Kyushu 2022 discussion (results)

[Kaninoyama 1,818]

3 hours ago, Leoben said:

Isegahama has to be one of the all-time great coaches. Two Yokozuna and multiple sekitori is an extremely strong resume.

He may be, but I've seen their training sessions up close numerous times, and mostly Isegahama Oyakata just sits there with the same lemon-eating scowl he always wears and hardly says a word. 

As for the rikishi, both Terutsuyoshi and Midorifuji oozed talent well before reaching sekitori status, but they were both so diminutive--especially Midorifuji who couldn't have been more than 90 kilos when he joined the heya--I thought to myself it's a shame they'll never make it far because of their size. Was happily proven wrong.

As for Nishikifuji, he was there the last time I saw a training session about four years ago, and there was absolutely nothing about him then that suggested the force he's become. Must have just trained his tail off. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Kaninoyama

[Sumo Spiffy 579]

8 hours ago, Barutokai said:

Psychologist. And 1 per Ichimon should be way enough.

If they really took the athletes' mental states seriously enough to put sports psychologists on staff, one per ichimon wouldn't be nearly enough. One per heya is definitely overkill given how small a lot of stables are, but there are almost six hundred rikishi in pro sumo. Asking each psychologist to handle, on average, over a hundred people, when your goal with this type of hire is to have the psychologist know the athletes on deep level and be thoroughly engaged with them and their careers, is way too much when they're also spread out over an area.

If the whole ichimon practiced in one place, maybe, theoretically, one psychologist could do the job; NFL teams have rosters of 50-ish people and usually have one psychologist, so in that case I don't think an ichimon would need more than two. But if ichimon psychologists would have to travel to the stables to talk to the wrestlers, you'd need a few to deal with the time demands, and if the wrestlers had to go to the psychologists' offices, you'd want a few in good locations to make it as easy as possible for guys from certain heyas to go to one, from other heyas to go to another, etc.

[Old Shatterhand is dead 29]

Some thoughts after half time with a little more. This was day 9, the first one I've really enjoyed so far in the tournament. 

It's been a strange tournament though, probably the strangest so far in this "transition year" with different rikishi winning each tournament. There will probably be a new winner this time.

It's very likely that there will be only one ozeki by January, Mitakeumi can start all over again if he still has the strength, he has to win all his matches now to become ozeki  again in January, and that's unlikely based on what we've seen. Shodai is also kicking his last legs, he will need a brace from him too to avoid being relegated to ozekiwake, although we have seen that from him before.

Takakeisho is on form so far, although his loss to the flying monkey today has somewhat overshadowed his performance so far.

Currently Oho (!!!) and Hoshoryu are leading, the latter I think is starting to get the idea in his head that he could win this tournament while Takayasu. ..

There's the sports media, Beckham bends it, Takayasu screws it. It would be a surprise if he did end up winning the tournament, but half-philippino bear has so far always stumbled nose-first at the raspberry entrance. Always.

Takarafuji, my dearest favorite neckless michelin doll... 0:9 Hopelessness is Terutsuyoshi incarnate compared to him. The latter will almost certainly resume salting away at the juryo from January. By the way, what the hell happened in the Isegahama stable during the preparation?

Then there's Chiyotairyu and his retirement. Not just from the tournament, from everything sumo. Intai on day 7. That's it, no more, no more faxni, no more months, years of suffering, struggling with the unchangeable, slipping down to juryo, then to makushita to the unpaid. Done. Opening a restaurant, thank you very much, fed up with sumo.

And what a sensation he was when he burst into the sumo world, with many people calling him the next Japanese (!!) yokozuna. As a university yokozuna, he started from MS 15, but was injured, then went from MS 46 to Maegashira 10 in one year.

Then there is the Aki winner Tamawashi, the iron man of sumo, who is terrible, but today he beat the otherwise despicable performance of Ura with a technique I have never heard of before: gasshohineri. I tried to look up the last time he did this in makuuchi, but I was unsuccessful...

Juryo: I haven't seen today's yet, but in general ex-Hakuho, Miyagino oyakata what the heck is he doing with this Hokuseiho kid? Why he did not he shouted his head off that he can't even do a measly tachiai in juryo? He starts every single game from behind because he just stands up at the start. That's it, that's how he starts games. Besides, with his physical gifts, it is incomprehensible how slow, sluggish and predictable he is. If I were Hakuho, I'd give the kid a good workout in training, then he could still be somebody.

This tournament is starting to shape up, but really, the only thing worth mentioning for me so far was Mitoryu's  kotenage against Ichiyamamoto.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Old Shatterhand is dead

[Akinomaki 40,774]

Mitakeumi will struggle to remain in sanyaku

[Chartorenji 243]

16 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Mitakeumi will struggle to remain in sanyaku

was weird, he was doing good for a second there but it's fallen apart. 

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

Losing a yotsu battle against Midorifuji of all people tells it all. Mitakeumi was lucky to have even four Ozeki basho on his slate, being saved by Covid in July. I really wonder what's ailing him exactly.

On the other hand, might this really become the first Makuuchi kachi-koshi for Azumaryu in his 8th attempt?

[Seiyashi 4,108]

Well, it's over for Mitakeumi. He's lucky to stay in sanyaku this basho if he carries on. 

Takayasu and Takakeishō at least keeping up the chase, with yet another Nishikfuji appearance in the arasoi in the second week. Good on him. 

Hōshōryū's to lose. I don't see Ōhō getting past the better class of opponent that they're certainly going to start throwing at him from tomorrow. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Koorifuu 1,020]

Two quick notes;

- Interesting how more and more guys have decided that the way to go against Takakeisho is rattling him with harite and other unsettling shenanigans. The tadpole's short temper plays against him.

- With all the bottom juryo looking solid enough and Asanoyama's impending yusho looming on the horizon for first dibs on Chiyotairyu's sekitori slot, Shonannoumi is at considerable risk of getting Fukuoka'd. Shimazuumi is by far his best bet, and probably the only realistic one at the moment - barring home stretch meltdowns.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Koorifuu

[Octofuji 368]

It's good to see Enho doing better at 7-3. A juryo yusho playoff with him and Hokuseiho would be fun!

[Yamanashi 3,903]

I happened to catch Enho vs Shimazuumi in Juryo.  Enho came in very low at the tachiai, but reached up behind his neck to give his opponent a Hakuho slap!  I guess that's on the MIyagino checklist now.

[Gurowake 4,104]

5 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

With all the bottom juryo looking solid enough and Asanoyama's impending yusho looming on the horizon for first dibs on Chiyotairyu's sekitori slot, Shonannoumi is at considerable risk of getting Fukuoka'd. Shimazuumi is by far his best bet, and probably the only realistic one at the moment - barring home stretch meltdowns.

Eh, there are plenty of people who need multiple wins still near the bottom.  the J10s, Takakento, and Roga each need 2 of 5, so it's not unlikely that one of them will fail.  Tokushoryu, Gonoyama and Tsushimanada need 3 of 5, so at least one of them will also likely fail.  Shimazuumi needs 4 of 5, so he'll probably not make it.  Some of those might survive for lack of good candidates, but Shonannoumi is a clear lock to force down anyone with a demotable record.  What he'll probably be stopped by is losing his remaining matches, Asanoyama, Fujiseiun and Shiden winning their remaining matches, and there being only 3 clear demotions, which is at least reasonably likely.  Only 1 clear demotion (which is what we're at now) is incredibly unlikely, and just 2 doesn't seem particularly likely either.

[Akinomaki 40,774]

If Shodai doesn't repeat his turnaround performances from March and July we will have a banzuke with just 1 yokozuna and 1 ozeki, last time that happened 125 years ago. At the 2 kadoban escapes this year he wasn't as bad as 4-6 on day 10 though - still, again only 1 loss in the last 5 days would save him.

[Gurowake 4,104]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

If Shodai doesn't repeat his turnaround performances from March and July we will have a banzuke with just 1 yokozuna and 1 ozeki,

I think it's within reason, considering the lack of upper sanyaku, that if Hoshoryu wins the rest of his matches, he'll be promoted to Ozeki.  Maybe even with a single loss as well if he wins the yusho.  I don't think either will happen on the balance of probabilities, but I wouldn't be entirely shocked by it. That is, I'd probably take a bet if I got, say, 3-1 odds. (Contingent on him actually performing that well, of course.)

Edited November 22, 2022 by Gurowake

[Octofuji 368]

42 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

I think it's within reason, considering the lack of upper sanyaku, that if Hoshoryu wins the rest of his matches, he'll be promoted to Ozeki.  Maybe even with a single loss as well if he wins the yusho.

So if he did lose one more that would be 9-8-13 = 30 wins, without the historic double digit records that Asanoyama and Shodai could boast... The hurry to promote being the risk that Takakeisho gets demoted presumably, since Terunofuji can probably take as long as he wants to heal? And the assumption that only one Ozeki is a disastrous state-of-affairs?

Promoting Shodai with 32 wins hasn't worked out too well, if I was the Kyokai I would take a punt on either Takakeisho, or Wakatakakage getting to a total of at least 30 by next Basho.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Octofuji

[Takaguntha 16]

I can not see a tendency to overpromote Hoshoryu. And I am pretty sure, they will stick to this. Maybe this will fit to his personal devolpment- either way: his time should come. 

[Barutokai 65]

2 hours ago, Gurowake said:

I think it's within reason, considering the lack of upper sanyaku, that if Hoshoryu wins the rest of his matches, he'll be promoted to Ozeki.  Maybe even with a single loss as well if he wins the yusho.  I don't think either will happen on the balance of probabilities, but I wouldn't be entirely shocked by it.

I'm curious about that too. It's possible there could be 8 lower Sanyaku but only 2 (Y)O.

But all of Hoshoryus Sanyaku records before were simple KK or that one 9-6 @Octofuji mentioned.

WTK on the other hand had his JY last time. But he is 8-11-6. He would have to win out; but could also get a MK.
Then comes Kitanofuji to mind: promoted after July 1966, record: 8-10-10 (28). Only one other Ozeki: Yutakayama. But with 4 Yokozuna. The lowest ranked Y that Basho, Sadanoyama, got promoted to Ozeki with a... 8-9-13Y (30) record!

Anyway. Sometimes you think a Rikishi got robbed. But when I see Mitakeumi and Shodai fight (and also Ichinojo) it seems like the audience gets robbed.

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Barutokai
linked to DB

[Reonito 1,519]

9 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

Two quick notes;

- Interesting how more and more guys have decided that the way to go against Takakeisho is rattling him with harite and other unsettling shenanigans. The tadpole's short temper plays against him.

- With all the bottom juryo looking solid enough and Asanoyama's impending yusho looming on the horizon for first dibs on Chiyotairyu's sekitori slot, Shonannoumi is at considerable risk of getting Fukuoka'd. Shimazuumi is by far his best bet, and probably the only realistic one at the moment - barring home stretch meltdowns.

By my math, Gonoyama, Tsushimanada, and Tokushoryu all still need more wins than losses.

[Benevolance 2,511]

I wish the word on the street had clarified a bit more about what sort of clinic Shodai was going to put on.

[Yamanashi 3,903]

1 hour ago, Benevolance said:

I wish the word on the street had clarified a bit more about what sort of clinic Shodai was going to put on.

The problem with the word on the street is it often gets run over by events.

[Bakayokozuna 52]

Takerufuji was indeed the best challenge for Kyokutaisei in Jk.

The young rikishi actually won! You could see on that bout that Kyokutaisei is still limited. Smart to not push toohard for a jk yusho he doesnt rly need imo 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Bakayokozuna

[Katooshu 3,332]

Asanoyama and 6th matches don't go well together 

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

Very nice of him not to grab any unwarranted Makushita yushos. Tamashoho following in the footsteps of his sensei?

[Akinomaki 40,774]

Hokuseiho yesterday won because Chiyomaru "inadvertently" touched down first - tsukite. The DB doesn't have the kimarite yet - unknown - though there are plenty of tsukite in it

[Kaninoyama 1,818]

Down goes Oho. If someone doesn't step up and stop him, Hoshoryu might just waltz to his first yusho.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Kaninoyama

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

First win for Takarafuji but he looks to be in real pain, and what is a man who favours hidari-yotsu supposed to do when he can't use his left arm. I haven't seen a promotion/relegation topic yet but what do you think he needs to survive? Would 3-12 be enough?