Aki Basho 2021 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers!)

[code_number3 708]

12 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Chiyonokuni is in the lucky M17 spot, for what it's worth. 

Oh well, another makujiri yusho?

[Eikokurai 3,437]

5 minutes ago, code_number3 said:

Oh well, another makujiri yusho?

Terunofuji could hardly complain. :)

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

Idiotic loss by Aoiyama today, having pushed Shimanoumi almost over the bales already, and then getting the brilliant idea to start pulling.

[Kurowashi 43]

1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

Idiotic loss by Aoiyama today, having pushed Shimanoumi almost over the bales already, and then getting the brilliant idea to start pulling.

I don‘t get it why he doesn‘t understand, that every time he pulls he loses..

[Yamanashi 3,904]

Glad I got to see the replay with Terunofuji grabbing Daieisho's sagari.  Watching the first-run camera angle, I thought he had Daieisho in a nipple-yotsu.

[Rocks 1,809]

12 minutes ago, Kurowashi said:

I don‘t get it why he doesn‘t understand, that every time he pulls he loses..

He actually gets some wins pulling guys down. But he gets it when they are hard chargers that keep charging, like Onosho.  if he stuck with that he'd be fine. But inexplicably he tries it when he has them pushed backwards and pulls them back into balance. Dumb. You see this a lot, even from veterans, and I've never understood it. Pulling works when your opponent is moving in the direction you are pulling, if it works at all.  This isn't rocket science. 

[Hakuhonofan 334]

2 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Daieisho has just blown this basho wide open. 

It's all Wakanohana's fault.

[Yamanashi 3,904]

44 minutes ago, Rocks said:

He actually gets some wins pulling guys down. But he gets it when they are hard chargers that keep charging, like Onosho.  if he stuck with that he'd be fine. But inexplicably he tries it when he has them pushed backwards and pulls them back into balance. Dumb. You see this a lot, even from veterans, and I've never understood it. Pulling works when your opponent is moving in the direction you are pulling, if it works at all.  This isn't rocket science. 

In fact, he does well when he's slapping down; he (and so many others) have trouble when he pulls back.  The difference between hatakikomi and hikiotoshi.  If your opponent is not off-balance already when you pull, bringing him toward you is not always smart.

[Katooshu 3,334]

A rikishi being pushed will often exert force forward in order to resist being moved back, thus creating an opportunity to use that against them and pull them down. There is logic to the push-pull combo, but you have to have a good dohyo IQ to use it at the right times and also to know when to give up on a pull attempt.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Katooshu

[pricklypomegranate 730]

Daieisho looking like his yusho self again. That was really a fantastic performance. When Terunofuji locked him up, I thought he was done for - but he managed to turn the situation into an advantage. Teru's arms got locked up, and Daieisho established enough distance to push him just over the edge. Well done! First kinboshi!!! 

Hoshoryu looking fantastic today with that super rare ipponzeoi. Hope he gets KK! 

Edited September 20, 2021 by pricklypomegranate

[Eikokurai 3,437]

55 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Well done! First kinboshi!!! 

Daieisho has won three kinboshi. Today‘s loss was Terunofuji’s first kinboshi given up.

[hakutorizakura 643]

Oh yeah Hosh!! Uncle must be proud of that.

And what a surprise from Daieisho! No purple rain though 

[Kaminariyuki 500]

20 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

If you are referring to the Nagatanien set, then it's an eggplant: supposedly an auspicious omen in the first dream of the year. 

Wow, I think we need a photo of that!

[Kaminariyuki 500]

9 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Battle of the resurrected busted knees.

Kinboshi to the sakura mawashi?

[Kaminariyuki 500]

5 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I'd put more money on an Okinoumi or Endo yusho, in all seriousness. Or, given the wackiness of the past year and that it's Wacki Aki, even Chiyonokuni!

Ura in a three way playoff.

[Yamanashi 3,904]

47 minutes ago, Kaminariyuki said:

Ura in a three way playoff.

I'm fascinated by the basho dynamics that cause "Basho Discussion" and "Ridiculous Predictions" to merge by the time we get to Nakabe.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

9 hours ago, Taliesin said:

Really didn't expect Terunofuji to give up his first kinboshi today.

There is always special attention given new Yokozunas to see how many wins they can string together at the starts of their Grand Champion careers (my version of NHK's debut final record).  On paper, Terunofuji had a chance to cobble a zensho yusho 15-0 record.  But with this loss, his win streak ends up being a worthy yet lacklustre 8-0.  

Hakuho managed a 9-0 record when he first became a Yokozuna.  Interestingly, Kisenosato actually did better, with 12 straight wins before his first loss as a Yokozuna.  The king in this category was Takanosato who won 18 straight times before his first loss as a Yokozuna.

Needless to say, best record in Yokozuna debuts is one of the few records that Hakuho does not hold!  I guess Terunofuji won't be setting that record either...

[Amamaniac 2,079]

Both Hoshoryu and Kiribayama seem to be coming into their own this tournament (technically, they have been doing that for a while now).  Both are very talented and promising young sumo wrestlers imho, but they have very different dispositions.  These two future stars will meet tomorrow (day 10) and that could be one of the highlight matches of the tournament.  Hoshoryu has more on the line and more determination, but I'm not ruling out easygoing Kiribayama!

[Kaminariyuki 500]

3 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

I'm fascinated by the basho dynamics that cause "Basho Discussion" and "Ridiculous Predictions" to merge by the time we get to Nakabe.

Is that what you said when I predicted Ura's kinboshi over Harumafuji?  

Actually, I think Tokushoryu permanently merged the two threads at hatsu 2020.

[Kashunowaka 300]

46 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

There is always special attention given new Yokozunas to see how many wins they can string together at the starts of their Grand Champion careers (my version of NHK's debut final record).  On paper, Terunofuji had a chance to cobble a zensho yusho 15-0 record.  But with this loss, his win streak ends up being a worthy yet lacklustre 8-0.  

I think it's too harsh to call an 8-0 start "lacklustre", unless he goes on to finish 11-4 or worse. Having a shaky first basho as yokozuna is the norm, yokozunae who started with a great basho are actually quite rare.

[Kaminariyuki 500]

35 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Both Hoshoryu and Kiribayama seem to be coming into their own this tournament (technically, they have been doing that for a while now).  Both are very talented and promising young sumo wrestlers imho, but they have very different dispositions.  These two future stars will meet tomorrow (day 10) and that could be one of the highlight matches of the tournament.  Hoshoryu has more on the line and more determination, but I'm not ruling out easygoing Kiribayama!

Should be epic. I'd put Wakatakakage in there, as well.

[Kamitsuumi 402]

10 hours ago, ryafuji said:

If you look you will see there were no designated East Ozeki for that tournament. For some reason Nayoroiwa is listed as a haridashi, or overhang on the banzuke, so Akinoumi needed to be a YO so there was an Ozeki on the East side. 

This was during the second east-west era where all rikishi from Dewanoumi and related heya are put on one side of the banzuke.

[Thorbjarn 215]

Interesting day, especially that Ipponzei. Terunofuji loosing was not my guess. Didn't expect him to go 15-0, but expected him to loose later on against the Sanyaku opponents. 

[Kaminariyuki 500]

37 minutes ago, Thorbjarn said:

Terunofuji loosing was not my guess. Didn't expect him to go 15-0, but expected him to loose later on against the Sanyaku opponents. 

Well, Daieisho has been sanyaku half of the last ten basho, of course. And, I'd be surprised if there is anyone in the joi-jin who he has not defeated. I think he's got his eye on getting back up there himself.

[Katooshu 3,334]

The guys who go all out moving forward give Teru problems. Onosho is another troublemaker for him.