New Juryo for Kyushu 2021

[Asashosakari 19,667]

New:
Terasawa, now Asanowaka 朝乃若 - Ms1e 5-2, Takasago-beya, Niigata, 26 years old
Hiradoumi - Ms2e 5-2, Sakaigawa-beya, Nagasaki, 21 years old

Returning:
Kotokuzan - Ms2w 4-3, Arashio-beya, Kanagawa, 27 years old, 2nd promotion, back after 1 basho

Curveball. No further promotions.
 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Asashosakari

[themistyseas 242]

  On 29/09/2021 at 00:55, Asashosakari said:

Terasawa, now Asanowaka 朝乃若 - Ms1e 5-2, Takasago-beya, Niigata, 26 years old

A little disappointed they haven't gone for Asanousagi or Asanohai with this one...

[WAKATAKE 2,671]

Takakento stays with a 3-12???

[Reonito 1,522]

  On 29/09/2021 at 00:55, Asashosakari said:

Curveball. No further promotions.

Does that mean Hakuho's intai wasn't official in time? The alternative seems highly unlikely...

  On 29/09/2021 at 01:54, WAKATAKE said:

Takakento stays with a 3-12???

 

[Katooshu 3,335]

Crazy if a J13 with 3-12 stays. It's gotta be something else...

Edited September 29, 2021 by Katooshu

[Asashosakari 19,667]

I would say the most likely outcome is a repeat of the 41-rikishi makuuchi we saw after Asashoryu's exit with Hakuho's name off the banzuke but his spot not redistributed yet for Kyushu. On the other hand, I said something quite similar about his spot likely getting blanked when Sokokurai retired to become oyakata very shortly after a banzuke-making session, and they didn't bother with it there, so who knows. On the other other hand, nobody really pays attention to makushita where Sokokurai was, while Hakuho getting listed would look odd indeed.

[Gurowake 4,107]

So I guess this is very good evidence that they (at least, this basho) draw up the banzuke immediately, and it just doesn't get ratified until Wednesday.  There was certainly enough time for them to put together the banzuke if they were so inclined, and probably didn't want to throw it away when Hakuho suddenly retired.  My guess is that they will list Hakuho, since he's not having a disciplinary-related retirement.  At least, since we're going to have to submit 42 names for GTB, that's the obvious thing to do there.

[Asashosakari 19,667]

  On 29/09/2021 at 03:11, Gurowake said:

So I guess this is very good evidence that they (at least, this basho) draw up the banzuke immediately, and it just doesn't get ratified until Wednesday.

I'm sorry, that strikes me as a rather wild interpretation that's not supported by anything that's ever been publicly released about how the banzuke-making is done. Isn't it much more likely that they're simply very rule-minded and refusing to incorporate any intai that isn't 100% confirmed? (Which we know Hakuho's isn't, because it was already stated that they'll deal with it on Thursday.)

I forget which lower-ranker it was, but we did have a case some time ago where an oyakata admitted that he had flubbed the submission of his deshi's intai notice and was essentially left standing outside the doors of the committee meeting which had already commenced, even though it would have been easy to acknowledge that additional intai even with the slight tardiness.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Asashosakari

[specialweek 2 136]

  On 29/09/2021 at 04:43, Asashosakari said:

I'm sorry, that strikes me as a rather wild interpretation that's not supported by anything that's ever been publicly released about how the banzuke-making is done. Isn't it much more likely that they're simply very rule-minded and refusing to incorporate any intai that isn't 100% confirmed? (Which we know Hakuho's isn't, because it was already stated that they'll deal with it on Thursday.)

I forget which lower-ranker it was, but we did have a case some time ago where an oyakata admitted that he had flubbed the submission of his deshi's intai notice and was essentially left standing outside the doors of the committee meeting which had already commenced, even though it would have been easy to acknowledge that additional intai even with the slight tardiness.

Sadogatake?

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Papers say Hakuhou will be unlisted. But of course, not official.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Asashiyuu, Takakentou and  Kyokushuuhou going down, no? 41 Makuuchi?

Edited September 29, 2021 by Kintamayama

[Seiyashi 4,108]

  On 29/09/2021 at 05:39, Kintamayama said:

Asashiyuu, Takakentou and  Kyokushuuhou going down, no?

Takagenji's unfilled spot from the last banzuke. Three promotions ought to correspond with Takakento, Asashiyu, and filling Takagenji's spot. That means Kyokushuho should be safe. Hakuho's retirement should have created a fourth vacancy in sekitoridom, so it feels weird that Hakuho should be unlisted making makuuchi de-facto 41 rikishi for Kyushu (and only 40 rikishi actually participating because Asanoyama), unless the NSK thinks this is a Tokitsuumi-type situation where the rikishi wasn't necessarily disgraced but they just want to avoid nimai-kansatsu. Which again begs the question why the delay in his case.

Unless we are shrinking either makuuchi or juryo by 2. Then Kyokushuho is demoted and Takagenji's and Hakuho's spots just "vanish". But that's just, I dunno, nonsense.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

  On 29/09/2021 at 05:44, Seiyashi said:

Takagenji's unfilled spot from the last banzuke. Three promotions ought to correspond with Takakento, Asashiyu, and filling Takagenji's spot. That means Kyokushuho should be safe. Hakuho's retirement should have created a fourth vacancy in sekitoridom, so it feels weird that Hakuho should be unlisted making makuuchi de-facto 41 rikishi for Kyushu (and only 40 rikishi actually participating because Asanoyama), unless the NSK thinks this is a Tokitsuumi-type situation where the rikishi wasn't necessarily disgraced but they just want to avoid nimai-kansatsu. Which again begs the question why the delay in his case.

Unless we are shrinking either makuuchi or juryo by 2. Then Kyokushuho is demoted and Takagenji's and Hakuho's spots just "vanish". But that's just, I dunno, nonsense.

Yeah, forgot about the ghost spot. Interesting indeed.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Terasawa - new Asanowaka  朝乃若

Edited September 29, 2021 by Kintamayama

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

And I suppose the loser in all this is Jokoryu who misses out on (another) return to juryo.

[Seiyashi 4,108]

  On 29/09/2021 at 05:49, Tigerboy1966 said:

And I suppose the loser in all this is Jokoryu who misses out on (another) return to juryo.

4-3 from Ms4e was always a crapshoot in terms of getting promoted, anyway, with the odds more against than with. Of 87 rikishi who scored 4-3 from that rank in the DB, only 14 got promoted, and the rest remained stuck in makushita, for approximately 5 to 1 against. I know it's heavily dependent on surrounding performance, but 87 feels like a large enough sample size to cancel out those vagaries.

[WAKATAKE 2,671]

I think I might have an idea why the JSA is taking their time with processing Hakuho's intai papers:

- Hakuho's retirement bonus is going to be beyond anything that they have paid out in the history of the organization
- To compensate, they reduce the amount of sekitori salaries they pay temporarily

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Asanowaka on his new shikona, taken after coach Wakamatsu Oyakata who was Asanowaka when we were younger- Terasawa was injury-prone, ex-Asanowaka never missed a day in his 80 basho career. "He was famous for going all out and was never injured, so I decided to assume that shikona. I feel very happy, and I feel I shall gambarize from here on," he said.  He was injured in 2018 in his first Jonokuchi basho and dropped off the banzuke entirely. "I was in a bad place mentally and physically and couldn't even think about doing sumo. But with a little help from my Oyakata and other rikishi, I made it back. I just want to get a kachikoshi without getting injured.," he summed.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Kintamayama

[Stelios 30]

They just want to list Hakuho as Yokozuna-Ozeki! Oh the devils!

[WAKATAKE 2,671]

  On 29/09/2021 at 05:57, Stelios said:

They just want to list Hakuho as Yokozuna-Ozeki! Oh the devils!

There will be two ozeki "PROPERLY" on the banzuke next basho, that is a non issue

[Stelios 30]

  On 29/09/2021 at 05:59, WAKATAKE said:

There will be two ozeki "PROPERLY" on the banzuke next basho, that is a non issue

Worth the try! Keep on "forgetting" Shodai!

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

Whether Hakuho will be listed or not, I think it's safe to assume there won't be a M18.

(So Tsurugisho vs. Shohozan was possibly a real exchange bout after all...)

[Kintamayama 45,530]

The other first timer Hiradoumi also has a tale to tell. "It was my dream and I have realized it," he said. His ani-deshi was now-deceased Hibikiryuu who died from injuries suffered on the dohyo. "I sent him a message saying we will gambarize together. He answered me with an e-mail he dictated to a nurse. 'If you make it to Juryo, I'll get well!' I'm sure he is really happy for me now, and I am happy as well.," he said. "I think he strongly felt he needed to gambarize for Hibikiryuu's sake.  Now he can deliver his good message to him and that makes me happy. This was a bad year, especially for the heya. I hope we shall all gambarize now," added Sakaigawa Oyakata.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Kintamayama

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

I look forward to seeing Hiradoumi in juryo. He's got an old school profile, starting at 15 and quietly grinding his way up the lower ranks while putting on the kilos and developing his skills. Very similar to Meisei.

[Gurowake 4,107]

  On 29/09/2021 at 04:43, Asashosakari said:

(Which we know Hakuho's isn't, because it was already stated that they'll deal with it on Thursday.)

I guess I missed that part.  I thought it was acknowledged on Tuesday.