Kyushu 2021 discussion

[Seregost 130]

52 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

It is subjective, which is what makes it interesting?

 

I think Sadanoumi has more maku'uchi wins than any of the other candidates.

If we are looking at how good they were at there absolute best, I would have to go for Yutakayama. Nagoya, 2018, Day 15. Awesome victory over the yusho winner Mitakeumi. One of those matches that sticks in your memory so strongly that you don't even have to look it up (although I did look it up, just to check that my memory wasn't playing tricks)

I remember that bout and was glorious. Fantastic win for Yutakayama there. But somehow, he hasn't been able to turn him on like that again.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

2 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

So who is the best currently active rikishi never to make sanyaku? Chiyonokuni is definitely a contender, but Tokushoryu won a yusho. I like Chiyoshoma and Kagayaki but I'm in a minority. Hoshoryu? Tomokaze? Tobizaru? Yutakayama? Kotonowaka? What do y'all think?

I can’t include anyone like Hoshoryu in a “never made it” discussion as he’s still so fresh off the boat. He’s in the “hasn’t made it yet” category. For me, “never” comes with implications of age and longevity. Chiyonokuni has been around in the sekitori ranks (not counting his injury-forced demotions) for exactly ten years next basho, and his career high rank is M1. That’s about as strong a case as you can make to meet the terms of your question, I think.

[Katooshu 3,137]

4 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

So who is the best currently active rikishi never to make sanyaku? Chiyonokuni is definitely a contender, but Tokushoryu won a yusho. I like Chiyoshoma and Kagayaki but I'm in a minority. Hoshoryu? Tomokaze? Tobizaru? Yutakayama? Kotonowaka? What do y'all think?

I consider Kagayaki to be an overachiever. He's sloppy, has poor balance, isn't fast, and can be easily overpowered at times.... yet with his basic straight ahead pushing is on 32 consecutive basho in makuuchi and has never been demoted from the sekitori ranks. That, and making it up to M3, have surpassed my expectations. Although he's had 6 MK in a row and is 2-3 this basho, so it's about time he won if he wants to keep his top division streak going.

For me Ura is an interesting one for this question, because he doesn't really fit into the makuuchi veteran or the up and comer category. At his best I rate him higher than most who've been around a while but haven't made sanyaku. He has a fairly comfortable winning record in makuuchi (counting the matches he's actually competed it) and quickly made the joi-jin in his first top division run. I think when he's healthy he's at least high maegashira quality.

I'd be surprised if Hoshoryu and Kotonowaka never made sanyaku.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Katooshu

[yohcun 393]

Kagayaki, to my eye, looks like he's trying to diversify lately. He's been grabbing the mawashi more often, and visited inter-stable practice for the first time ever. He's probably clued in that he's hit a ceiling for the last few years.

I don't expect dividends of it to come for a while though. I'm pretty sure he's been doing the same straight-ahead push sumo since his childhood.

Edited November 19, 2021 by yohcun

[Katooshu 3,137]

Natto down 

[Kishinoyama 582]

2 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Natto down 

Yes and his account has been terminated. NSK is really helping with the spread of sumo to the world. Yes that is sarcasm.

[jsolo 106]

November Kyushu Basho Links and Statistics Blog--DAY 5 POST

Results, Day 6 Preview and Schedule, Standings, match articles, photos, videos, Kimarite statistics, Time of match statistics, Top Rank performance, Maegashira v san'yaku statistics, Juryo substitutes. Nice JSA video of matches of Terunofuji, Ura, Wakatakakage, and Abi matches. Enjoy.

DAY 5 KYUSHU BLOG POST

[Eikokurai 3,433]

2 hours ago, Katooshu said:

Natto down 

 

2 hours ago, Kishinoyama said:

Yes and his account has been terminated. NSK is really helping with the spread of sumo to the world. Yes that is sarcasm.

Kintamayama keeps reporting him to ensure he has a monopoly on the lucrative market of YT sumo highlights videos.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Seems Natto is back up with another channel …

[Tigerboy1966 1,385]

5 hours ago, yohcun said:

I'm pretty sure he's been doing the same straight-ahead push sumo since his childhood. 

That's why it's appropriate that he named himself after a train: he runs on tracks.

He's very good at what he does but he has a couple of obvious shortcomings: he isn't comfortable on the belt (although he's improving) and he's vulnerable to an opponent lateral movement.

[Rocks 1,807]

Man, the sumo is terrible tonight so far.

[Katooshu 3,137]

42 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

That's why it's appropriate that he named himself after a train: he runs on tracks.

He's very good at what he does but he has a couple of obvious shortcomings: he isn't comfortable on the belt (although he's improving) and he's vulnerable to an opponent lateral movement.

With 6 straight MK he needs to improve a bit faster!

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Getting way ahead of things here, but how do people feel about Takakeisho’s chances of launching a tsuna-run this basho even without the yusho? I reckon a 13-2 or more jun-yusho could be enough, especially if he beats Terunofuji as part of it (who then wins 14-1). He’s looking in good form so far.

[Hakuryuho 334]

5 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Getting way ahead of things here, but how do people feel about Takakeisho’s chances of launching a tsuna-run this basho even without the yusho? I reckon a 13-2 or more jun-yusho could be enough, especially if he beats Terunofuji as part of it (who then wins 14-1). He’s looking in good form so far.

Don't see it. If he goes 14-1 JY then maybe

[Rocks 1,807]

6 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Getting way ahead of things here, but how do people feel about Takakeisho’s chances of launching a tsuna-run this basho even without the yusho? I reckon a 13-2 or more jun-yusho could be enough, especially if he beats Terunofuji as part of it (who then wins 14-1). He’s looking in good form so far.

Considering the fact that the last person to Zensho besides Hakuho is Goeido and 13 wins has been enough to win 8 of the last 9 basho I would think any 13 wins would be considered a Yusho equivalent. 

[Amamaniac 2,078]

11 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Getting way ahead of things here, but how do people feel about Takakeisho’s chances of launching a tsuna-run this basho even without the yusho? I reckon a 13-2 or more jun-yusho could be enough, especially if he beats Terunofuji as part of it (who then wins 14-1). He’s looking in good form so far.

Have to agree with you.  Takakeisho looks as good as he's ever looked.  He has dispatched all of his opponents so far handily and with confidence.  Meanwhile, in his bouts, Yokozuna Terunofuji has been overly cautious and vulnerable on several occasions.  The way things are going, Takakeisho may just fight his way to another championship, upsetting the (relatively) new Yokozuna along the way.  I wouldn't put a zensho yusho past Takakeisho at this point.  Junyusho or Yusho, either way, you can argue that he will be starting a tsuna run...

Edited November 19, 2021 by Amamaniac

[Eikokurai 3,433]

14 minutes ago, Hakuryuho said:

Don't see it. If he goes 14-1 JY then maybe

Even with his existing two Y/JY combos in his back pocket? That has to count for something.

[Hakuryuho 334]

5 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Even with his existing two Y/JY combos in his back pocket? That has to count for something.

That's definitely true but I think what will hinder greatly is his streakiness, even if he strings together two rather promotion-worthy bashos the YDC/Kyokai could still deny him the ascension to Yokozuna by calling it a fluke and wanting to see regular results of that magnitude. But maybe I'm just too pessimistic in that regard.. at least I hope so!

 

[Amamaniac 2,078]

2 hours ago, Rocks said:

Man, the sumo is terrible tonight so far.

Good to see you back again, Rocks.  

I'm assuming you made this comment after only the first half of the Top Division.  I'd say things heated up after the break.  Trust you'd agree.

Right off the bat, Ura handed Takayasu another disappointing loss (for him that is).  I love when the former goes for the ashitori leg grab!  Takayasu left himself open for that, but still it was exciting to see.

The very next match between Hoshoryu and Chiyoshoma was perhaps my favourite bout of the day.  It was such a technical battle, the kind that we'd see out of Harumafuji and Hakuho.  I might be generalising here, but Mongolian wrestlers really know how to work their countermoves!

I'd say we were treated to some pretty good "sumo" even after those two bouts.

Really looking forward to see what's in store for the weekend!

 

 

[RabidJohn 1,667]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

Meanwhile, in his bouts, Yokozuna Terunofuji has been overly cautious and vulnerable on several occasions.  

I like the yokozuna's caution! It's a continuation of what he did in September and seems to be a change in mindset now he's got the rope: a standard to maintain rather than a promotion to earn. Crudely put, trying not to lose instead of going all out to win. 

For me, it's resulted in some of the most entertaining sumo of the basho, partly because his new reactive style does make him look vulnerable at times. The apparent jeopardy just adds to the show.

And at 6-0 as reigning champion, it seems to be working very well for him.

---

An oddly satisfying kind of symmetry/pattern completion for me with Ura's ashitori win over Takayasu. The last time they met resulted in the knee injury that sent Ura plummeting down the banzuke: this time Ura effectively stopped Takayasu from using his leg for a while...

Yeah, that was a classic looking battle between Hoshoryu and Chiyoshoma. I wish Chiyoshoma would stick to that kind of sumo because he's actually pretty good at it. That was his first loss to Hoshoryu...

[Kurowashi 42]

man tochi looks a lot thicker, seems like he‘s only drinking and eating lately 

[rokudenashi 291]

Thoughts on the makushita race so far.

15e Tsurubayashi (2-1) couldn't keep his run of knocking off prospects going this basho, as today he gets slapped down by 13e Rōga, who is now 3-0. Tsurubayashi can be a really tricky customer sometimes, belying his frame.

8w Ōtsuji (0-3) is getting handled in the jōi so far, which I'm not surprised about, but nevertheless it's good experience for him. I am confident he has a bright future ahead. 熟と期待している。

16e Mineyaiba (3-0) is looking like a contender too, shame he is just outside the jōi. Tomorrow he meets Rōga, both with undefeated records on the line. I'm particularly excited for that bout.

3e Kitanowaka, also 3-0 and in a promotion berth, gets 8e Tamashōhō (3-0) tomorrow. They are 2-2, but the Mongolian has beaten him in their last two bouts.

2w Shiba got a valuable feather in his cap by beating j13w Hiradoumi today. At 3-1, things are looking good for him to finally reach sekitorihood, hoping he can keep it up.

Not to forget former makuuchi, 47w Ryūden and 37e Tomokaze, both also undefeated. The former being the favourite to win the division in my book, but it would be very interesting to see them match up soon. Tomorrow, Tomokaze meets Takatōriki's second-oldest, 43e Naya (fka Hōzan, 3-0).

Edited November 19, 2021 by rokudenashi

[Amamaniac 2,078]

I've heard through the grapevine that Hakuho will appear as a guest commentator on NHK's coverage this weekend.  This is nothing unusual, in terms of recently retired wrestlers being invited to share their views on the ongoing action in the ring.  

But in Hakuho's case, this will be an important opportunity to shore up popular support and prove that he is an asset to the NSK.  Given the way he is responding to fans in the stadium (check Abema TV's coverage), it would appear that he is on a popularity campaign of sorts.

 

[rokudenashi 291]

Has anyone else noticed Asakayama-oyakata's complexion this tournament? He looks to have aged 10 years since Aki, and lost weight. I hope it's just me and he is doing fine.

[Ripe 70]

6 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Getting way ahead of things here, but how do people feel about Takakeisho’s chances of launching a tsuna-run this basho even without the yusho? I reckon a 13-2 or more jun-yusho could be enough, especially if he beats Terunofuji as part of it (who then wins 14-1). He’s looking in good form so far.

Almost nonexistent. Even if he goes 14-1 with only loss being to Terunofuji. He need a Yusho or at the minimun a Doten to be under consideration for promotion. Single regular Jun-Yusho will not count. Or at least it won't lead to a public announcement of him needing to do X in following basho...

Kisenosato was a unique case but even for him promotion did not came after a single Jun-Yusho followed by Yusho. It came as a result of a full year of double digit results with multiple Jun-Yusho's capped with a Yusho (13-2 J, 13-2 J, 12-3 J, 10-5, 12-3 J, 14-1 Y). Takakeisho's last six basho results do not come even close to that. Terunofuji was another unique case... his promotion came following 14-1 J, but also won the two previous basho. But in both of those cases, we had someone who proved he could be consistant in having great results. Something that Takakeisho failed to do so far.

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Ripe