What happens in case the leader drops out, but still has most wins after 15 days?

[Benihana 1,937]

Let's say Sekitori A leads with 13 wins after 13 days, but is 100% unable to fight the last two days, NO way of taping it up. Torikumi for day 14 is already made. There is no way to force any of the contenders to 13-2 via playoff. The chances of any of the other guys reaching 13 on their own, are pretty dim.

What is the hypothetical outcome of the situation? What does the rulebook say?  Asking for a friend.

[Seiyashi 4,108]

I presume you're aware of the two historical precedents - Wajima and Chiyonofuji, who won yusho even while kyujo.

It's not immediately clear from your post though - Sekitori A is definitely taking the fusen loss on day 14 for 13-1-1, but is no one else capable of getting to 13-2, or are there hiramaku/sanyaku who are at 11-2 but not expected to get to 13-2?

@Asashosakari has said he wouldn't be surprised if the rule on awarding yusho to the higher-ranked rikishi still exists somewhere in case it is needed, although I think they would just call a fusen in the playoff between the 13-2s and award it to the rikishi actually capable of fighting.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Benihana 1,937]

14 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

I presume you're aware of the two historical precedents - Wajima and Chiyonofuji, who won yusho even while kyujo.

It's not immediately clear from your post though - Sekitori A is definitely taking the fusen loss on day 14 for 13-1-1, but is no one else capable of getting to 13-2, or are there hiramaku/sanyaku who are at 11-2 but not expected to get to 13-2?

@Asashosakari has said he wouldn't be surprised if the rule on awarding yusho to the higher-ranked rikishi still exists somewhere in case it is needed.

Your first line settles the question, almost. I wasn't aware of the precedents. I love how there is always something new in sumo to learn, even after so many years of following it.

Ok, a kyujo doesn't mean Sekitori A is out. And if someone else get's the same score, Sekitori B will be the winner, because A is unfit for a playoff, i guess.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Benihana

[Seiyashi 4,108]

15 minutes ago, Benihana said:

Your first line settles the question, almost. I wasn't aware of the precedents. I love how there is always something new in sumo to learn, even after so many years of following it.

Ok, a kyujo doesn't mean Sekitori A is out. And if someone else get's the same score, Sekitori B will be the winner, because A is unfit for a playoff, i guess.

You may be interested to know that we were sort of toy-debating the idea of both Hakuho and Terunofuji praying for the other to withdraw, just so that they could withdraw one day later and still yusho. Somewhere around day 13 as well, I should think. Was that what sparked off this post?

[Churaumi 745]

So, in the incredibly vanishing small chance that the hiramaku rikishi is 12-2 going into senshuraku, and wins his match, he would be ahead to hang out and mount the dohyo for the playoff fusensho.

But...what if he is broken in the process of winning and can't mount the dohyo? I suppose the higher ranked rikishi would claim the yusho, and his oyakata would lift the trophies?

[Benihana 1,937]

Just now, Seiyashi said:

You may be interested to know that we were sort of toy-debating the idea of both Hakuho and Terunofuji praying for the other to withdraw, just so that they could withdraw one day later and still yusho. Somewhere around day 13 as well, I should think. Was that what sparked off this post?

Nope, didn't notice the discussion, but thanks for pointing it out.

[Stelios 30]

What happens if the leader dies? If he is forced to go intai?

[Ripe 73]

You mean in case like this:

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi_basho.aspx?r=4074&b=197311

As you can see, it still results in a tournament win.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Ripe

[Churaumi 745]

I guess a lot of this can be boiled down to whether a yusho winner must be present to win the yusho?

[ViscountessNivlac 30]

4 hours ago, Churaumi said:

So, in the incredibly vanishing small chance that the hiramaku rikishi is 12-2 going into senshuraku, and wins his match, he would be ahead to hang out and mount the dohyo for the playoff fusensho.

But...what if he is broken in the process of winning and can't mount the dohyo? I suppose the higher ranked rikishi would claim the yusho, and his oyakata would lift the trophies?

I imagine somebody would drag him up to the dohyo at that point. He’s already ahead of the other contender by being in the venue.

[dada78641 884]

3 hours ago, Stelios said:

What happens if the leader dies? If he is forced to go intai?

No, his corpse is dragged onto the dohyo and then repeatedly berated by the gyoji for not putting his hands down behind the line while the head shinpan glares menacingly.

[Seiyashi 4,108]

40 minutes ago, ViscountessNivlac said:

I imagine somebody would drag him up to the dohyo at that point. He’s already ahead of the other contender by being in the venue.

Not if he's concussed.... At least not in this day and age. One year ago they might well have done precisely what you suggested.

[Yamanashi 3,903]

The situation with Tamanishiki in 1938 comes to my mind; he died of appendicitis right after the basho.  He wasn't the winner (and I'm going to cut him some slack here), but it makes the "winner dies before senshuraku" scenario more plausible.

[ryafuji 815]

3 hours ago, Churaumi said:

I guess a lot of this can be boiled down to whether a yusho winner must be present to win the yusho?

Well Chiyonofuji was present in the sense that he picked up the Emperor's Cup (with one arm) but even if he hadn't he would still have got the yusho. All you have to do is win more bouts than anyone else. 

[Eikokurai 3,437]

5 hours ago, Stelios said:

What happens if the leader dies?

The yusho interview gets cut.

[Sue 520]

9 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

The yusho interview gets cut.

...or is done with a Ouija board.

[ViscountessNivlac 30]

13 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Not if he's concussed.... At least not in this day and age. One year ago they might well have done precisely what you suggested.

Maybe at that point they waive the normal rules and allow them to accept the win from the wheelchair on the way out.

Edited July 23, 2021 by ViscountessNivlac

[Swami 245]

16 hours ago, ryafuji said:

Well Chiyonofuji was present in the sense that he picked up the Emperor's Cup (with one arm) but even if he hadn't he would still have got the yusho. All you have to do is win more bouts than anyone else. 

The same too with Wajima I believe, he was released from hospital in order to collect the cup.

 

Swami