Hidenoumi and Shiden under suspicion of illegal gambling

[Seiyashi 4,108]

Ha. 10 years on, has nothing changed?

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202112220000713.html

Hidenoumi and Shiden, both of Kise, are under suspicion of illegal gambling and will be kyujo from Hatsu 2022. The kyujo was enforced upon them by Kise-oyakata, ex-Higonoumi, and the details are still under investigation - no word yet on what kind of gambling or whether only those two were involved.

On top of the flashbacks to 2011, ex-Higonoumi is no stranger to controversy; his stable was forced to close and he was demoted two ranks when he allowed yakuza from the Yamaguchi-gumi to secure seats at the Nagoya basho some years ago. Maybe that's behind the proactive action here. But in any case, this might get a bit worse than we expect real quick.

[Kintamayama 45,542]

"I have no idea whether others are involved. The special compliance committee (comprised of people outside the Kyokai) will be convened at some point. As this has suddenly happened, we have to check the members' availability first. I have no idea when they will convene. We are all doing our very best to overcome the virus, so this occurrence at this time is very regrettable. It's really too bad that we have to force them to go kyujo.." said Shibatayama..

Edited December 22, 2021 by Kintamayama

[Katooshu 3,335]

8 years to juryo and that's how Shiden's sekitori debut goes 

[Churaumi 745]

Well, poo. 2021 was kind of a rough year for my sports fandom and the streak continues, apparently. I was looking forward to Shiden finally making it, but...poo.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Churaumi

[Asashosakari 19,682]

  On 22/12/2021 at 18:12, Katooshu said:

8 years to juryo and that's how Shiden's sekitori debut goes 

Shid(en) happens, or rather in this case he doesn't happen...

[Yamanashi 3,908]

Sorry for being nuclear dense, but "Shiden" doesn't show up on the db.  Is he the same as "Shiba"?

[Seiyashi 4,108]

  On 22/12/2021 at 20:31, Yamanashi said:

Sorry for being nuclear dense, but "Shiden" doesn't show up on the db.  Is he the same as "Shiba"?

Yeah. Shikona change as of his juryo promotion, which, if he's found guilty, is likely to be revoked as penance imposed upon him by his stablemaster, a la Gokushindo.

[Chartorenji 243]

https://www.tokyo-sports.co.jp/sports/sumou/3882383/

 

Seems both Hidenoumi and Shiden were spotted, and other wrestlers might be involved?

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

The two rikishi were seen entering and exiting an illegal casino in Saitama-ken. IF the allegations are true a couple of thoughts occur to me...

I was expecting this to be an online issue. I didn't expect that they would have been so rash as to be visiting a gambling den in person, as sumo wrestlers are not exactly stealthy, are they? It also looks that apart from the gambling aspect, our guys would seem likely to have been breaking COVID rules.

The third paragraph of the article seems to be saying that the affair may involve wrestlers from another stable (singular). Is this just a quirk of Google Translate (I know that plurality is conveyed very differently in Japanese) or is it saying that only one other stable is involved.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Tigerboy1966
copy edit

[WAKATAKE 2,677]

  On 23/12/2021 at 06:33, Tigerboy1966 said:

The third paragraph of the article seems to be saying that the affair may involve wrestlers from another stable (singular). Is this just a quirk of Google Translate (I know that plurality is conveyed very differently in Japanese) or is it saying that only one other stable is involved.

Reading it in Japanese that does appear to be what they are trying to say: multiple rikishi from another heya

[Seiyashi 4,108]

  On 23/12/2021 at 06:33, Tigerboy1966 said:

I was expecting this to be an online issue. I didn't expect that they would have been so rash as to be visiting a gambling den in person, as sumo wrestlers are not exactly stealthy, are they? It also looks that apart from the gambling aspect, our guys would seem likely to have been breaking COVID rules.

It won't be the first nor last time sumo wrestlers attempt to get away with visiting somewhere they shouldn't. The Asanoyama scandal thread probably still has a couple of anecdotes from JG or Moti on this very topic.

[Kintamayama 45,542]

  On 23/12/2021 at 06:33, Tigerboy1966 said:

 

The third paragraph of the article seems to be saying that the affair may involve wrestlers from another stable (singular). Is this just a quirk of Google Translate (I know that plurality is conveyed very differently in Japanese) or is it saying that only one other stable is involved.

It's definitely being implied that this is going to turn into a helluva scandal with others involved. Even talk about dismissal for the guilty, as gambling is a serious offense in Japan. Usually when they write "it appears to be that.. etc.," it really is, but they are being careful at this stage since it's not official yet. And this article is on Tokyo sports, not one of the majors, but as such, can speculate on a wider scale.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Kintamayama

[rhyen 1,846]

  On 23/12/2021 at 07:08, WAKATAKE said:

Reading it in Japanese that does appear to be what they are trying to say: multiple rikishi from another heya

Which stables are located in Saitama?

[Seiyashi 4,108]

Based on Tachiai's recent infographic from the Nishonoseki myoseki consequences, Tamanoi, Sakaigawa, and Irumagawa as well.

If you are going by geography, then it seems a good time to mention ISJ's tweet:

Looking at heya location and university affiliation (basically who would have geographic opportunity and might be hanging out with the same group), on top of the rikishi in ISJ's tweet, there's no known Nichidai alumni from those three other stables in the DB. That said, Irumagawa-oyakata (ex-Tochitsukasa) and some of his former sekitori were ex-Nichidai, though they seem a generation removed from Hidenoumi and whoever his partners in crime are.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Kaminariyuki 500]

  On 22/12/2021 at 18:15, Churaumi said:

Well, poo. 2021 was kind of a rough year for my sports fandom and the streak continues, apparently. I was looking forward to Shiden finally making it, but...poo.

I feel for you. I really wanted to see Hokuseiho in his new silk mawashi, but we only had to wait 7-8 bashos to be disappointed. I suppose we did get the one bout...

[Kaminariyuki 500]

I wonder if any emerging scandal is fueled or soused by occurring at the New Year's break... Even the Japanese have a little extra time on their hands.

[Churaumi 745]

  On 27/12/2021 at 17:08, Kaminariyuki said:

I feel for you. I really wanted to see Hokuseiho in his new silk mawashi, but we only had to wait 7-8 bashos to be disappointed. I suppose we did get the one bout...

At least Hokuseiho will probably get back to juryo this year, so hopefully we won't be waiting too long to see him get a good workout in juryo.

[Mightyduck 67]

I really hope Tobizaru isn't involved

[Gurowake 4,109]

  On 23/12/2021 at 08:24, Kintamayama said:

It's definitely being implied that this is going to turn into a helluva scandal with others involved. Even talk about dismissal for the guilty, as gambling is a serious offense in Japan. Usually when they write "it appears to be that.. etc.," it really is, but they are being careful at this stage since it's not official yet. And this article is on Tokyo sports, not one of the majors, but as such, can speculate on a wider scale.

So it's safe to say that their forced kyujo/suspension is 100% justified, and we're not going to be looking at a case where they suspend some rikishi, and then exonerate them of any wrongdoing, but still remote them?  One supposes that entering and exiting an illegal casino is not illegal, and maybe the rikishi were looking for something completely different and didn't stay for very long.  I assume from the quoted post that this is absolutely not a innocent little mishap of stumbling into the wrong place, or being mistaken for someone else, but it doesn't look like there's anything concrete so far that would make that true.  I'm really concerned about that being the case for Shiden, who perhaps would not make it back as a sekitori were he suspended despite doing nothing wrong.

Obviously if these guys actually did gamble, they should make sure the door doesn't hit them on the way out.  But given how one's ranking is affected from missing a tournament, I would hate it happening to someone totally innocent.

[Asashosakari 19,682]

  On 28/12/2021 at 00:56, Gurowake said:

So it's safe to say that their forced kyujo/suspension is 100% justified, and we're not going to be looking at a case where they suspend some rikishi, and then exonerate them of any wrongdoing, but still remote them?  One supposes that entering and exiting an illegal casino is not illegal, and maybe the rikishi were looking for something completely different and didn't stay for very long.  I assume from the quoted post that this is absolutely not a innocent little mishap of stumbling into the wrong place, or being mistaken for someone else, but it doesn't look like there's anything concrete so far that would make that true.  I'm really concerned about that being the case for Shiden, who perhaps would not make it back as a sekitori were he suspended despite doing nothing wrong.

Obviously if these guys actually did gamble, they should make sure the door doesn't hit them on the way out.  But given how one's ranking is affected from missing a tournament, I would hate it happening to someone totally innocent.

Keep in mind that this story became public with their suspensions from Hatsu basho already a part of it, so it's highly likely that a lot had happened before that already that we've not been made privy to. Compare to Asanoyama's scandal where both his shisho and the Kyokai were clearly caught flat-footed by its initial appearance in the press, and they had to scramble to deal with it.

[Seiyashi 4,108]

  On 28/12/2021 at 00:56, Gurowake said:

But given how one's ranking is affected from missing a tournament, I would hate it happening to someone totally innocent.

If they are innocent it would be trivial to freeze their rankings kosho style for the next banzuke. The NSK is hardly that boneheaded, IMO. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Akinomaki 40,816]

  On 22/12/2021 at 13:57, Kintamayama said:

"The special compliance committee (comprised of people outside the Kyokai) will be convened at some point. As this has suddenly happened, we have to check the members' availability first. I have no idea when they will convene. We are all doing our very best to overcome the virus, so this occurrence at this time is very regrettable. It's really too bad that we have to force them to go kyujo.." said Shibatayama..

Oguruma at the rikishi-kai on the 25th: "Next there will be inquiries at the compliance committee and it will become clear" - Hidenoumi and Shiden were absent from the rikishi-kai. https://www.sankei.com/article/20211225-Q5R5YJNL7NN5RFNNFM23LQETCI/

It would have been the debut there for Shiden, still no word when the committee will start with it

[Gurowake 4,109]

  On 28/12/2021 at 06:25, Seiyashi said:

If they are innocent it would be trivial to freeze their rankings kosho style for the next banzuke. The NSK is hardly that boneheaded, IMO. 

They might not be cleared until after the next banzuke release.  If they're still under suspicion and the outcome is uncertain, which action should they take?

[Seiyashi 4,108]

  On 28/12/2021 at 14:58, Gurowake said:

They might not be cleared until after the next banzuke release.  If they're still under suspicion and the outcome is uncertain, which action should they take?

The Sokokurai solution. Put them back where they are right now, even if they have to be demoted for the next banzuke.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,276]

The kyujo was decided by their own oyakata so there will be a drop regardless of their true activities. I could only see rank reinstatement if kyujo was forced by nsk.