Grand Slams in Ozumo

[Kuhne 57]

The skill level required is the same of course but the mental task is greater and the physical requirements to have your body at top shape for longer means it’s simply more difficult.

 

 

[Gooner 39]

First of all: great topic! Thanks!

As mentioned above Hatsu is the thoughest tournament to win for career grand slam holders. 

It's also striking that Kyushu has only been won 9 times in total by the 'non career grand slam holders with atleast four yusho'. For comparison Haru has been won 21 times by the same group, Natsu 20, Aki 20, Nagoya 17 and Hatsu 16 times. 

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Gooner

[Tameiki 185]

On 21/07/2021 at 09:37, Kuhne said:

The reason why a calendar year slam (in any sport where it can happen) is considered a special achievement compared to winning all tournaments in different years is simple.

the calendar year slam is harder to achieve. That’s all.

You need to be on your game in the first tournament of the year and keep the level throughout. If you mess up you won’t be able to try again until next year, as opposed to career  slams where you can start over next tournament. 
 

got the flu on January? There goes the calendar year slam, better luck next year.

tennis has the golden slam which means you also won the Olympic gold medal that year, which is obviously harder for obvious reasons, only one player has achieved that. 
 

but novak is on track this year…

In tennis, the main reason for the Grand Slam to follow the calendar year is that until 1985, the Australian Open was taking place at the end of the year and many athletes would not travel to Australia that was too far away (especially if they were not on track for the Grand Slam or even the Career Slam). Things started to change in the early 80s and the AO was moved to January in 1987 (hence no AO in 1986).

I also think that what gives more value, in many people's eyes, to a calendar year Grand Slam is that you don't get to choose the right moment for you. It is like winning the Olympics. Great champions may have won races and set records throughout their careers but many will be happy to win only one race if it is at the Olympics.

[hakutorizakura 629]

Excellent thread! Here we can see seasonal trends with the yusho count and the yokozunas. If one has more time, one can do similar exercise with win-loss stats of every rikishi to check their seasonal performance. Just saying 

[nagora 88]

The thing about tennis and golf grandslams is that the different venues have a very significant effect. That's not the same for Sumo and I'm not sure the concept travels very well because of it. Consecutive wins is the big number for Sumo, IMO.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

3 hours ago, nagora said:

The thing about tennis and golf grandslams is that the different venues have a very significant effect. That's not the same for Sumo and I'm not sure the concept travels very well because of it. Consecutive wins is the big number for Sumo, IMO.

Sumo venues may not vary as much as the courts of tennis, it's true, but it's often said that the Nagoya basho is uncomfortably hot and this affects the rikishi's performance. Whether that's the venue itself or just the time of year is hard to say, but it seems safe to state that competing there is a different beast to Tokyo in January. You could also argue that the 'away' basho are different in that rikishi sleep in unfamiliar beds instead of walking up the street from their heya every day. I'd wager most rikishi are more comfortable competing in the familiar surroundings of the Kokugikan, other than those few who enjoy home-crowd support when in Osaka (e.g. Goeido), Fukuoka (e.g. Kotoshogiku) or Nagoya.

[Seiyashi 4,097]

19 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

You could also argue that the 'away' basho are different in that rikishi sleep in unfamiliar beds instead of walking up the street from their heya every day. I'd wager most rikishi are more comfortable competing in the familiar surroundings of the Kokugikan, other than those few who enjoy home-crowd support when in Osaka (e.g. Goeido), Fukuoka (e.g. Kotoshogiku) or Nagoya.

That's not an isolable effect against golf or tennis, to be fair. It could equally be said that tennis players or golfers sleep in unfamiliar hotels and beds, deal with different styles of food, and are presumably more comfortable in courses or courts similar to those they are used to playing in and have home crowd support at.

What is isolable, however, is the effect of upping sticks and temporarily moving every other basho, which I would think is surely more pronounced on lower division rikishi. They have to contend with the brunt of the moving of the heya itself. Surely the sekitori privileges extend to not needing to go with the heya to the lodgings at exactly the same time, or doing the bulk of the grunt work and setup.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Eikokurai 3,437]

I’ll update the tables when I can, but for the time being just a comment to note that Terunofuji has now completed his ‘venue grand slam’. His yusho this November was his first in Fukuoka, so he has at least one yusho in each of the four host cities.

If he wins again in January he will become the 11th man to get the ‘career grand slam’, having won all other basho from Haru to Kyushu. If he manages it, it will be joint second fastest in terms of how many overall yusho it took him to complete the set. Both Kitanofuji and Hakuho also took got the set of six in seven yusho. Terunofuji has so far only doubled up yusho in the May tournament.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Eikokurai

[Seiyashi 4,097]

9 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

I’ll update the tables when I can, but for the time being just a comment to note that Terunofuji has now completed his ‘venue grand slam’. His yusho this November was his first in Fukuoka, so he has at least one yusho in each of the four host cities.

If he wins again in January he will become the 11th man to get the ‘career grand slam’, having won all other basho from Haru to Kyushu. If he manages it, it will be joint second fastest in terms of how many overall yusho it took him to complete the set. Both Kitanofuji and Hakuho also took got the set of six in seven yusho. Terunofuji has so far only doubled up yusho in the May tournament.

I like how prior to his ozeki return we were all thinking he's going to be severely damaged and good for a couple more yusho, yet he's already on 6 yusho by now. And beyond just the career grand slam, he even looks like an odds-on favourite to both complete a calendar slam in 2022 and tie Musashimaru for third-most accomplished foreign yokozuna as well. Power aside, no one in makuuchi can quite match him for consistency over 15 honbasho days; it's very difficult to see anyone really playing spoiler to a whole series of 13-2s.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

I like how prior to his ozeki return we were all thinking he's going to be severely damaged and good for a couple more yusho, yet he's already on 6 yusho by now. And beyond just the career grand slam, he even looks like an odds-on favourite to both complete a calendar slam in 2022 and tie Musashimaru for third-most accomplished foreign yokozuna as well. Power aside, no one in makuuchi can quite match him for consistency over 15 honbasho days; it's very difficult to see anyone really playing spoiler to a whole series of 13-2s.

He has the potential to win all six but it’s unlikely just from the perspective of mathematical possibility. It only takes one dropped basho, and if he wins all six that will actually break the record for most consecutive yusho, having won the final two in 2021. Asashoryu and Hakuho both managed seven in a row. I can see Teru dropping at least one next year, just out of exhaustion or injury.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Updates:

• Hakuho to 45 yusho total, 8 for Nagoya; asterisk removed to show he's no longer active
• Terunofuji to 6 yusho total and moved up, bold to indicate completion of 'venue grand slam'

[Reonito 1,469]

16 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Asashoryu and Hakuho both managed seven in a row.

Yeah there's a reason no one has managed 8, including two very dominant yokozuna at their peaks.

[Seiyashi 4,097]

On 03/12/2021 at 08:33, Eikokurai said:

Terunofuji to 6 yusho total and moved up, bold to indicate completion of 'venue grand slam

Mild nitpick, but this came to me after NHK's commentary today: can Terunofuji truly be considered to have completed the venue grand slam? His sole July basho win was in 2020, when it was held in Tōkyō; NHK points out that he has yet to win in Nagoya itself.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

36 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Mild nitpick, but this came to me after NHK's commentary today: can Terunofuji truly be considered to have completed the venue grand slam? His sole July basho win was in 2020, when it was held in Tōkyō; NHK points out that he has yet to win in Nagoya itself.

Damn. Good fact checking. I’ll have to asterisk that one when I get a chance.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

I'll have to update my infographic now. Terunofuji's win in Hatsu means he has now joined the small group of Career Grand Slam achievers. He has won at least one yusho in all six honbasho now.

(Although, it will still need the asterisk for VENUE given the remarks above about the July 2020 win not being in Nagoya. I'm still giving him the CGS though as he still won that honbasho. The location is a detail.)

Edited February 8, 2024 by Eikokurai

[Koorifuu 1,003]

On 22/06/2021 at 17:49, RabidJohn said:

I don't see how winning six bashos on the trot during one calendar year is in any way superior to winning six on the trot with other start and finish points. 

A year is an absolute: the time it takes for the earth to make one orbit around the sun. A calendar year is an arbitrary imposition. The Gregorian calendar may be in the ascendancy at the moment, but it has no more meaning than any other that's existed in different cultures around the world.

Hakuho won six yusho on the trot twice to Asashoryu's once - end of.

I'm almost three years late but hey!

That's because, in tennis, the Gregorian calendar & yearly season concepts are closely intertwined.

Each season has their official start around early January, the Finals (fka Master Cup) & Davis Cup / BJK Cup finals happen in late November, and then everyone goes on holidays for a month before the next season starts. There's a sense of closure.

A reverse comparison would Arsenal's invincibles. They're legendary mostly because they were undefeated throughout a single season, which was split between late 2003 and early 2004. Had they gone undefeated for 38 matches across the entirely of i.e. 2003 instead, that'd have been split through two different seasons and arguably wouldn't be as much of a timeless topic, Gregorian calendar or not.

Edited February 9, 2024 by Koorifuu

[Katooshu 3,247]

On 22/07/2021 at 16:25, Tameiki said:

I also think that what gives more value, in many people's eyes, to a calendar year Grand Slam is that you don't get to choose the right moment for you. It is like winning the Olympics. Great champions may have won races and set records throughout their careers but many will be happy to win only one race if it is at the Olympics.

You don't get to choose the right moment for you with any other starting point either. There are 6 basho in whatever the given period is, that period starts, and you must then win them all to achieve a sweep. March-Jan is every bit as set as Jan-Nov is, and your room for error in terms of winning each basho is the same: 0. 

Athletically I don't think winning 6 straight yusho Jan-Nov is more impressive than 6 straight March-Jan, although we like to organize things into this year vs that year, so it fits more neatly. It is an interesting topic.

Edited February 9, 2024 by Katooshu

[RabidJohn 1,793]

6 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

I'm almost three years late but hey!

That's because, in tennis, the Gregorian calendar & yearly season concepts are closely intertwined.

Each season has their official start around early January, the Finals (fka Master Cup) & Davis Cup / BJK Cup finals happen in late November, and then everyone goes on holidays for a month before the next season starts. There's a sense of closure.

A reverse comparison would Arsenal's invincibles. They're legendary mostly because they were undefeated throughout a single season, which was split between late 2003 and early 2004. Had they gone undefeated for 38 matches across the entirely of i.e. 2003 instead, that'd have been split through two different seasons and arguably wouldn't be as much of a timeless topic, Gregorian calendar or not.

Football and tennis have seasons, though: ozumo does not. It's an all-year-round continuum.

Six yusho on the trot is six on the trot, regardless of start and finish points.

You can believe six on the trot starting in January is somehow more special: I don't.

[Jakusotsu 5,981]

18 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Football and tennis have seasons, though: ozumo does not. It's an all-year-round continuum. 

Not entirely.

[dingo 1,265]

Also, Hatsu basho in japanese means literally first basho. It's clearly intended to mean first basho of the year, linked directly to the start of the calendar year. Some other basho names also follow seasons (Natsu, Aki). 

[Asashosakari 19,403]

48 minutes ago, dingo said:

Also, Hatsu basho in japanese means literally first basho. It's clearly intended to mean first basho of the year, linked directly to the start of the calendar year.

I'm not sure if "intended" is the right word here, considering the official name is literally just "January/first month tournament" 一月場所. "Hatsu" is just its common name, and like the aforementioned year-end awards, it's clear that any implication of an annual season is mostly promoted by outside actors like the press, not the Kyokai itself.

Also, to turn this around: Surely if the November tournament was meant to be the end of a tournament season, we'd be seeing some actual focus on that aspect while the honbasho is happening? Outside of the most wins in a year stat which is getting some (very) minor attention, I've never noticed anything like that.

Edited February 9, 2024 by Asashosakari

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,274]

3 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

Football and tennis have seasons, though: ozumo does not. It's an all-year-round continuum.

Six yusho on the trot is six on the trot, regardless of start and finish points. 

If you truly believe this then show up to the Nagoya basho with a winter coat on

Edited February 9, 2024 by Tsuchinoninjin

[RabidJohn 1,793]

Ozumo may have outside conventions like the Gregorian calendar imposed upon it, but it has no off season with a predictable, longer-than usual break between any two basho. 
Yeah, I'm aware that there's a jungyo-free intermission, but the NSK does not call the following basho "the first of the new season", does it?

[Suwihuto 125]

A minor addendum to all the nitpicking above, but nobody's pointed out that consecutive wins across basho can be much easier if you're fighting rank-and-filers at the end of one tournament and similar in the next until your record forces you into the more competitive end of things.

[dingo 1,265]

20 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

I'm not sure if "intended" is the right word here, considering the official name is literally just "January/first month tournament" 一月場所. "Hatsu" is just its common name, and like the aforementioned year-end awards, it's clear that any implication of an annual season is mostly promoted by outside actors like the press, not the Kyokai itself.

Also, to turn this around: Surely if the November tournament was meant to be the end of a tournament season, we'd be seeing some actual focus on that aspect while the honbasho is happening? Outside of the most wins in a year stat which is getting some (very) minor attention, I've never noticed anything like that.

But even then they name the basho and arrange them from first to last in a calendar year. 

https://www.sumo.or.jp/Admission/schedule/

That might be just out of convenience for the public and adhering to calendar conventions, but still shows that the calendar year is the basis for the basho schedule. Even the rikishi themselves always talk about goals for the new year etc.