Goeido to start new stable according to Chris Sumo - true?

[Seiyashi 4,108]

Although as an ex ozeki he's practically expected to open a stable. That's not to say that if you were a good rikishi you'll do well as a coach: witness Musashigawa under Musashimaru.

It does however confirm that Takekuma isn't a loaner kabu as he would be ineligible to open a stable otherwise. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Seiyashi

[RabidJohn 1,850]

5 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

That's not to say that if you were a good rikishi you'll do well as a coach: witness Musashigawa under Musashimaru.

True, but there's so much more to being an oyakata than the coaching, like providing and maintaining accommodation and training premises, and having a good eye for talent (and if they want to rise in the NSK hierarchy, being something of a politician, too). 

Sure, no sekitori from Musashigawa yet, but also no scandals (that I recall), which is not something some of the more 'successful' oyakata could claim...

[Seiyashi 4,108]

43 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

True, but there's so much more to being an oyakata than the coaching, like providing and maintaining accommodation and training premises, and having a good eye for talent (and if they want to rise in the NSK hierarchy, being something of a politician, too). 

Sure, no sekitori from Musashigawa yet, but also no scandals (that I recall), which is not something some of the more 'successful' oyakata could claim...

That's not a particularly high bar to reach. It almost puts me in mind of David Mitchell's observances on living a mediocre life that was just sufficiently interesting, so as not to be interesting solely by virtue of its mediocrity.

That said, AFAIK Takekuma hasn't himself recruited any deshi either, which is odd for someone who is expressing a wish to open their own stable soon. At best he might wind up doing a Terao where his deshi do mae-zumo in Sakaigawa at most, but I wonder whether he is being pushed rather than jumping of his own accord.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Seiyashi

[themistyseas 242]

2 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

That said, AFAIK Takekuma hasn't himself recruited any deshi either, which is odd for someone who is expressing a wish to open their own stable soon. At best he might wind up doing a Terao where his deshi do mae-zumo in Sakaigawa at most, but I wonder whether he is being pushed rather than jumping of his own accord.

Wasn't there some speculation that this was his guy? http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=12690

I seem to remember that elsewhere in the forum, and would be consistent if Takekuma recruits are going to pick up the 'Go' kanji from his shikona which is certainly not seen elsewhere in the stable

[Seiyashi 4,108]

17 minutes ago, themistyseas said:

Wasn't there some speculation that this was his guy? http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=12690

I seem to remember that elsewhere in the forum, and would be consistent if Takekuma recruits are going to pick up the 'Go' kanji from his shikona which is certainly not seen elsewhere in the stable

The DB is in 404 heaven right now, but if you're talking about who I think you're talking about, then by some odd coincidence that guy also has the Go kanji in his own name (although pronounced as Take, same as Takekaze). So unless Takekuma is looking out specifically for people with that quirk, the arguments in favour of his being Takekuma's deshi are somewhat weakened, though not improbable; the creation mechanism of his shikona seems somewhat like Goeido's own.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Gurowake 4,099]

I think it might be more interesting if his deshi used a -do suffix.  I can't recall seeing that as an ending kanji by anyone else, though it's the ending kanji in a lot of real words, and thus might be interesting to see people named things like Tenzando or something.  Sorry if my gaijin mind isn't thinking the right way.

[Asojima 2,874]

1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

I think it might be more interesting if his deshi used a -do suffix.  I can't recall seeing that as an ending kanji by anyone else, though it's the ending kanji in a lot of real words, and thus might be interesting to see people named things like Tenzando or something.  Sorry if my gaijin mind isn't thinking the right way.

There have been 28 Do/Michi suffixed shikona with 57 containing the character.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Asojima

[Octofuji 368]

19 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

I wonder, too.  Was he known as a teacher/mentor in the heya?

This thread suggests he wasn't particularly, at least while an active rikishi.

 

[rokudenashi 324]

9 hours ago, Gurowake said:

I think it might be more interesting if his deshi used a -do suffix.  I can't recall seeing that as an ending kanji by anyone else, though it's the ending kanji in a lot of real words, and thus might be interesting to see people named things like Tenzando or something.  Sorry if my gaijin mind isn't thinking the right way.

As we know Oshiogawa-oyakata is already building a brand new facility for his eventual breakaway heya, and the 豪 kanji is certainly more distinctive, so who takes it as the signature of their deshi's shikona? Oshiogawa with his seniority in years, or Takekuma with his superior career rank? If the former is the case then certainly 道 feels like the next best signature character (thinking  about Takekuma's involvement in the Sumō-dō documentary, as well). 栄 is quite a generic character shikona-wise; it has recently been used in combination with heya signature characters to provide a well-templated name - Chiyosakae, Tokisakae, Sakaekaze, Hokutosakae etc - for this reason I feel that it doesn't really bind to a specific stable well...

Someone please step in and tell me I'm assessing this too deeply

[Asojima 2,874]

Go (豪) is the first character of Goeido's real first name.  It means huge or powerful.  It is also pronounced as Take, as in Takekaze.  It is little used in shikona, but would be an appropriate heya flag.  The Do (道 ) means road or path.  There are few ending characters used as heya  flags, so Go looks more likely.  Most heya do not have flags in their shikona.  I suspect Goeido would follow that tradition. 

[Seiyashi 4,108]

It would be interesting if we see the first case of the same kanji used by two different heya but pronounced differently to distinguish them. 

[rokudenashi 324]

On 02/11/2021 at 02:43, Asojima said:

Go (豪) is the first character of Goeido's real first name.  It means huge or powerful.  It is also pronounced as Take, as in Takekaze.  It is little used in shikona, but would be an appropriate heya flag.  The Do (道 ) means road or path.  There are few ending characters used as heya  flags, so Go looks more likely.  Most heya do not have flags in their shikona.  I suspect Goeido would follow that tradition. 

Ah yes, I had forgotten about your first point. That rather sways the decision in Gōeidō's favour, doesn't it.

On 02/11/2021 at 05:34, Seiyashi said:

It would be interesting if we see the first case of the same kanji used by two different heya but pronounced differently to distinguish them. 

A character as distinctive as 豪 strikes me as a poor candidate for such a precedent. Instead, why not pluck from the kabu - we have 押 and 尾 (discounting 川 for its ubiquity) - alternatively there are other characters which share the reading and semantics, 丈 for example.

[Benevolance 2,508]

Perhaps they could try and work in 角番 to the deshi shikona somehow?

[Seiyashi 4,108]

At least the kaku- kanji might also be appropriate, funnily enough, since that's the same character used to refer to the sumo world. Cf Hitachiyama's title of kakusei, "Sumo Saint".

[RabidJohn 1,850]

9 hours ago, Benevolance said:

Perhaps they could try and work in 角番 to the deshi shikona somehow?

Wow! I get the joke, but I did not expect Google's literal translation to be a mathematical term.