Seiyashi 4,097 Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, yohcun said: 51 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said: Asahisho once gave Takagenji an extra thrust to the face because he didn't like his manners. As in, the two I probably should have disjoined, since it implied that Asahisho was in Miyagino, but I was thinking more of in addition to Asahisho who would do it on a general point of principle regardless of stable, Miyagino rikishi might also want to take up cudgels, as it were, against Takagenji. It's a huge pity that didn't happen in the makuuchi joi. It would have been wonderful if Takagenji would be up next against Hakuho. That would be one match I would cheer every single kachiage, harite, nekodamashi, and other trick in the book that Hakuho can pull out. Edited July 5, 2021 by Seiyashi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
since_94 650 Posted July 5, 2021 35 minutes ago, junsan said: I'm all for a Takagenji suspension after that dispaly. This nutjob might be the same level of bully as his brother in life outside the dohyo. Go do this in MMA where you'll get receipts in kind. In other sports, hockey for example, Takagenji would be a “marked man” after today’s display of brutishness. Like Enho or not, from the standpoint of putting punters in the stands, Enho is bank for the NSK because his sumo is unorthodox, which makes it interesting to watch, and lots of people like to root for the underdog.Takagenji? Not so much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seiyashi 4,097 Posted July 5, 2021 Just now, since_94 said: In other sports, hockey for example, Takagenji would be a “marked man” after today’s display of brutishness. What does being a "marked man" entail? I can see things like a rough elbow in a narrow hallway, but is it a bit more institutional than that or just a really rough time from the victim's teammates? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dada78641 884 Posted July 5, 2021 Takagenji-Enho was one of those weird violent bouts that make you wonder whether everything that happened was legal, and whether the rules are overly lax if so. Apparently it was, since the judges did not say anything, but some of those slaps looked pretty close to punches to me, and it wouldn't be surprising if Enho got knocked out cold because of it even if they were open hand. That said, they might not have been able to see it closely enough. Unfortunately the regular stream I watch no longer carries NHK (I'm guessing because the Olympics are coming up which makes the rights situation more complicated) so I don't know if they provided an update on his condition later on. I'm reminded of the infamous Kinjo-Maeta bout (Kinjo now named Chiyodaigo) where he just smacked him in the head repeatedly and knocked him out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morning 84 Posted July 5, 2021 Wow, Enho looked really out of it. It's very much a move in the right direction that the shimpan intervened. I haven't seen makuuchi yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morty 1,495 Posted July 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Kaikitsune Makoto said: Chiyonokuni is very interesting with his almost unmatched fury on dohyo. Too bad he has been so much injured. He never gives up and always puts his limbs in jeopardy with his tenacious Tawara dances and to the end-principle even in almost impossible situations. Ichiyamamoto looks weaker Tsurugisho-Ishiura was a good example how strong rikishi are. Ishiura is all muscle and weighs more than 99% of people and yet Tsurugisho is able to lift him upwards even without any effective grip. Tokushoryu has some subcutaneous fat deposits like hardened fat tissue of lipomas but he surely did his tottari beautifully. Of course it was the flow of the bout but such tottari always brings joy joy feelings to some (me at least). Good tottari is like perfect sneeze which clears nostrils perfectly without leaving any strechy slime hanging. Chiyoo has good shoulder muscularity and great character based on that post-bout interview where he said more content wise than some rikishi do during their whole career and was happy as Maradona when he scored against Greece. Ura can rely a lot on his knee(s) now as he doesn’t avoid much twists anymore compared to 6 months ago. Exemplary rikishi with such history of two operations and slowish recovery sensation wise. Good to see him in makuuchi. It may be quite probable that his career will end in another knee injury in some point but for now he brings in excitement and fighting spirit. Seemed to be quite close loss to Chiyoo. Tochinoshin hasn’t lost just knee stability but also some of his general power for some reason. Some bouts he loses clearly because of the knee problem but some he loses despite knee being in relatively safe position. Shimanoumi is thick overall. Not dumb, I think thick is sometimes used when calling someone dumb in English. In my native language, thick is just thick, not dumb. Well he is thick body wise. From neck to toes. He is really solid and also does this tight package sumo always moving as a block and trying to maintain his body close together. Bit like Daishomaru in many ways but more stoic. He has also bloomed at more mature age and kind of flew under the radar in his path to makuuchi. He even challenges well some really strong rikishi. Today he did his own sumo against Terutsuyoshi and used his dashinage at the end. Dashinage also suits him as that is often done from this very stable and tight stance. I like Shimanoumi. He is the embodiment of classic all around thick rikishi with simple but beautiful sumo. Tamawashi faded away at some point and became a rikishi anyone can beat in makuuchi. When he is able to his own sumo, he still possesses enormous power and he used to have strongest grip in sumo which is kind of strange considering his usual sumo style. Now Shoudai and Terunofuji have strongest grips. Chiyoshoma is sometimes manhandled in brutal ways but today some great mobiity, reacting to Aoiyama¨s moves, winning every small battles within the bout and finishing with burly uwatenage. One of the best bouts from him this year. Great stuff. I have a cramp in forearm extensor muscle due to deadlift so I refrain from further writing. Thank you for your attention, good will and please do understand that Hoshoryu is possibly the best rikishi in small fake moves before brilliantly timed throws. This is quality sumo commentary. I wish you would post on here more. Great stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryafuji 815 Posted July 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Seiyashi said: god knows what the mattas were from Shodai and Daieisho Looked to me like Shodai was called out for only putting one fist down... and then he did exactly the same thing again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
since_94 650 Posted July 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Seiyashi said: What does being a "marked man" entail? I can see things like a rough elbow in a narrow hallway, but is it a bit more institutional than that or just a really rough time from the victim's teammates? The latter. Retribution will come. Sooner than later. Next shift, most likely, or next time the teams meet. Offender will be thumped for taking liberties. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nagora 88 Posted July 5, 2021 2 hours ago, RabidJohn said: An ozeki visibly loses the use of the right side of his body mid-bout, then can't move from the position his aite gently lowered him into, and the discussion is all about that nasty Takagenji smacking poor little Enho about... Really? Takakeisho seems to have suffered from some sort of freak accident/incident that doesn't seem to be his opponent's fault. There's nothing much to say about it unless there's an announcement about his condition. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seiyashi 4,097 Posted July 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, nagora said: 2 hours ago, RabidJohn said: An ozeki visibly loses the use of the right side of his body mid-bout, then can't move from the position his aite gently lowered him into, and the discussion is all about that nasty Takagenji smacking poor little Enho about... Really? Takakeisho seems to have suffered from some sort of freak accident/incident that doesn't seem to be his opponent's fault. There's nothing much to say about it unless there's an announcement about his condition. In fact, contrary to any question of fault, the only thing that can be said about Takakeisho's bout is that he was lucky his opponent was alert. Ichinojo seemed to have realised something was not right and positively almost helped him down to the dohyo surface once the bout was over. If sumo had a sporting award, Ichinojo's certainly one of the front runners for this basho. 14 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nagora 88 Posted July 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Seiyashi said: In fact, contrary to any question of fault, the only thing that can be said about Takakeisho's bout is that he was lucky his opponent was alert. Ichinojo seemed to have realised something was not right and positively almost helped him down to the dohyo surface once the bout was over. If sumo had a sporting award, Ichinojo's certainly one of the front runners for this basho. Absolutely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,981 Posted July 5, 2021 In other words, Takakeisho was lucky his opponent couldn't happen to be Takagenji for multiple reasons. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryafuji 815 Posted July 5, 2021 Of course with his history of back problems Ichinojo knows all about stepping out carefully to avoid injury. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hakutorizakura 629 Posted July 5, 2021 Ichi looks nimble this basho (well, these first 2 days that is). That look on Taka is troubling, I was worried that I was witnessing the Kisenosato injury again. Hope it's nothing... Hakuho is clearly not showing Hakuho sumo. A bit disappointing, but well, at least we're watching him on the dohyo again! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bombur 50 Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) Damn, I was really hoping for Taka to take this one on a very good result so we could get a double yokozuna promotion . I think I'll root for Ichinojo, now. I already loved him, but he seems to be starting this basho in great form and I really liked his attitude in this bout. Edited July 5, 2021 by Bombur 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocks 1,809 Posted July 5, 2021 4 hours ago, RabidJohn said: An ozeki visibly loses the use of the right side of his body mid-bout, then can't move from the position his aite gently lowered him into, and the discussion is all about that nasty Takagenji smacking poor little Enho about... Really? Seriously? Are you kidding me with this "Takagenji is a bully" and he broke the rules crap? An Ozeki looks like he suffered a friggin' stroke on the dohyo and people are going crazy cause Enho got his bell rung by a slap? You realize on any given day Enho is giving away at least 50 KG in weight and 5 inches in height right? It's a miracle someone doesn't clean his clock every day. Most of these guys go easy on Enho and lay off crushing him but there is nothing in the rules, printed at least, that require them to. Takagenhi broke no rules here. And he isn't awful or a bully either, at least in the ring. Sumo is a combat sport, remember? I have no idea why a torinashi was called either. Enho's heel clearly touches out. The ringside judges hand goes up instantly on seeing it. Was this really ruled a fusen in the end? As for Takkeisho I'm hoping it is just he jammed his neck at the tachi-ai and pinched a nerve. The alternatives are worse. 2 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seiyashi 4,097 Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Rocks said: Seriously? Are you kidding me with this "Takagenji is a bully" and he broke the rules crap? An Ozeki looks like he suffered a friggin' stroke on the dohyo and people are going crazy cause Enho got his bell rung by a slap? You realize on any given day Enho is giving away at least 50 KG in weight and 5 inches in height right? It's a miracle someone doesn't clean his clock every day. Most of these guys go easy on Enho and lay off crushing him but there is nothing in the rules, printed at least, that require them to. Takagenhi broke no rules here. And he isn't awful or a bully either, at least in the ring. Sumo is a combat sport, remember? Oh no, I don't think anyone is seriously contending he broke the rules and he ought to be hauled over the coals for it. At least for me it's just, how dare he treat our poor precious little Enho like that . And to really be fair to Takagenji, no one would have batted an eyelid if he'd gone up great guns against Ichinojo or something and pulled out the same thing. IMO much of the outcry really is just because it's Enho. It's just sometimes even if the rules say you're clear, you're still going to get shade for it anyway - witness Hakuho and the shade he gets for his kachiage even if it's legal. As for the actual call, well, they went for a decision of dotai. You know how sometimes we think it ought to be a torinaoshi and it isn't? Somehow the opposite happened today and they called the torinaoshi. I sort of can see why they did even though on a replay I think you're right. That said, it sort of fortuitously gave the shimpan an excuse to show off their new procedures, when Takadagawa interrupted the torinaoshi when Enho couldn't really stand straight on the dohyo the second time. Either way, Enho wasn't going to win today, so apart from that battering he took and unless he goes kyujo as a result, it doesn't change anything in the long run. Edited July 5, 2021 by Seiyashi 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morning 84 Posted July 5, 2021 What discussion do you expect? One fight saw one rikishi stumbling about after being slapped silly, so we are discussing whether the attacking rikishi went overboard. The other saw one rikishi faltering with no apparent outward cause, what's more to say than: let's hope it is a pinched nerve and great reaction by Ichinojo who kept a hold and lent a supporting shoulder till Takakeisho was at least in a stable position. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mightyduck 67 Posted July 5, 2021 I suspect Enho may have a dislocated or broken jaw from the way he was touching it / pushing it back into place after the bout. Enho ducks low as a rule, making it hard for opponents to slap him. Most simply don't bother and to be honest, when you are that stooped, the main purposes of a slap, to turn the opponent's head off the centre line or to make them straighten up, simply aren't going to happen. I have only been watching sumo for a handful of years, but Takagenji's technique seemed unorthodox to put it mildly. Does the sumo association censure rikishi (either formally or informally) for poor technique resulting in injury? It does also appear that Takagenji's shoulder hits Enho just as they are about to leave the ring and this may have been where some damage was done. Fingers crossed Enho is ok and Takagenji acknowledges that he was not able to properly do his own brand of sumo in this match and undertakes to gambarize properly in future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
junsan 192 Posted July 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Morning said: What discussion do you expect? One fight saw one rikishi stumbling about after being slapped silly, so we are discussing whether the attacking rikishi went overboard. The other saw one rikishi faltering with no apparent outward cause, what's more to say than: let's hope it is a pinched nerve and great reaction by Ichinojo who kept a hold and lent a supporting shoulder till Takakeisho was at least in a stable position. Hear, hear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,161 Posted July 5, 2021 9 hours ago, Kaikitsune Makoto said: Chiyonokuni is very interesting with his almost unmatched fury on dohyo. Too bad he has been so much injured. He never gives up and always puts his limbs in jeopardy with his tenacious Tawara dances and to the end-principle even in almost impossible situations. Ichiyamamoto looks weaker etc A thread of its own please, otherwise it wii be lost among the Takagenji issues and that will be very not good. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,161 Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) I watched and watched Takagenji and expected to see some serious bullying after reading some comments. I’ve seen much much worse harites. Pretty intense, sure, but compare that to that bout I shot a few years ago, for instance.. A joke. And these: Edited July 5, 2021 by Kintamayama 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RabidJohn 1,793 Posted July 5, 2021 3 hours ago, nagora said: Takakeisho seems to have suffered from some sort of freak accident/incident that doesn't seem to be his opponent's fault. There's nothing much to say about it unless there's an announcement about his condition. Absolutely no blame to Ichinojo. On the contrary, he held on to prevent Takakeisho falling badly. I really don't care about the Takagenji-Enho bout. I saw nothing illegal in it, and the shimpan acted in accordance with their new guidelines, sending Enho off when he was plainly unfit to continue. I'm greatly concerned about Takakeisho's condition, though. I came straight here and found out it was a possible neck injury. Getting more info, limited as the info is, is why I came here. But since when did lack of info stop the members of this forum discussing an issue? 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,161 Posted July 5, 2021 And mine: this is brutal. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RabidJohn 1,793 Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) I remember seeing the current Takadagawa-oyakata in a similar condition after Hakkaku riji-cho gave him a good seeing to at the Royal Albert Hall in 1991. Edit: That's back when they were Akinoshima and Hokutoumi, for the benefit of anyone who might think I witnessed a brawl between two elders. Edited July 5, 2021 by RabidJohn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites