Kyushu 2021 discussion

[Seiyashi 4,072]

Speaking of shiners, Mitakeumi seems to be sporting a nice one over his right eye too.

[Akinomaki 40,071]

4 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Speaking of shiners, Mitakeumi seems to be sporting a nice one over his right eye too.

He said it's OK after the NHK announcer asked about it in the kachi-koshi interview

[Taliesin 68]

Poor yobidashi... Takakeisho proved to be too much for him.

[Akinomaki 40,071]

After Sadanoumi now also Takakeisho was in pain after the fall from the dohyo. Not only the eyes, every part of the body of the rikishi get bruised during the basho

[Seiyashi 4,072]

Just now, Akinomaki said:

He said it's OK after the NHK announcer asked about it in the kachi-koshi interview

Would you really expect him to say otherwise?

Really nice kotenage-lite by Takakeisho. He is not as defenceless as he appears if the grip on the belt is not complete. The crucial thing is not the belt grip, which gives him a number of clearing options like the kotenage or sukuinage which he has previously used. It's closing to him and giving him no space to thrust at all.

[Djihi 33]

Ouch, that was a hard landing.

[Akinomaki 40,071]

Just now, Seiyashi said:

Would you really expect him to say otherwise?

Often he'd talk about how it happened and give a bit more details, saying just OK (daijoubu) is often a sign that it really bothers him and that he doesn't want to talk about it.

[Seregost 130]

Why Takayasu is fighting Terunofuji in the  belt lately is beyond my imagination. I think he has more chances being mobile and aggressive with oshi zumo.

[lackmaker 434]

It's really choose which way you're gonna lose.

[RabidJohn 1,724]

13 minutes ago, Seregost said:

Why Takayasu is fighting Terunofuji in the  belt lately is beyond my imagination. I think he has more chances being mobile and aggressive with oshi zumo.

Takayasu's 'style' seems to have devolved into always trying to get that left hand grip. He got it quickly today, and it did him no good whatsoever. I'd say he needs to forget all that practice with Kisenosato/Araiso, and get back to the capable all-rounder he used to be.

Gaburi-yori-ing a big bloke like Takayasu over the bales must place a deal of strain on those joints, but Terunofuji fights like there's nothing wrong with his knees.

I really enjoyed the back-and-forth battles between Ishiura and Kotoeko, and MItakeumi and Meisei. 

I fully expected a henka from Chiyoshoma today, against Kotonowaka (whom he'd never beaten), but no, he won with straightforward yotsu-zumo.
Do it more, dude! Even if you lose, people will like you more.

So letting rikishi go through lengthy fights only to call a mono-ii afterwards for something that happened much earlier is apparently a thing now... Whatever happened to shimpan raising their hand when they saw someone step out? I feel for poor old Tochinoshin, but at least it undermines the conspiracy theorists.

Yet again Ura survives a vicious kotonage attempt. When will they realise he's too bendy for that to work?

Takakeisho showed that he's not totally hopeless on the belt - and once again looked like he hurt himself in the process. Hope it's not too bad...

[Seiyashi 4,072]

2 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

So letting rikishi go through lengthy fights only to call a mono-ii afterwards for something that happened much earlier is apparently a thing now... Whatever happened to shimpan raising their hand when they saw someone step out? I feel for poor old Tochinoshin, but at least it undermines the conspiracy theorists.

So the last word on both this and yesterday's hansoku: Herouth says that Shikoroyama mentioned on today's NHK broadcast that some years ago, a match was stopped on suspicion of a foot having gone out, but the foot had not in fact gone out and the bout had to be redone. Therefore, the policy was instituted that in any cases of doubt, the match would be allowed to continue and the footage would be checked afterwards. In other words, a hand raised for a mono-ii isn't always just for what happened to end the bout; it can be for something much earlier.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the video room shimpan were also communicating with the dohyo-side shimpan even during the bout to highlight something, since there's a few more shimpan and a lot more monitors in the video room.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Rocks 1,807]

So, do they just get off on taking hard fought wins away from Tochinoshin? That heel did not look down to me. 

[Jakusotsu 5,876]

1 minute ago, Rocks said:

That heel did not look down to me. 

Agreed. And IIRC they didn't even bother to check for footmarks.

[AnOzekisFish 16]

2 hours ago, lackmaker said:

It's really choose which way you're gonna lose.

I think that's true enough. I'm struggling to see who can step up to change that, if Terunofuji stays healthy.

As an aside, Terunofuji is by far the most intimidating looking rikishi at the moment. The rest of them are obviously daunting physical specimens, but it feels like Teru could probably push me over the bales with a strong stare. It makes me wonder if he has that persona outside of work too.

[Seiyashi 4,072]

19 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

20 minutes ago, Rocks said:

That heel did not look down to me. 

Agreed. And IIRC they didn't even bother to check for footmarks.

Au contraire, when they showed the replay I thought, that's definitely touched down.

It's also not the first time Tochinoshin has lost via that exact same problem via mono-ii, and it unfortunately won't be the last if he keeps wrestling despite his physical ailments.

[Seiyashi 4,072]

8 minutes ago, AnOzekisFish said:

2 hours ago, lackmaker said:

It's really choose which way you're gonna lose.

I think that's true enough. I'm struggling to see who can step up to change that, if Terunofuji stays healthy.

As an aside, Terunofuji is by far the most intimidating looking rikishi at the moment. The rest of them are obviously daunting physical specimens, but it feels like Teru could probably push me over the bales with a strong stare. It makes me wonder if he has that persona outside of work too.

Takakeisho is probably the best candidate to do it most reliably, since IIRC Takakeisho and Takayasu have the best records against Terunofuji since his return to makuuchi. But Terunofuji also drops a bout here and there every basho, and he's never gone perfect, so it's probably a dark horse who will take a bout or two from him. Tomorrow's Hoshoryu is probably the best candidate (and also the last non-sanyaku hope); Ichinojo is otherwise the only person I can see who can match Terunofuji for just strength and endurance.

If you only watch sumo during honbasho, every rikishi will give you that impression, pretty much. Takakeisho and Kisenosato are two other famous grumps. But during TV specials and on fansa (and in Kisenosato's case, after retirement), they're almost a different person entirely: they actually smile.

[Seregost 130]

8 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Au contraire, when they showed the replay I thought, that's definitely touched down.

It's also not the first time Tochinoshin has lost via that exact same problem via mono-ii, and it unfortunately won't be the last if he keeps wrestling despite his physical ailments.

The infamous bout against Asanoyama, I would say

[Sakura 1,480]

7 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

Since we are into day 9 now, Will Pierre be able to do his promotions/demotions discussion?

I'd wait until after Day 10. More recently, when he's been able to do it, he starts posting then. 

If that doesn't happen, then I'll see about making one of my poor facsimilies of the topic.

[Sakura 1,480]

51 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Agreed. And IIRC they didn't even bother to check for footmarks.

I disagree. It looked like the foot went down on the replay to me, and when his heel came up it seemed to have more clay on it than when it went down.

[Asapedroryu 228]

Tochi's foot was clearly out.

To be honest i had no clue why they called a monoii when i was watching Kinta's video and even the replays were not that clear to me. Having now re-watch the video in Jason's channel, it is clear that the foot was out (3rd replay). You can even see a dark mark on the floor after minute 3:25 that wasn't there on 3:20 (Jason's video), of course this after going back and fourth with the video. First time i saw nothing of this.

[RabidJohn 1,724]

4 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

... the policy was instituted that in any cases of doubt, the match would be allowed to continue and the footage would be checked afterwards. In other words, a hand raised for a mono-ii isn't always just for what happened to end the bout; it can be for something much earlier.

That makes sense of what we're seeing.
I saw Tochinoshin's heel go well out, but I wasn't sure he'd touched the sand until I saw the replay.

[Sue 494]

3 hours ago, Rocks said:

So, do they just get off on taking hard fought wins away from Tochinoshin? That heel did not look down to me. 

From the first angle, it didn't. From the second angle, it did. Tough break either way.

[hakutorizakura 609]

17 hours ago, Yangnomazuma said:

Although I know who you mean with "TKO" much like the various "Taka" and "WTK" that litter the board, is it REALLY that difficult to use people's actual shikona?  Clarity is cool....

Sorry, it's simply just one of those nicknames of his like Power Hamster, the Roly Poly, or Indy's Rolling Boulder... I didn't mean to write an abbreviation of his shikona, and I am actually amused with the variety of shorthands used in this forum like Hak and Kak and Terut (not that Teru, the other Teru) 

[hakutorizakura 609]

Anyway, kakenage day today! And lots of legs left behind...

[rokudenashi 297]

The makuuchi yūshō-arasoi is getting quite exciting if you ask me. The odds are on Mitakeumi to beat Takarafuji tomorrow and keep himself in the race, but after that, who knows. I do hope he can break the second-week curse this time, just to keep things interesting.

Terunofuji and Takakeishō should beat Hōshōryū and Meisei respectively, but an upset or two would not go amiss. Abi meets tricky customer Tobizaru who, while spotty this tournament, has pulled out some impressive victories. Harder to predict that one.

Irrespective of division, the frontrunner I'm pulling for most is Ōhō. He has looked incredibly composed so far, and is doing a bang-up job of setting himself up as a key top-division prospect in 2022. Nevertheless, Ichiyamamoto should give him some trouble.

The makushita arasoi has whittled down to three serious contenders, 47w Ryūden, 13e Rōga, and 33e Chiyonoumi, who seems to be free of the ailments troubling him the past few basho and is in jūryō-level form. Rōga's recent tournament performances have led me to question his ceiling, but I do believe we'll see him don an ōichō within the next year. None of the leaders are fighting tomorrow, so in terms of interesting bouts (my humble opinion) we have:

• 15td Ōshōma vs 13w Kan'no
• 8w Ōtsuji vs 7w Ōshōumi
• 17e Tsukahara vs 17w Fujiseiun

Finally, tomorrow Magaki-oyakata will appear on the NSK Youtube channel's daily oyakata commentary, if anyone is interested!

Edited November 22, 2021 by rokudenashi
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