is it that those selected to do the bow twirl are cursed for the rest of their fighting career, or is it that no one has been able to reach sekitori ranks while serving as a bow twirler?  My impression was that the former is the case, but I'm open to being corrected.  

Shohoryu was sooooo close last basho!  If only he hadn't lost his final regulation bout against Nishikifuji!  

#"When the bow breaks, the Makushita joi wrestler will fall..."

On 23/04/2016 at 18:08, Akinomaki said:

I think we can use a thread for this to collect all the curses and their relation to reality.
Just now mentioned was the curse about the yumitori rikishi, an especially sinister one that lives up again as soon as it is broken, already by the first 2 yumitori performers.

On 23/04/2016 at 15:52, Dapeng said:

  On 22/04/2016 at 19:47, Nantonoyama said:

  On 22/04/2016 at 17:26, Dapeng said:

There was a curse about the yumitori: the rikishi who does yumitori would never be promoted to sekitori. This curse was broken some years ago.

If I remeember well, the rikishi who broke the curse was Oga

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=247

Sure. Newspapers reported his promotion and claimed that he broke the curse "yumitorishiki man unable reaching jurio".

On 22/04/2016 at 20:25, Akinomaki said:

Tomoefuji is an earlier and more successful example

The list of all about 40-50(double entries, without Kasugaryu yet), with 8 who made it to sekitori: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/弓取式#.E5.BC.93.E5.8F.96.E3.82.8A.E5.8A.9B.E5.A3.AB
quite a good percentage

The curse thus is: a yumi-tori rikishi won't make it to ozeki - or if you see a big rank difference towards komusubi: to sekiwake

and: doing the yumitori-shiki doesn't really improve the chance of getting to sekitori

 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

2 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

The curse thus is: a yumi-tori rikishi won't make it to ozeki

Sorry, but that's about the most ridiculous term & regulation for an oozumo curse.  The odds are already super slim that any old wrestler who enters the sport will "make it to Ozeki".  Then you add the limited number of individuals who have been yumitori rikishi to the equation, and you've got yourself a sure bet!  And it's even more of a sure bet when one considers that the men selected in the first place are believed to lack promotion potential (or at least, so I've heard).

[Seiyashi 4,108]

1 minute ago, Akinomaki said:

The list of all about 40-50(double entries, without Kasugaryu yet), with 8 who made it to sekitori: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/弓取式#.E5.BC.93.E5.8F.96.E3.82.8A.E5.8A.9B.E5.A3.AB
quite a good percentage

That conveniently also answers my question about the interregnum from Natsu 1992 to Hatsu 1993. Hokutoasahi (of Oshima stable, same as just-retired yokozuna Asahifuji) continued to perform it up till Nagoya 1992, when Takamiwaka (of Azumazeki stable) took over.

I assume Takamiwaka was picked because of his connection to Akebono - was that because everyone expected Akebono to be the next yokozuna a full 6 months before his promotion? He'd only just been promoted from sekiwake and went kyujo in his first ozeki basho, but it appears that he was the best chance for yokozuna compared to Kirishima and Konishiki who were both turning in mediocre results as ozeki - was that the logic?

[Seiyashi 4,108]

1 minute ago, Amamaniac said:

Sorry, but that's about the most ridiculous term & regulation for an oozumo curse.  The odds are already super slim that any old wrestler who enters the sport will "make it to Ozeki".  Then you add the limited number of individuals who have been yumitori rikishi to the equation, and you've got yourself a sure bet!  And it's even more of a sure bet when one considers that the men selected in the first place are believed to lack promotion potential (or at least, so I've heard).

Chill a little - the JA wiki just says "Performers of the yumitorishiki are said in the sumo world to be jinxed not to become sekitori".

[Ender Wiggin 43]

4 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Takayasu. 

Is it a choke to lose a close fought match that should've been a monoii and possibly a torinaoshi?

[Seiyashi 4,108]

11 minutes ago, Ender Wiggin said:

Is it a choke to lose a close fought match that should've been a monoii and possibly a torinaoshi?

No, but the net effect can't be denied. I think this is a bit of the "heaps of sand" question - if you've choked, but this bout isn't a choke, then which bouts are a choke?

It also depends on how you define the choke. True, the final technique was close, but Takayasu had two clear occasions to finish off Wakatakakage in the bout itself and didn't make it clean enough, or was just not as good as he needed to be.

I would call the bout with Shodai chokier than this, but he could well afford to lose at the time. But then again, the mark of a champion is to not lose bouts you don't need to, so maybe that was a choke.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Yamanashi 3,903]

6 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Third face shove in a row by Aoiyama. At this rate he's going to get a technique named after him. 

Somebody pissed this guy off.  He always seemed to be more Kaisei than Terunofuji in demeanor, but he's been brutal this basho.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

1 hour ago, Ender Wiggin said:

Is it a choke to lose a close fought match that should've been a monoii and possibly a torinaoshi?

The choke joke referred to losing a two-bout lead.

(And no, no mono-ii was necessary and if one had been called a torinaoshi wouldn’t have been the result.)

Edited March 26, 2021 by Eikokurai

[Seiyashi 4,108]

3 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Most of the attention here on the Forum today has been directed at the bouts involving yusho contenders, and ... the outstanding performance by Hoshoryu (and rightly so).  Forgive me for shifting gears, but there were some less pleasant developments that should not be overlooked:

(4) From the lower divisions: Sd65e Hibikiryu was knocked out cold on the dohyo at the conclusion of his bout today. His opponent, Imafuku, attempted a sukuinage that ended in Hibikiryu hitting his head against the tawara. Hibikiryu could not stand and collapsed, and it took a minute for three yobidashi to enter the dohyo and try and rouse him. A right circus developed: the shimpan were standing up, camera crews around, other oyakata and sewanin, about 30 people in all. Eventually, Takekuma (ex Goeido) led a team of oyakata and yobidashi in stretchering Hibikiryu off the dohyo, although for a while there was confusion over whether one or two stretchers was needed. The tweet which captured images of this also reported that a doctor was on the dohyo when he was stretchered off. Unfortunately, and potentially worryingly, the NSK revealed that Hibikiryu could speak but was numb and could not move from below the neck. An ambulance was called.

Nikkan has a full report of the event: 響龍が俵に激しく頭部ぶつける　動けず救急搬送 - 大相撲 : 日刊スポーツ (nikkansports.com)

Edited March 26, 2021 by Seiyashi

[dada78641 884]

4 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

(4) From the lower divisions: Sd65e Hibikiryu was knocked out cold on the dohyo at the conclusion of his bout today. His opponent, Imafuku, attempted a sukuinage that ended in Hibikiryu hitting his head against the tawara. Hibikiryu could not stand and collapsed, and it took a minute for three yobidashi to enter the dohyo and try and rouse him. A right circus developed: the shimpan were standing up, camera crews around, other oyakata and sewanin, about 30 people in all. Eventually, Takekuma (ex Goeido) led a team of oyakata and yobidashi in stretchering Hibikiryu off the dohyo, although for a while there was confusion over whether one or two stretchers was needed. The tweet which captured images of this also reported that a doctor was on the dohyo when he was stretchered off. Unfortunately, and potentially worryingly, the NSK revealed that Hibikiryu could speak but was numb and could not move from below the neck. An ambulance was called.

Nikkan has a full report of the event: 響龍が俵に激しく頭部ぶつける　動けず救急搬送 - 大相撲 : 日刊スポーツ (nikkansports.com)

Here's a photo:

(Source)

Crazy that there's still no good policy in place to quickly and effectively help wrestlers when they sustain injuries or get knocked out on the dohyo. When something like this happens the priority should be to immediately get a doctor's opinion on what to do, and then do it right away. You can't just leave them lying there.

Ran a search on Twitter and people are rightly upset that it took so long for help to arrive. Some say it reminds them of the Shunannoumi situation from last basho.

[since_94 650]

2 hours ago, Ender Wiggin said:

Is it a choke to lose a close fought match that should've been a monoii and possibly a torinaoshi?

Good question, and pertinent. The answer is, no, it is not. But from the replay, the top of one of Takayasu’s feet appeared to touch the clay before Wakatakakage went down and out. It was close, though.

Edited March 26, 2021 by since_94

[Seiyashi 4,108]

37 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

You can't just leave them lying there.

Sometimes, this is the right thing to do until you get in formal medical advice and actual paramedics with the right equipment. It's fairly common knowledge that when you happen across a fairly catastrophic accident like a car crash, you do not move anyone unless they're at risk of catching fire or something similar and actually dying from where they are on the spot, because of the risk of exacerbating neck injuries and causing permanent damage.

Leaving someone lying there for 5 minutes while you get the help might look bad, but if the NSK had had the right equipment it wouldn't be as bad if you had paramedics come out later who knew what they were doing, on with the neck brace, etcetc. It is not good when your solution after 5 mins is have a bumbling crew come out, however well-intentioned, that has to debate how best to get the chap onto a stretcher.

This vaguely reminds me of my military days where I had a fresh medic during an outfield assessment. He was unfortunately taped taking a relative eternity (>10 mins) to open and setup a stretcher, and much embarrassment was had all around - but then no one was actually dying or injured back then.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Seiyashi

[apraxin 56]

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/e82540fa341bc359f672021317ee73ecad8cac04

Yahoo article quotes Shibatayama as saying that Hibikryu is concussed and has injured his cervical vertebrae - 'it's possible pressure was applied to the nerves there' - which is not somehting I like to hear.

Edited March 26, 2021 by apraxin

[Seiyashi 4,108]

8 minutes ago, apraxin said:

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/e82540fa341bc359f672021317ee73ecad8cac04

Yahoo article quotes Shibatayama as saying that Hibikryu is concussed and has injured his cervical vertebrae - 'it's possible pressure was applied to the nerves there' - which is not somehting I like to hear.

I just checked the video of the bout by Chris Sumo just before the injury. The freezeframe is essentially Hibikiryu taking a headdive into the tawara, so that's a concussion from hitting the tawara and a spinal injury from the rest of his body weight piling into his neck.

If any one wants to see it for themselves it's here: March 2021, Day 13: Title race hots up after chilling first aid fiasco - YouTube

Edited March 26, 2021 by Seiyashi

[robnplunder 976]

10 hours ago, word20 said:

Mitakeumi has not been able to reach Ozeki and now he is 5 - 7. in my opinion he will not reach Ozeki if he continue as he has done until now. We see when he goes up against Asanoyama that he seems not to be at Ozeki level now. The question is if he he able to reach Ozeki, hsa he the capacity to do it?

I have been following his career from the start.  He had two yushos under his belt but does not seem to be good enough to be an Ozeki.   As much as I like Mitakeumi (and Daieisho), he will be a sanyuku regular and no more.

[dada78641 884]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

Sometimes, this is the right thing to do until you get in formal medical advice and actual paramedics with the right equipment.

C'mon now, that's not why they sat there doing nothing. They waited because the normal procedure is to just leave them lying there until they get back up on their own.

[Seiyashi 4,108]

2 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

C'mon now, that's not why they sat there doing nothing. They waited because the normal procedure is to just leave them lying there until they get back up on their own.

Yes, I did say in that post that if they left them there to wait for the experts, that's fine, but what they did - wait for a bunch of oyakata and a stretcher - definitely wasn't up to par by any standard.

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

5 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

12 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Third face shove in a row by Aoiyama. At this rate he's going to get a technique named after him. 

Somebody pissed this guy off.  He always seemed to be more Kaisei than Terunofuji in demeanor, but he's been brutal this basho.

Once in each calendar year, Aoiyama decides to go on the rampage:

July 2017: 13-2 jun-yusho, kanto-sho

November 2018: 11-4

March 2019: 12-3 kanto-sho

March 2020: 11-4 gino-sho

March 2021: 9-4 and counting

It may be down to the phases of the moon, or the water level of the Tundzha river, or the availability of rakia in Japan, but when Big Dan is in one of his moods you have to watch out.

[Karasukurai 166]

4 hours ago, dada78641 said:

Crazy that there's still no good policy in place to quickly and effectively help wrestlers when they sustain injuries or get knocked out on the dohyo.

Absolutely. 100%. There should be a trained medic at the dohyo with suitable equipment like back-boards and neck-braces at hand with people trained in their use. I'm convinced now that the only thing that will enable this to happen is some poor rikishi suing the Sumo Association for  damages due to a lack of care after sustaining life changing injuries. This level of medical care just doesn't cut it in the 21st century. No excuses, whether they are based on 'tradition', 'religion' or 'culture'.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

As for day 13's development with regard to Enho (i.e., the heavy supporter on his left arm), it is highly likely that his elbow was injured by the nasty kotenage Nishikifuji executed on day 12.  Bit of bad luck there for Enho: a loss and an injury, which will probably negatively impact his performance in the last few days of this tournament...  While he has 8 wins, without a few more, I seriously doubt he will end up back in the Top Division in May.  Sigh.

When will they make kotenage (arm bar throws) illegal?  Answer: probably never.  The only solution available is for wrestlers to learn how to avoid falling prey to the technique!!!

I suppose the general principle behind the contact sport of sumo is: "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!"

Edited March 26, 2021 by Amamaniac

[lackmaker 438]

48 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Once in each calendar year, Aoiyama decides to go on the rampage:

July 2017: 13-2 jun-yusho, kanto-sho

November 2018: 11-4

March 2019: 12-3 kanto-sho

March 2020: 11-4 gino-sho

March 2021: 9-4 and counting

It may be down to the phases of the moon, or the water level of the Tundzha river, or the availability of rakia in Japan, but when Big Dan is in one of his moods you have to watch out.

Does this coincide with when he's drifted low enough down the rankings to have relatively easy pickings?

[hakutorizakura 643]

So... the final 2 bouts of today featured effectively the 4 top rikishi. Maybe somewhat underwhelming by certain standards, but I for one will try to get used to it. Those are probably going to be the typical Y/O vs Y/O bout for the next few bashos.

Unless Hoshoryu finds his uncle beast mode and shoots up the banzuke 

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

19 minutes ago, lackmaker said:

Does this coincide with when he's drifted low enough down the rankings to have relatively easy pickings?

Not really. See last basho for instance.