Hattorizakura (Shounanzakura)-intai

[sumojoann 1,268]

9 hours ago, ryafuji said:

Was wondering the same thing. I think Osunaarashi should count as well. 

Yes, I agree, Osunaarashi should be counted.  The more I think about it, I've come to the conclusion that Brodi Henderson himself didn't post on SF, but I have strong memories that his father did.  He was trying to find out how to get his son (Brodi) into a heya.  But unfortunately, I haven't been able to find anything in SF archives to back this up.  Edit:  I guess we're getting a little off-topic.

Edited August 28, 2021 by sumojoann

[Benevolance 2,511]

We've got 14 days to bring the topic back around to sumo. I'm sure we'll get there. And yes, Brodi's dad had posted on here. I think that's how he initially got in touch with John, who helped make introductions. 

[Yamanashi 3,903]

There's no sense trying to replace him, because you probably won't see the miraculous mix of pathetic ability and clueless determination in our lifetimes.

I'm looking at possibilities among the newer faces.  One that has promise is Shiraishizakura.  If I were playing the horses, I'd note his breeding (from the legendary Shikihide stable) and his track record (7 basho, all MK).   I'd also note that after a pair of 3-4 scores, he slid to 1-6 in his last outing -- so, he's learning how to lose consistently.  Lastly, the question the shrewd evaluator asks is "Can he lose to the losers?"  And his last basho gives a resounding "yes!"

So, I'm keeping an eye on this kid.

[Benevolance 2,511]

Oh! If Hakuho retires next tournament, that is PROOF that Hakuho used forbidden Mongolian magics to create a sumo simulacrum that protected Hakuho from suffering losses. With his final horcrux gone following Shonanzakura's intai, the dai yokozuna is now vulnerable to defeat. 

[Thorbjarn 215]

To me, Hattorizakura / Shounanzakura was a somewhat entertaining Sumo-oddity. There was a short spell where he looked to be not entirely hopeless, but that changed quickly. He gave it a real shot, though, for whatever reason. 

I really hope he lives a long, happy and successful life and that memories of his sumo career will keep him feeling fulfilled at the end. 

[Katooshu 3,332]

Different kimarite and a higi in each of his 3 wins, quite the versatile technician (and non-technician) 

I had a mild interest in him near the start of his career, especially after he scored his first win and it seemed like maybe he could parlay that into more success (he didn't). It could also be amusing to see how the strongest opponents he faced, usually guys coming back from injury, would approach facing someone so hugely overmatched.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Katooshu

[Mightyduck 67]

I do wonder if Shikihide had folded after all that weird stuff last year if he might have fared better in the transferring Heya. 

[Yamanashi 3,903]

On 28/08/2021 at 22:19, Yamanashi said:

There's no sense trying to replace him, because you probably won't see the miraculous mix of pathetic ability and clueless determination in our lifetimes.

I'm looking at possibilities among the newer faces.  One that has promise is Shiraishizakura.  If I were playing the horses, I'd note his breeding (from the legendary Shikihide stable) and his track record (7 basho, all MK).   I'd also note that after a pair of 3-4 scores, he slid to 1-6 in his last outing -- so, he's learning how to lose consistently.  Lastly, the question the shrewd evaluator asks is "Can he lose to the losers?"  And his last basho gives a resounding "yes!"

So, I'm keeping an eye on this kid.

Ha, he's changed his shikona to Agazumazakura.  Will it change his luck?

Edited August 30, 2021 by Yamanashi
chage -> change (edited before I get a lot of Red Hat trolls)

[Jabbamaru 167]

Bummer...Orora, Giku, Yoshikaze, Hatori...ALL the cool dudes are gone

Farewell Shotasan best luck

[Benevolance 2,511]

We'll always have Shohozan. 

[Seiyashi 4,108]

1 hour ago, Benevolance said:

We'll always have Shohozan. 

He's not going to be around much longer methinks. Nishonoseki oyakata turns 65 on Jan 12 next year, so Kyushu may be Shohozan's last full basho. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Sue 520]

1 hour ago, Benevolance said:

We'll always have Shohozan. 

Well, Hozan is Naya now, so does that mean that Shohozan has to be Shonaya?

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

Nishonoseki oyakata turns 65 on Jan 12 next year, so Kyushu may be Shohozan's last full basho. 

I'm not sure how the two halves of the sentence hang together. Is Shohozan going to inherit the stable (he does not have a kabu)? Or is it that he might decide to retire rather than continue under a new boss?

[Seiyashi 4,108]

5 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

I'm not sure how the two halves of the sentence hang together. Is Shohozan going to inherit the stable (he does not have a kabu)? Or is it that he might decide to retire rather than continue under a new boss?

I'm assuming that Shohozan, being the most successful rikishi of the new incarnation of Nishonoseki, is staying around after the fall to juryo to take over as the next Nishonoseki-oyakata from the current holder, ex-Wakashimazu. Of course, the second scenario you mentioned is equally plausible - if Shohozan doesn't want to stay on as oyakata, and Nishonoseki is going to dissolve or be under new management (the current Matsugane or Hanaregoma are attached, but they're both previously of Kataonami stable), he might consider it a natural time to retire as well.

But either way, five months till the end for this current Nishonoseki stable. What will be done with it is anyone's guess.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Seiyashi

[yohcun 401]

8 hours ago, Jabbamaru said:

Orora

Now only Hanakaze is left of that trio of record holders that made the bottom divisions a little more colorful.

[fwuzzle23 66]

1 minute ago, Seiyashi said:

I'm assuming that Shohozan, being the most successful rikishi of the new incarnation of Nishonoseki, is staying around after the fall to juryo to take over as the next Nishonoseki-oyakata from the current holder, ex-Wakashimazu. Of course, the second scenario you mentioned is equally plausible - if Shohozan doesn't want to stay on as oyakata, and Nishonoseki is going to dissolve or be under new management, he might consider it a natural time to retire as well.

But either way, five months till the end for this current Nishonoseki stable. What will be done with it is anyone's guess.

There's two attached oyakata, ex-Tamarikido and ex-Tamanoshima, who won't be retiring for another 20 years or so (there's also ex-Daitetsu but he retires in a couple months), so I don't think it's particularly necessary that anyone cut their career short to take over for ex-Wakashimazu. The second scenario is plausible enough, but by this point I've learned not to assume when someone will retire because it's almost always wrong.

[Seiyashi 4,108]

10 minutes ago, fwuzzle23 said:

There's two attached oyakata, ex-Tamarikido and ex-Tamanoshima, who won't be retiring for another 20 years or so (there's also ex-Daitetsu but he retires in a couple months), so I don't think it's particularly necessary that anyone cut their career short to take over for ex-Wakashimazu. The second scenario is plausible enough, but by this point I've learned not to assume when someone will retire because it's almost always wrong.

That would have been true if Shohozan were 10 years younger, but given he's near to matching or setting age records (if not actually setting the record outright, although Aminishiki might have set a high bar) if he makes it back into makuuchi I would hardly say he's cutting his career short. I mean, the dude is 37 years old - I know Aminishiki pushed the envelope on sticking around, but surely 40 as the new retirement age is a bit much no?

And of the last 6 basho, 3 have been 5-10 MKs, 1 6-9 MK, and 2 bare minimum 8-7 KKs, so he's got not too much left in the tank too. It's true he might decide to keep wrestling for the hell of it, but it shouldn't be surprising to anyone to see him choose to retire at a natural inflection point in a heya's continuity whether or not he takes over (as opposed to ex-Tokitsuumi who was the last IIRC to have a career really "cut short" to take over a heya).

In any case, we should hear something about it shortly after Aki, since most heya closures or changes in key personnel tend to start rumbling a basho or two before they actually need to happen.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Seiyashi

[themistyseas 242]

6 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

I'm not sure how the two halves of the sentence hang together. Is Shohozan going to inherit the stable (he does not have a kabu)? Or is it that he might decide to retire rather than continue under a new boss?

 

2 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

it shouldn't be surprising to anyone to see him choose to retire at a natural inflection point in a heya's continuity whether or not he takes over 

One piece not to miss here is that it would appear overwhelmingly likely that the reason he doesn't currently have a myoseki is that his stablemaster's may be promised to him - whether or not the intention is for him to take over as shisho (ie. stable becomes renamed after one of the other oyakata - which seems unlikely - or there ends up being a swap that sees one of the other oyakata become Nishonoseki, and Shohozan takes over their kabu).

But anyway yes, I will personally miss Hattorizakura, the only rikishi I've ever actually wanted to take on in the dohyo!

[Seiyashi 4,108]

6 minutes ago, themistyseas said:

One piece not to miss here is that it would appear overwhelmingly likely that the reason he doesn't currently have a myoseki is that his stablemaster's may be promised to him - whether or not the intention is for him to take over as shisho (ie. stable becomes renamed after one of the other oyakata - which seems unlikely - or there ends up being a swap that sees one of the other oyakata become Nishonoseki, and Shohozan takes over their kabu).

I agree it's not likely to see the stable renamed something else considering the whole reason ex-Wakashimazu switched from Matsugane to Nishonoseki in the first place, although if one of the other oyakata were to take over as Nishonoseki-oyakata we should hear of it soon. Whether we hear of Shohozan's retirement plans at the same time ought to determine whether or not he succeeds as Nishonoseki-oyakata, another myoseki, or leaves sumo entirely.

On a related topic, if Shohozan does succeed as Nishonoseki-oyakata, that deprives ex-Wakashimazu of the option to stay on as sanyo (assuming no other myoseki become free), which would make Matsugane and Hanaregoma the, well, steadying hands during this transition. I'm sure it has happened before, but have there been situations where the incoming fresh oyakata is much more junior to existing oyakata at the stable and they assist him in his first days as oyakata?

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

7 hours ago, themistyseas said:

there ends up being a swap that sees one of the other oyakata become Nishonoseki, and Shohozan takes over their kabu

That's my hunch. Everyone's a winner.

[Asashosakari 19,651]

17 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

On a related topic, if Shohozan does succeed as Nishonoseki-oyakata, that deprives ex-Wakashimazu of the option to stay on as sanyo (assuming no other myoseki become free),

Or Wakashimazu just stays as sanyo until whenever Shohozan actually needs the kabu. I don't see any particularly compelling reason that both have to retire in January if it's not forced by Shohozan having lost his sekitori status by then.
 

17 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I'm sure it has happened before, but have there been situations where the incoming fresh oyakata is much more junior to existing oyakata at the stable and they assist him in his first days as oyakata?

Sadogatake-beya had a trio of oyakata of comparable relative age (between 5 and 8 years older than the new shisho) when Kotonowaka took over straight after retiring, plus others.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Asashosakari

[Asojima 2,874]

How long will we go before someone mentions the subject of this topic?

[yohcun 401]

Even in his own retirement thread, the guy is easily overpowered.

[Naganoyama 5,947]

29 minutes ago, Asojima said:

How long will we go before someone mentions the subject of this topic?

103 posts?

[Sue 520]

Shonanzakura had a weird mix of not appearing to try in his actual bouts, but sticking around for a long time anyway. I could never quite figure out what his actual attitude toward Ozumo was. I wonder if he might not have been better served if he'd been encouraged to be a yobidashi rather than a rikishi. I hope he finds success in wherever he goes next.