Araiso-heya branch out

[Kaninoyama 1,711]

I wonder how Araiso leaving Tagonoura will affect Takayasu. Training with Araiso has been integral to his own development and preparation. Without his favorite training partner on hand, it wouldn't be surprising to see Takayasu fall off form again. 

[cyclonicleo 19]

19 hours ago, rhyen said:

2 hours to the kokugikan by train, I hope the city hall is going to subsidise the train fares. 

Its an interesting train ride though, if its on the Tskuba Express line.

[cyclonicleo 19]

I'm just glad to see coming to pass for Araiso. 

[pricklypomegranate 730]

Size of Araiso-beya revealed

Source: Nikkan Sports (https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202105270000862.html).

Source: Spoinichi (https://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2021/05/28/kiji/20210528s00005000042000c.html).

More details have arisen about the new Araiso-beya. According to those involved, it will be established on a large plot of land about 300 tsubo (about 991sqm, or 10667 sqft), to accomodate a heya not bound by stereotypes, such as two sumo dohyos for more efficient training, a meeting room where the stablemaster and deshi can discuss things and a souvenir corner with original goods for tourists. It is expected to be finished in August.

[Akinomaki 40,023]

On 27/05/2021 at 11:27, Kintamayama said:

 He intends to establish a heya of the type that has never been seen before, with two keiko-bas, cameras at the keiko-ba, a meeting room, and  a souvenir shop selling heya  -related goods. At least, that is the plan.

relevant posts from Araiso activities

On 05/07/2020 at 18:36, Akinomaki said:

Araiso is trying to apply the triple mission model "wins, funds, popularization" for sports top businesses, devised by his teacher Hirata, to rikishi and sumo-beya etc.

On 11/10/2020 at 14:30, Akinomaki said:

Araiso for the start of this month was interviewed by the world's largest financial newspaper, Nikkei shimbun, as part of their series: 100 years of fortune formation - manage your assets in an age where life expectancy is 100 years, with the title:  Find the kimarite for your investment http://ps.nikkei.co.jp/shisankeisei/contents/09.html

...

Q: To have your own heya, capital is needed, isn't it?

A: If you have funds, you can provide an environment for keiko with an enhanced facility, this leads to wins. As proprietor of a heya, I want to build a good heya.

Q: Oyakata, you are now studying at graduate school, aren't you?

A: I'm studying at the sports scientific research department of Waseda university graduate school. From the advice of all the business proprietors who are with me in the course, I receive stimulating ideas, not bound to the customs of the sumo world, like "How about creating the heya in a combined facility". I want to build a heya like there never was before, so I'm thinking that first of all I study with utmost effort, and design the ideal of a heya.

...

Q: In what span are you thinking for the management of the heya?

A: Like the saying "keiko for 3 years ahead" symbolizes, rikishi don't get strong overnight. When rikishi grow stronger, capital accumulates. Raising deshi, I think that regarding all financial aspects, you have to think about it from a long term point of view. My goal is to raise middle school graduates to yokozuna, ozeki.

A: My feeling is that the sumo-beya from now on, needs to let rikishi tell in their own words what they are thinking. Getting them to the habit of having to think, aiming at training for the brain.

On 10/03/2021 at 16:29, Akinomaki said:

Araiso has finished the 1 year sports science research master's course, his master's thesis is about "A new way to run a sumo-beya".

"In a sumo-beya there only is 1 dohyo. During keiko, a long time is just watching. A yokozuna and children can't train on the same space."

"In the future, when I have a heya, I want to implement more efficient keiko, having 2 or 3 dohyo. Using video cameras and connect that to coaching. Having the camera at a 50cm different height, a totally different video results. I also studied which camera angle is more useful for coaching."

"In sumo, morning training is done on an empty stomach, that is done in no other sports. Chanko nabe is a supreme meal with well balanced nutrition, but before intense training, protein should be supplied, and then a meal afterwards. That is good for the muscles and avoids injuries."

"I would be good if a heya has it's own muscle training room."

"Due to Corona there were no dinner parties, less going out, I had much time for research."

"The costs of running a heya with multiple dohyo, training room and cameras are high. In a future heya, someone will have to search for enterprises that support these activities. Using the PC, knowledge of finances, it would be good if these things would be taught as well. Parents will entrust their kids to such a heya relieved."

http://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXZQOGH177I80X10C21A2000000/

[Seiyashi 4,072]

35 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

"The costs of running a heya with multiple dohyo, training room and cameras are high. In a future heya, someone will have to search for enterprises that support these activities. Using the PC, knowledge of finances, it would be good if these things would be taught as well. Parents will entrust their kids to such a heya relieved."

35 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

"In a sumo-beya there only is 1 dohyo. During keiko, a long time is just watching. A yokozuna and children can't train on the same space."

Combined with his intention of giving back to the community, I wonder whether this is his intent: some kind of combined sumo dojo for both pro rikishi, amateurs, and wanpaku sumo. So you still have the usual sumo training in the morning (modified with protein per Araiso's intent), but amateurs are welcome to join, and on weekends you run a sumo class for kids with the rikishi pitching in to teach. With multiple dojo, that's more conducive to multiple simultaneous teaching (cf the Sumo School), and not only do your rikishi get to give back to the community while they're still at it, both amateurs and pros gain a much wider range of training opponents than the old ichimon rengokeiko model would give you.

I don't feel like the NSK would be very happy to give its blessing to such a novel operation, though.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Seiyashi

[ryafuji 810]

26 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Combined with his intention of giving back to the community, I wonder whether this is his intent: some kind of combined sumo dojo for both pro rikishi, amateurs, and wanpaku sumo. So you still have the usual sumo training in the morning (modified with protein per Araiso's intent), but amateurs are welcome to join, and on weekends you run a sumo class for kids with the rikishi pitching in to teach. With multiple dojo, that's more conducive to multiple simultaneous teaching (cf the Sumo School), and not only do your rikishi get to give back to the community while they're still at it, both amateurs and pros gain a much wider range of training opponents than the old ichimon rengokeiko model would give you.

I don't feel like the NSK would be very happy to give its blessing to such a novel operation, though.

The old Kise beya was apparently open not only to amateurs but also practitioners of other martial arts such as kendo, so it's not entirely without precedent.

[Seiyashi 4,072]

8 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

The old Kise beya was apparently open not only to amateurs but also practitioners of other martial arts such as kendo, so it's not entirely without precedent.

That's good to hear. I wonder if Araiso will be allowed to offset operational costs with sumo classes, or whether that's too legally messy (does he employ his rikishi? Would that count under labour laws? What about insurance? etc) to be worth the trouble; and that's before getting into whether or not such "commercialisation" of sumo will be given the NSK's blessing.

13 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

I wonder how Araiso leaving Tagonoura will affect Takayasu. Training with Araiso has been integral to his own development and preparation. Without his favorite training partner on hand, it wouldn't be surprising to see Takayasu fall off form again. 

I think we will see in Aki. Maybe Takayasu needs a change in training to hit the next level after all his injuries, and doing it with Araiso isn't cutting it any longer. The good news is, Ami is just south of Tsuchiura (Takayasu's hometown), so Takayasu has more of an excuse to visit (or not) his hometown every once in a while.

Speaking of which, it's a bit premature but I wonder if Takayasu is going to stay in sumo as an oyakata after his retirement (maybe Tagonoura will get caught drinking to excess in public again). And if so, whether he'll go join Araiso instead.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Asashosakari 18,957]

19 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

That's good to hear. I wonder if Araiso will be allowed to offset operational costs with sumo classes, or whether that's too legally messy (does he employ his rikishi? Would that count under labour laws? What about insurance? etc) to be worth the trouble; and that's before getting into whether or not such "commercialisation" of sumo will be given the NSK's blessing.

I imagine it would be more along the lines of fostering enhanced community spirit by teaching sumo for free if so, and hoping it'll make the locals more likely to support the stable with donations. I seem to recall that that was basically the model at Kasugayama-beya before things went belly-up there (not sumo classes, but general strong efforts at community outreach). It's probably necessary when you're establishing a heya in a non-traditional location anyway, where the local residents aren't conditioned to help out yet.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

5 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

I imagine it would be more along the lines of fostering enhanced community spirit by teaching sumo for free if so, and hoping it'll make the locals more likely to support the stable with donations. I seem to recall that that was basically the model at Kasugayama-beya before things went belly-up there (not sumo classes, but general strong efforts at community outreach). It's probably necessary when you're establishing a heya in a non-traditional location anyway, where the local residents aren't conditioned to help out yet.

Seems like a good way to potentially convert some of the locals into recruits at some point down the line too. It’s not all that different from pro football teams supporting grassroots leagues in their catchment area, which doubles as something fun for kids and a scouting opportunity for the club. Everyone’s a winner.

[Kintamayama 44,635]

I would dare to say that none of the things said here regarding special dohyo for amateurs etc. will actually happen. The man himself said two dohyos will be more efficient for training. No hint on letting outsiders in or anything special. He talks a lot about efficiency and a new approach, but what I'm getting from it all is it stays internal. He's not going to rock any bouts, at least at the beginning. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Kintamayama

[rzombie1988 157]

16 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Nothing learned in five years, impressive. 

I guess I'll just quote my response from back then.

 

I could be intentionally rude back to you but I can do better.

Bigger wrestlers have longer reaches, can have more weight behind them without their performance declining and can generate more force with their increased weights. All of these things are advantageous to sumo. Does it absolutely mean anyone who is over 190 can walk right in and get to Juryo? No, but the list below shows some evidence to my theory of taller wrestlers generally having higher chances of success in sumo.

Since I can't figure out how to do a search for the tallest wrestlers ever on the sumodb to see how they did, I will have to go another route. http://xn--psso2y7wo.jp/rikishiPro/senreki/6431 - Here's a list of the tallest sumo wrestlers ever. I will only count the people with actual photos as sumo was different in the 1800's with some people just being gifted high spots and much data is missing on the older wrestlers.

Of the 60 wrestlers listed, 22 had a photo. All 22 made it to Makushita and 17(soon to be 18) of the 22 made it to Juryo:

Fudoiwa - Sekiwake
Kotooshu - Ozeki
Dewagatake - Sekiwake
Hokuseiho - Probably at the top of the 3rd division next basho and likely Juryo in September.
Kotowaka Chikao - Juryo
Futahaguro - Yokozuna
Baruto - Ozeki
Yoshiazuma - Makuuchi
Daihisho - Makuuchi
Oazuma - 3rd division
Takanonami - Ozeki
Kaishoryu - 3rd division, Ms6w was his highest rank
Ikioi - Sekiwake
Tochinowaka - Makuuchi
Okano - 3rd division
Gokenzan - Juryo
Hokutoo - 3rd division - Still active, but yes, probably not making it any further
Chiyonowaka - Juryo
Mitoizumi  - Sekiwake
Tachihikari - Makuuchi
Wakanoho - Makuuchi
Roho - Komosubi

I look forward to your reply.

Edited May 28, 2021 by rzombie1988

[Katooshu 3,176]

Size is generally an advantage, I think most would agree. That's quite different from saying that being 190cm or taller, with 'enough weight', means you should easily make juryo. There are all sorts of guys in that range who haven't done that.

Sumo also involves many skills, aptitude in things like timing, balance, speed, etc., dohyo smarts, and motivation. Basically, a lot other than size...which means that you can get 'little' guys in the top division, and big guys stuck in the lower divisions.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Katooshu

[rzombie1988 157]

20 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Size is generally advantage, I think most would agree. That's quite different from saying that being 190cm or taller, with 'enough weight', means you should easily make juryo. There are all sorts of guys in that range who haven't done that.

I don't believe that post was in good faith. That person and I have been having issues dating back to 2014 when Kakuryu became Yokozuna. Some people just don't get along for various reasons. We haven't interacted in a long time and I'd prefer to keep it that way unless my hand is forced.

I think it was obvious that I don't think anyone over 190cm can just walk in and get to Juryo, but taller wrestlers have a better chance of doing so. If I were recruiting for sumo, I would pretty much only search for taller recruits due to their physical advantages. That's why every other combat sport has weight divisions.

Edited May 28, 2021 by rzombie1988

[Seiyashi 4,072]

Right, going , that's better off in the juryo promotion thread if anything. Araiso's heya isn't even built and his deshi haven't gotten past a year in sumo.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Seiyashi 4,072]

2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I would dare to say that none of the things said here regarding special dohyo for amateurs etc. will actually happen. The man himself said two dohyos will be more efficient for training. No hint on letting outsiders in or anything special. He talks a lot about efficiency and a new approach, but what I'm getting from it all is it stays internal. He's not going to rock any bouts, at least at the beginning. 

Do you think at least the wanpaku sumo is happening (pandemic permitting)? It would seem really odd to site a heya in the relative boondocks (assuming cash wasn't an issue) if you didn't intend to meaningfully engage the community in some way.

[Kintamayama 44,635]

2 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Do you think at least the wanpaku sumo is happening (pandemic permitting)? It would seem really odd to site a heya in the relative boondocks (assuming cash wasn't an issue) if you didn't intend to meaningfully engage the community in some way.

I don't know, but I think that at least for the first few years, they will be focusing on themselves. That isn't to say that once in a while they won't have a get-together with the local folk or kids, but not something on a permanent basis.  We shall see. Tatsunami were out in the same boondocks too till recently. Did they engage locally and to what extent? I have no idea.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Kintamayama

[Kaninoyama 1,711]

7 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I would dare to say that none of the things said here regarding special dohyo for amateurs etc. will actually happen. The man himself said two dohyos will be more efficient for training. No hint on letting outsiders in or anything special. He talks a lot about efficiency and a new approach, but what I'm getting from it all is it stays internal. He's not going to rock any bouts, at least at the beginning. 

Agree with this. Without seeing the Japanese, in the previous article referenced he spoke of raising middle school graduates to Ozeki and Yokozuna. Those are the children he was referring to. While still young and small and no match size or skill-wise with the bigger, older, more experienced rikishi, they will have their own space to train continuously without needing to give way to their sempai, as is the standard practice in a one-dohyo heya. 

[rhyen 1,822]

The burning question: we have yet to be introduced to the okami-San. 

[Seiyashi 4,072]

41 minutes ago, rhyen said:

The burning question: we have yet to be introduced to the okami-San. 

I have the impression (maybe from Azumazeki's closure) that a heya manager can substitute for an okami-san if one is not present. It could be an additional reason why he has chosen to site his heya so near his hometown; a relative or close friend could be doing him a favour by being heya manager.

[Yamanashi 3,771]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

I have the impression (maybe from Azumazeki's closure) that a heya manager can substitute for an okami-san if one is not present. It could be an additional reason why he has chosen to site his heya so near his hometown; a relative or close friend could be doing him a favour by being heya manager.

Kisenosato may have several ex-tsukebito available for this.  Kotooshu has had two managers, both ex-Makushita level rikishi from Sadogatake.  Does anyone know if other heya do this?  Of course, Osh has an okami-san, but he doesn't have other ex-sekitori coaches, either.  I'm interested to know if Araiso Oyakata picks up any coaches from among the recently retired kabu holders.

[Seiyashi 4,072]

46 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Kisenosato may have several ex-tsukebito available for this.  Kotooshu has had two managers, both ex-Makushita level rikishi from Sadogatake.  Does anyone know if other heya do this?  Of course, Osh has an okami-san, but he doesn't have other ex-sekitori coaches, either.  I'm interested to know if Araiso Oyakata picks up any coaches from among the recently retired kabu holders.

Or maybe that's the reason Adachi is joining him. Fella has almost 20 years as a rikishi already, so maybe he'll step into the heya manager role if he retires within the next year or so as the heya grows, whereas now things are still relatively simple with just them 5 in the heya.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Kaninoyama 1,711]

12 hours ago, rhyen said:

The burning question: we have yet to be introduced to the okami-San. 

Araiso must rank among Japan's most eligible bachelors, so it's somewhat curious that he has remained single for this long, especially in a culture where someone in his position is pressured to marry. Maybe he just wants to fully enjoy single life as long as possible. 

[Godango 972]

43 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Araiso must rank among Japan's most eligible bachelors, so it's somewhat curious that he has remained single for this long, especially in a culture where someone in his position is pressured to marry. Maybe he just wants to fully enjoy single life as long as possible. 

Araiso has explicitly stated that he wants to bring a modern approach to running a heya, it wouldn't surprise me at all if as part of that he wants to buck convention here. A wife when he's ready to marry someone he loves, a heya manager to manage a heya. Makes sense.

[RabidJohn 1,716]

5 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Araiso must rank among Japan's most eligible bachelors, so it's somewhat curious that he has remained single for this long, especially in a culture where someone in his position is pressured to marry. Maybe he just wants to fully enjoy single life as long as possible. 

It strikes me that a lot of people are making assumptions here...

Maybe Araiso-oyakata simply isn't into ladies, and part of his convention-bucking is a refusal to enter into a sham marriage arrangement merely for the sake of appearances.