YDC meeting after Haru 2021

[Asojima 2,874]

27 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

The Shuukan Gendai is reporting that the YDC has been quietly asked yesterday to convene a special meeting by the rijikai. "We have been asked to convene and discuss the special situation that has arisen with the repromotion of Terunofuji to Ozeki with a yusho. As the banzuke is nearing a possibility of being sans- Yokozunae, we have been asked to see if Terunofuji can possibly be promoted to Yokozuna if he gets the yusho in a convincing fashion next basho as well. I am aware that this has never happened before and that the guidelines are two consecutive yushos at Ozeki. I am also aware that what  Terunofuji has achieved through extreme hardship has never happened before either. Looking at his record before he dropped from Ozeki, he had a jun-yusho the last basho he completed fully, which can be counted as a yusho equivalent. It does seem difficult, but we have been asked to look into this and we will. I personally think it should be at least discussed. I do feel it would be a great impetus to other rikishi and will be good PR for sumo, and will surely be accepted as a positive story by the public, if and when it comes to that. Terunofuji still needs to get a yusho, though..," explained YDC chairman Yano. "Terunofuji is the strongest current Ozeki, " said Shibatayama PR man when questioned about this. "No comment", said Oguruma Oyakata. Takadagawa judging chief did not answer reporters. "This would never ever have even been considered in my days," said colorful ex-YDC member Ms. Uchidate. "He essentially faced everyone an Ozeki faces and got the yusho, so tradition aside, a request for a discussion is not that far-fetched," said long time sumo aficionado  Yaku Mitsuru.

Another blast from the past.....

[Kintamayama 45,161]

3 minutes ago, Asojima said:

Another blast from the past.....

Indeed. But I believe this time it may really happen, as the situation is different.

[RabidJohn 1,793]

3 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Wow, the NSK and YDC potentially going against tradition? Wonders will never cease!

... If they do this for him it also cheapens his attainment of the rope, if any, because people will always say they bent the rules for him. 

 

On 30/03/2021 at 12:17, RabidJohn said:

Another win in May would be back-to-back yusho. The more I think about that, the more I believe the NSK and YDC would breathe a collective sigh of relief, and send the envoys around to Isegahama-heya again. Get some mileage out of him while those knees last.

Speculated here first.

If (and it is a very big if) Terunofuji wins again in May, I believe the back-to-back yusho will count for more than sticking to so-called rules.

And those 'rules' have been bent so many times. Just a few examples: Chiyonofuji did not have back-to-back yusho for his promotion, Onokuni only had 1 yusho, and Futahaguro didn't have any. More recently Kakuryu only managed a D+Y for his promotion, and Kisenosato got the rope for a series of J+1Y. 

Rules? What rules?

"Is this rikishi worthy of promotion to yokozuna?" is a question with a binary answer. A yusho in May will mean the answer is yes for Terunofuji.

[Seiyashi 4,097]

6 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Speculated here first.

If (and it is a very big if) Terunofuji wins again in May, I believe the back-to-back yusho will count for more than sticking to so-called rules.

And those 'rules' have been bent so many times. Just a few examples: Chiyonofuji did not have back-to-back yusho for his promotion, Onokuni only had 1 yusho, and Futahaguro didn't have any. More recently Kakuryu only managed a D+Y for his promotion, and Kisenosato got the rope for a series of J+1Y. 

Rules? What rules?

"Is this rikishi worthy of promotion to yokozuna?" is a question with a binary answer. A yusho in May will mean the answer is yes for Terunofuji.

Normally I would agree. But here we're not quibbling about the yusho or equivalent performance, but the requirement that you be ozeki for the considered basho.

I'd contend Terunofuji ticks the "Is this rikishi putting up yokozuna-worthy results", but not "Is this rikishi worthy of being fast tracked to yokozuna". The examples you cite were all known peformers who had every indication of going on to be good performers even if they suffered the odd injury here and there. As for Terunofuji, his health being a known concern, it'll be a poisoned chalice if he makes the rope on lenient conditions only to not impress at the rank - then people will be wondering, you broke the rules for this? Whereas if he makes the rope the usual way and then his knees give out, people will understand and it adds to his story, not detracts from it. It's universally agreed that Tochinoshin didn't impress at ozeki, but almost everyone understands his body was at the end of the line when he was promoted anyway, having managed the biggest comeback to ozeki before Terunofuji.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Seiyashi

[since_94 650]

If I was Terunofuji, I would hope they decided against fast tracking a Y promotion. You don’t want to be the guy in history with an asterisk next to his name for something like that, I wouldn’t think. 

[RabidJohn 1,793]

11 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

As for Terunofuji, his health being a known concern, it'll be a poisoned chalice if he makes the rope on lenient conditions only to not impress at the rank - then people will be wondering, you broke the rules for this?

In the case of most other rikishi, I'd agree, but Terunofuji is not most other rikishi. He was ozeki, then he fell to jonidan as a result of catastrophic (mismanagement of) injury to his knees, then he fought all the way back up to retake his rank officially in the manner we've just all seen. You call that "lenient conditions"?

Back-to-back yusho are next to impossible anyway, which is probably why the rikishi who manage it nearly always get the rope.

Isegahama-san again referred to Terunofuji's knees as a "ticking bomb" in the press conference yesterday. There little doubt that his career is not expected to last much longer no matter what happens. The NSK and YDC recognise this. July is probably going to be Hakuho's last basho, and Kakuryu has gone... 

I don't believe Terunofuji would be overly troubled by being one of the shortest lived yokozuna ever, either. Y gives him 2 years more time to get a kabu than O.

[Seiyashi 4,097]

1 minute ago, RabidJohn said:

You call that "lenient conditions"?

2 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I don't believe Terunofuji would be overly troubled by being one of the shortest lived yokozuna ever, either. Y gives him 2 years more time to get a kabu than O.

The lenient conditions doesn't refer to his comeback, but the conditions under which he takes the rope. My point is that while he is yokozuna-worthy as a pinnacle rank achievement, it cheapens his story and qualifies his achievement if he makes it because the YDC bends the rules. If he is determined to make his ozeki promotion irreproachable beyond a doubt, to save his stablemaster from any whispers of favouritism, do you really think he'd be happy to have the rules bent for him?

Again, I'm not doubting his resolve to have come back from injury, nor that he's worthy to be yokozuna going by his results since his makuuchi return, nor his recent results, nor the benefits of being yokozuna (which, by the way, 2 years means sod all if he has yet to obtain citizenship) or whether he entertains any illusions about the length of any rope tenure. As since_94 said, you really don't want to be the guy who achieves the rope and has the asterisk next to your name for good in that way.

Do his achievements make it plausible to bend the rules for him? Maybe. Should the rules be bent for him? Against the strength of his results, I'd say no, because there's no point bending the rules for someone who isn't likely to be a long-lived yokozuna and whose story will be all the stronger if he gets to the rope the usual way.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Interesting to see that at least it’s up for discussion, though forsaking tradition and accepting the argument that he faced all the same opponents as an Ozeki opens other cans of worms. Junior sanyaku always face the same opponents, but we’ve seen Komusubi records be treated more lightly than Sekiwake ones in Ozeki runs, so why count a Sekiwake record toward a Yokozuna run? People could reasonably ask for this sort of ‘inflation’ (deflation?) of records to run all the way down the banzuke.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Eikokurai

[Seiyashi 4,097]

11 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Interesting to see that at least it’s up for discussion, though forsaking tradition and accepting the argument that he faced all the same opponents as an Ozeki opens other cans of worms. Junior sanyaku always face the same opponents, but we’ve seen Komusubi records be treated more lightly than Sekiwake ones in Ozeki runs, so why count a Sekiwake record toward a Yokozuna run? People could reasonably ask for this sort of ‘inflation’ (deflation?) of records to run all the way down the banzuke.

As I've previously argued, the joi and sanyaku effectively form upper makuuchi with a pseudo-round-robin matchup. I guess it's just a matter of where you draw the line to say where you start counting yusho from. There is some precedent for allowing strong joi results in lieu of sanyaku placings for ozeki promotion, so it's not exactly entirely novel to consider pre-ozeki results for yokozuna.

[Kintamayama 45,161]

20 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Interesting to see that at least it’s up for discussion, though forsaking tradition and accepting the argument that he faced all the same opponents as an Ozeki opens other cans of worms. 

That was said by cartoonist Yaku Mitsuru, not the YDC or anyone affiliated. To clear things up,  Yaku is not a current YDC member.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Kintamayama

[Eikokurai 3,437]

25 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

That was said by cartoonist Yaku Mitsuru, not the YDC or anyone affiliated. To clear things up,  Yaku is not a current YDC member.

I didn’t read closely enough to pick that out. Thanks.

[Oortael 153]

5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

The Shuukan Gendai is reporting that the YDC has been quietly asked yesterday to convene a special meeting by the rijikai. "We have been asked to convene and discuss the special situation that has arisen with the repromotion of Terunofuji to Ozeki with a yusho. As the banzuke is nearing a possibility of being sans- Yokozunae, we have been asked to see if Terunofuji can possibly be promoted to Yokozuna if he gets the yusho in a convincing fashion next basho as well. I am aware that this has never happened before and that the guidelines are two consecutive yushos at Ozeki. I am also aware that what  Terunofuji has achieved through extreme hardship has never happened before either. Looking at his record before he dropped from Ozeki, he had a jun-yusho the last basho he completed fully, which can be counted as a yusho equivalent. It does seem difficult, but we have been asked to look into this and we will. I personally think it should be at least discussed. I do feel it would be a great impetus to other rikishi and will be good PR for sumo, and will surely be accepted as a positive story by the public, if and when it comes to that. Terunofuji still needs to get a yusho, though..," explained YDC chairman Yano. "Terunofuji is the strongest current Ozeki, " said Shibatayama PR man when questioned about this. "No comment", said Oguruma Oyakata. Takadagawa judging chief did not answer reporters. "This would never ever have even been considered in my days," said colorful ex-YDC member Ms. Uchidate. "He essentially faced everyone an Ozeki faces and got the yusho, so tradition aside, a request for a discussion is not that far-fetched," said long time sumo aficionado  Yaku Mitsuru.

If it is indeed the case, I'd be very positively surprised that the NSK is willing to circumvent the rules to promote their sport.

Obviously you are among the bringer of Japanese news to us (non Japanese-speaking fans), and there's no reason to question your reporting. But am I the only one finding it weird this kinda news happen on April 1st ?

[Godango 996]

Just now, Oortael said:

Obviously you are among the bringer of Japanese news to us (non Japanese-speaking fans), and there's no reason to question your reporting. But am I the only one finding it weird this kinda news happen on April 1st ?

I assumed this was an April Fools case, and am alarmed people are taking it seriously.

...or am I the fool here?

[RabidJohn 1,793]

Consider me fooled...

@Kintamayama Nice one!

Edited April 1, 2021 by RabidJohn

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Hmm. Don’t you have to do the prank before noon or it doesn’t count? 

[Yaochozuna 137]

Gosh, I really believed that. Subconsciously, something was ticking in my head. After looking back to the original news I realised it was the lack of a link. But that was only slight and subconscious. On the consciousness level I believed every word. Well done, my man @Kintamayama, well done…

[Kintamayama 45,161]

23 minutes ago, Yaochozuna said:

Gosh, I really believed that. Subconsciously, something was ticking in my head. After looking back to the original news I realised it was the lack of a link. But that was only slight and subconscious. On the consciousness level I believed every word. Well done, my man @Kintamayama, well done…

I never, ever post a link on my translations, to the chagrin of some members of this forum, since i usually use more than one source. Never.. And why well done? Inedible. I prefer medium rare.

[Kintamayama 45,161]

45 minutes ago, Houmanumi said:

I assumed this was an April Fools case, and am alarmed people are taking it seriously.

...or am I the fool here?

Alarmed? 

[Kintamayama 45,161]

47 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Hmm. Don’t you have to do the prank before noon or it doesn’t count? 

It has to be back to back pranks or the equivalent. It's always before noon somewhere in the world. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 45,161]

48 minutes ago, Oortael said:

 

 it weird this kinda news happen on April 1st ?

Is it April 1st already?

[Yaochozuna 137]

33 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

I never, ever post a link on my translations, to the chagrin of some members of this forum, since i usually use more than one source. Never.. And why well done? Inedible. I prefer medium rare.

Okay, well played then

[nagora 88]

Very good. Just plausible enough :)

[Kintamayama 45,161]

7 hours ago, nagora said:

Very good. Just plausible enough :)

It's all in the small details..

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,274]

48 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

It's all in the small details..

Exactly right! Nothing small about Orora.

[Yamanashi 3,860]

19 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

The Shuukan Gendai is reporting that the YDC has been quietly asked yesterday to convene a special meeting by the rijikai. "We have been asked to convene and discuss the special situation that has arisen with the repromotion of Terunofuji to Ozeki with a yusho. As the banzuke is nearing a possibility of being sans- Yokozunae, we have been asked to see if Terunofuji can possibly be promoted to Yokozuna if he gets the yusho in a convincing fashion next basho as well. I am aware that this has never happened before and that the guidelines are two consecutive yushos at Ozeki. I am also aware that what  Terunofuji has achieved through extreme hardship has never happened before either. Looking at his record before he dropped from Ozeki, he had a jun-yusho the last basho he completed fully, which can be counted as a yusho equivalent. It does seem difficult, but we have been asked to look into this and we will. I personally think it should be at least discussed. I do feel it would be a great impetus to other rikishi and will be good PR for sumo, and will surely be accepted as a positive story by the public, if and when it comes to that. Terunofuji still needs to get a yusho, though..," explained YDC chairman Yano. "Terunofuji is the strongest current Ozeki, " said Shibatayama PR man when questioned about this. "No comment", said Oguruma Oyakata. Takadagawa judging chief did not answer reporters. "This would never ever have even been considered in my days," said colorful ex-YDC member Ms. Uchidate. "He essentially faced everyone an Ozeki faces and got the yusho, so tradition aside, a request for a discussion is not that far-fetched," said long time sumo aficionado  Yaku Mitsuru.

 

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OK, April Fools prank. But not a bad one, if i may so myself.. I think a few people are upset.. Apologies, but we used to do this a lot here back in the day..

For me, the tell was the run of simple, declarative sentences. "That can't be a Japanese translation, it's ... wait 1/4/2021? ... Kintamayamaaaaa!"