Kyushu 2021 discussion

[Taliesin 68]

5 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Slim Shady ... Tochinoshin is back tomorrow!  He will be attempting to get his kachikoshi (to avoid further demotion), which means a minimum of 8 wins in 11 bouts (i.e., 72.7% win performance). Normally a KK only requires a 53.3% win performance.  Recently demoted Ozeki have to produce a 66.6% win performance (minimum 10 wins in 15 bouts) to get reinstated.  And as most fans here know, that's something which Tochinoshin pulled off in May 2019.  

8 wins here, however, is a bigger ask. 

Will our man from Georgia pull it off?  If he does, that should generate some added enthusiasm in this tournament!

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At least, he won't have to deal with Asanoyama and questionable monoii decisions!!!

 

I think he doesn't aim for KK, but rather for whatever score will be enough to not send him to juryo immediately.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

2 minutes ago, Taliesin said:

I think he doesn't aim for KK, but rather for whatever score will be enough to not send him to juryo immediately.

You are quite right about that.  He is at M13w, with 8 slots below him in the Top Division.  Any guesses on the bare minimum number of wins he needs to stay in Makuuchi?  Of course, much will depend on how the Juryo joi boys fare.  Last tournament, Tsurugisho was at more or less the same rank (technically one slot lower) and he ended up down in Juryo with a 5-10 record.  Five should be enough to save Tochinoshin, but he should aim for at least 6 to be safe.  

Nevertheless, I say "aim big".  If you can manage 6, then why not 8?  Hope his back is up for it!

[Joaoiyama 307]

I guess Hoshoryu will never get a monoii.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

37 minutes ago, Joaoiyama said:

I guess Hoshoryu will never get a monoii.

Not sure the bout v. Endo really warranted one.  From the angle Abema TV provided, it was pretty clear that Hoshoryu's right knee dropped on the ring first.  

A monoii would not have hurt though.  Earlier in the day, they seemed to be trying to kill time ... (but then again, Takayasu did that for them in spades!).

Bouts that end with a shitatenage vs uwatenage showdown are pretty awesome, and this was no exception (insert enthusiasm here).

But as a fellow fan of Hoshoryu, I'd agree that he can't seem to catch a break (last tournament was no exception).

[RabidJohn 1,725]

Hoshoryu is very talented, but his youth and inexperience are showing now he's having to fight the same rikishi repeatedly. He needs to figure out how to deal with guys who've figured him out. He's got a lot of time to get good.

[Tigerboy1966 1,417]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

He is at M13w, with 8 slots below him in the Top Division.

Don't forget that there are already two open slots from above him, created by Hakuho and Asanoyama which means that things should be easier for the relegation candidates, I think.

[Joaoiyama 307]

Only after seeing the replay we all saw Endo won, but they didn't even feel the need for a replay. Same against Tamawashi and some other bouts in past basho's. I'm no conspiracy freak but "they" seem picky when it comes to monoii calls with the nephew.

[Joaoiyama 307]

In this classic bout a monoii was called, a torinaoshi then ensued with the reason for the call being the kabaite rule, which is when a rikishi is shinitai and the upper man is going down on top of him, so he puts his hand down to break the fall. See for yourselves if that was the case here.

 

 

 

 

[Joaoiyama 307]

Last november, son and nephew delivered a bout as close as the one above, almost as if they were trying to recreate it but no monoii was called. 

 

[fwuzzle23 66]

43 minutes ago, Joaoiyama said:

Only after seeing the replay we all saw Endo won, but they didn't even feel the need for a replay. Same against Tamawashi and some other bouts in past basho's. I'm no conspiracy freak but "they" seem picky when it comes to monoii calls with the nephew.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I was pretty sure Endo won while watching in real-time, before I saw any replay. Not every somewhat-close result needs a monoii, if that was the standard then the top division would take another hour.

[Seregost 130]

For me it was clear today that Hoshoryu touched first, but anyway he's not having any luck lately with the shimpan decissions. I'm sure he'll overcome that soon, he's always fun to watch: full of energy, nice kimarite and badass face.

Glad that Akua won today, I like him, but sometimes he's just clueless. Hope to see at least one kakenage from him this basho. 

Sadly Ura lost, but Tobizaru won, so I'm fine with that.

And Takayasu really likes this stamina contests. I'm thinking for a while now that he just has no self confidence, and prefers to extend the bout to drain his opponent out than taking some risky position. Too many times he has been taken down in the last moment, specially in his "Choke Basho" in Osaka this year. I think it's a pity, because he has the technique and  the strenght to blown up most of his opponents in a second.

Not one of my favourites, but nice to see Takakeisho spanking people left and right. One of those would be enough to take me back to Spain in the blink of an eye.

[Yamanashi 3,779]

3 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

You are quite right about that.  He is at M13w, with 8 slots below him in the Top Division.  Any guesses on the bare minimum number of wins he needs to stay in Makuuchi?  Of course, much will depend on how the Juryo joi boys fare.  Last tournament, Tsurugisho was at more or less the same rank (technically one slot lower) and he ended up down in Juryo with a 5-10 record.  Five should be enough to save Tochinoshin, but he should aim for at least 6 to be safe.  

Nevertheless, I say "aim big".  If you can manage 6, then why not 8?  Hope his back is up for it!

From the db, starting at M13w, # of wins in basho:

7-8 OK (no one demoted this century)

6-9 8/12 survived in Makuuchi this century

5-10 1/9 survived.

So, he needs 6 wins minimum; and given it's Tochinoshin, he needs 7 wins minimum (those that follow Tochinoshin know what I mean).

[Benevolance 2,484]

And 10 wins starts his tsuna run. 

[Amamaniac 2,078]

17 minutes ago, Benevolance said:

And 10 wins starts his tsuna run. 

Nice try.   If only tsunas could be obtained that easily... 

[Katooshu 3,182]

 

4 hours ago, Joaoiyama said:

Only after seeing the replay we all saw Endo won, but they didn't even feel the need for a replay. Same against Tamawashi and some other bouts in past basho's. I'm no conspiracy freak but "they" seem picky when it comes to monoii calls with the nephew.

No, it was pretty clear in real-time too. Except for those maybe wearing Hosh glasses  .. Although even then I haven't seen any complaints about it after a quick browse through Kinta and Natto's videos.

The call and lack of monoii vs Tamawashi was questionable, but not this one. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Katooshu

[Katooshu 3,182]

7 hours ago, rokudenashi said:

A comment regarding the performances of Takatōriki's sons today. In Makushita, Mudōhō at the very least deserved a mono-ii in his match, and it looked pretty clear to me that the side of Kotoshōhō's foot was out before Ōhō planted his own down - yet the shinpan reversed the call.

I wonder if we will see this pattern of unfavourable decisions against them continue as Takatōriki shows no signs of letting up in his anti-NSK crusade.

Agree on Mudoho - I thought it was clear that his opponent touched down first. 

The shinpan's reversal favoured Oho - Kotoshoho was originally called the winner and that was overturned by the shinpan. Oho is now 4-0.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Katooshu

[Kamitsuumi 389]

2 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

From the db, starting at M13w, # of wins in basho:

7-8 OK (no one demoted this century)

6-9 8/12 survived in Makuuchi this century

5-10 1/9 survived.

So, he needs 6 wins minimum; and given it's Tochinoshin, he needs 7 wins minimum (those that follow Tochinoshin know what I mean).

6-9 would be completely safe. You need to take into account the increased makuuchi size, and that there are only 3 Y+O with Hakuho retiring.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Kamitsuumi

[Kaito 277]

8 minutes ago, Kamitsuumi said:

6-9 would be completely safe. You need to take into account the increased makuuchi size, and that there are only 3 Y+O with Hakuho retiring.

Agree, and with the way things are shaping up so far, I'd be pretty surprised if 5 wins doesn't save him also. It looks like there's gonna be more supply than demand for makuuchi slots next time.

[Tigerboy1966 1,417]

Only 12 hours late but...

Just spotted on the makushita match-ups for tomorrow. Ryuden vs Akiseyama. Hurrah!

[Yamanashi 3,779]

38 minutes ago, Kamitsuumi said:

6-9 would be completely safe. You need to take into account the increased makuuchi size, and that there are only 3 Y+O with Hakuho retiring.

Fair enough!  I use the maxim "Always assume the worst.  If it happens, you appear strangely prophetic; if it doesn't, you're happily surprised."  I'd very much like to see Tochinoshin around for one more late-career liftout into middle Maegashira.

[Yamanashi 3,779]

1 minute ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Only 12 hours late but...

Just spotted on the makushita match-ups for tomorrow. Ryuden vs Akiseyama. Hurrah!

The Tortoise and the Hare ... from the Old Folk's Home.

[rokudenashi 298]

2 hours ago, Katooshu said:

Agree on Mudoho - I thought it was clear that his opponent touched down first. 

The shinpan's reversal favoured Oho - Kotoshoho was originally called the winner and that was overturned by the shinpan. Oho is now 4-0.

Whoops! Thanks for the correction...

[Gurowake 4,021]

2 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Only 12 hours late but...

Just spotted on the makushita match-ups for tomorrow. Ryuden vs Akiseyama. Hurrah!

I had completely forgotten about Akiseyama to the point where I had mentally assumed he had retired, when he just took a couple basho off.  Ryuden should still be a favorite, but these guys were both in Makuuchi not too many basho ago.

[Philioyamfugi 378]

This is being a very entertaining Basho. So good to see Takakeisho blasting Diasho off the ground with thrusts and the devastating left is back. He can challenge Terinofuji for the title. Enho and Ura doing their brand of sumo. Takayasu, Aioyama, and even Shodia looking solid. Chiyoshoma midgit tossing Kotoecho into the Goyji on day 1 set a good vibe. Nice to see sumo on the road again. Watch out for Hokotofuji,  and seeing Akiseyama win on day 1 made me happy !

[Joaoiyama 307]

I still hope Chiyonokuni lights his fire, i love his spirit and will always cheer for him.