Ichinojo Concerns

[Seiyashi 4,072]

Summarising a few other sources courtesy of Herouth over on Twitter: 

1. Nikkan and Sankei Shimbun (parent paper of Sanspo) have picked up the story as well, so it's in the mainstream press (or as Herouth puts it, the "small tabloid breaking gossip" bong has run out of copium).
2. Ichinojō has no comment other than the usual "I'll focus on my own sumo".
3. Shibatayama has also been asked about the story by Tokyo Sports; he confirms that the NSK knows about it, that there are investigations ongoing, but no further comment for now. Apparently no formal report/complaint was filed and he personally knows no further details either in his capacity as a director.

If Ichinojō really has done all he's said to have done, Kyūshū is going to be his last basho - I wonder how he will take the prospect of forcible retirement.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Chartorenji 235]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

Summarising a few other sources courtesy of Herouth over on Twitter: 

1. Nikkan and Sankei Shimbun (parent paper of Sanspo) have picked up the story as well, so it's in the mainstream press (or as Herouth puts it, the "small tabloid breaking gossip" bong has run out of copium).
2. Ichinojō has no comment other than the usual "I'll focus on my own sumo".
3. Shibatayama has also been asked about the story by Tokyo Sports; he confirms that the NSK knows about it, that there are investigations ongoing, but no further comment for now. Apparently no formal report/complaint was filed and he personally knows no further details either in his capacity as a director.

If Ichinojō really has done all he's said to have done, Kyūshū is going to be his last basho - I wonder how he will take the prospect of forcible retirement.

wonder if the wife/Minato were pressured not to come forward with a formal complaint? 

[Seiyashi 4,072]

18 minutes ago, Chartorenji said:

wonder if the wife/Minato were pressured not to come forward with a formal complaint? 

By who? I can see Minato trying to maintain bridges, but I wouldn't call that pressure, necessarily.

[Kaninoyama 1,711]

I wonder if keeping this all from the public eye had to do in part with the timing of Ichinojo just having won a yusho, and the NSK realizing that it would be the worst possible look if a newly crowned champ was immediately thereafter the subject of a domestic violence incident. 

[Seiyashi 4,072]

From what the news says, this has been slowly brewing over the course of a year, and maybe things have only just really come to a head. 

On mobile now so it's not convenient to share the link, but Herouth just tweeted another Nikkan article. The okamisan incident was when he got absolutely shitfaced at a bar - the okamisan came to bring him back and tried to help him up, but he shook her off and his arm hit her in the process - sounded accidental, or at least not deliberate, even though getting hit by a rikishi in any way can't be a joke. 

There's also apparently money trouble between Ichinojō and the shisho - seems like the shisho owes Ichinojō something, might be the cut from kenshō or prizes or something like that. 

To be fair to Ichinojō, it's looking less black than it did when the news first broke. There's no excuse for doing stupid things while drunk, but it's still a lesser degree of fault than doing it while in full possession of one's faculties, and he won't be the first rikishi to have the relationship with his shisho soured over ancillary matters either. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Kaninoyama 1,711]

44 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

From what the news says, this has been slowly brewing over the course of a year, and maybe things have only just really come to a head. 

On mobile now so it's not convenient to share the link, but Herouth just tweeted another Nikkan article. The okamisan incident was when he got absolutely shitfaced at a bar - the okamisan came to bring him back and tried to help him up, but he shook her off and his arm hit her in the process - sounded accidental, or at least not deliberate, even though getting hit by a rikishi in any way can't be a joke. 

There's also apparently money trouble between Ichinojō and the shisho - seems like the shisho owes Ichinojō something, might be the cut from kenshō or prizes or something like that. 

To be fair to Ichinojō, it's looking less black than it did when the news first broke. There's no excuse for doing stupid things while drunk, but it's still a lesser degree of fault than doing it while in full possession of one's faculties, and he won't be the first rikishi to have the relationship with his shisho soured over ancillary matters either. 

That explains quite a bit then. Drunken but not deliberate is far more a grey area than "he whacked her."

So maybe his exit from sumo is not imminent, and he just needs a new heya and some AA meetings. 

[Jakusotsu 5,864]

7 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

he just needs a new heya and some AA meetings

Both easier said than done.

[Seiyashi 4,072]

9 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

That explains quite a bit then. Drunken but not deliberate is far more a grey area than "he whacked her."

So maybe his exit from sumo is not imminent, and he just needs a new heya and some AA meetings. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/Ichiro_SUMO/status/1591210451463204864

According to Ichirō Sasaki, the NSK seems to take a lenient view too along the lines of compromise rather than expulsion. Definitely a lot grayer than it first sounded, especially since both sides are at fault. 

The money trouble seemed to have started about a year ago - did Ichinojō win a windfall in kenshō then? 

The article linked in the tweet also reminds us that Ichinojō naturalised under the family name of Minato - no idea if that is connected in any way to the current situation, but it certainly can't be helping. 

Incidentally, have heya ever been shut down for financial mismanagement?

Edited November 12, 2022 by Seiyashi

[sumojoann 1,262]

4 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

 

Incidentally, have heya ever been shut down for financial mismanagement?

Yes, Hanakago Beya under former Yokozuna Wajima's mismanagement.  The worst thing he did was to put up his kabu as collateral on a loan in connection with a failed chanko restaurant he owned.  Using his kabu in this manner was strictly forbidden.  He was heavily in debt.  Other Oyakata pressured him to resign from the Sumo Association.  Hanakago Beya eventually folded completely with all the remaining rikishi transferring to Hanaregoma Beya, an affiliated heya.  Here is an excerpt from wikipedia about what happened ---- (Note:  I included the second paragraph about Wajima's professional wrestling career because it helped him pay off his debts.  Surprisingly, to me at least, as a result, he was back on good terms with the Sumo Association).

Retirement from sumo

Following his retirement Wajima took over as oyakata, or head coach, of Hanakago stable in 1981, having married the eldest daughter of the previous stablemaster (former maegashira Onoumi) who had reached the mandatory retirement age for elders of 65.^[9] However, his time there as oyakata was controversial. He lacked leadership qualities and most unusually did not even live in the stable, preferring to commute.^[10] Hanakago declined to the point when it did not have any top-division wrestlers left. In 1982 his wife attempted suicide and he was demoted from his position as a judge as a result. The marriage eventually ended in divorce.^[10] In 1985 he was pressured by fellow oyakata to resign from the Sumo Association after it emerged that he was heavily in debt due to the failure of his chankonabe restaurant and had put up his share in the Association as collateral on a loan, a practice strictly forbidden.^[10] The stable folded completely with all its wrestlers transferring to the affiliated Hanaregoma stable.^[10][2]

Professional wrestling career

To pay off his debts, Wajima turned to pro wrestling. Shohei Baba, owner of All Japan Pro Wrestling, convinced him to join his promotion and train at their dojo.^[11] He debuted in 1986. Because of his status as a former yokozuna (the first since Kinichi Azumafuji to turn to pro wrestling), Wajima was pushed as a superstar, feuding with Stan Hansen over the PWF Heavyweight Championship. In the long run, however, accumulated injuries from his sumo years limited his potential as a professional wrestler, and he ended up retiring from the game altogether in 1988.^[1] His last recorded match was held December 16, as he and The Great Kabuki defeated Jerry Blackwell and Phil Hickerson. His wrestling career helped him with his debts, and soon he was in good terms with the Sumo Association.^[12]

Edited November 12, 2022 by sumojoann

[Seiyashi 4,072]

Thanks very much, @sumojoann.

More information from Tokyo Sports, which basically confirms Ichinojō has a drinking problem if you read between the lines:

https://www.tokyo-sports.co.jp/articles/-/244725

It quotes an unknown source close to the heya that claims that Ichinojō shouldn't have been able to drink so much - he had a chaperone from the koenkai who was supposed to be in charge of making sure he didn't drink to excess when he went out with heya sponsors etc.

To me, though, it doesn't logically follow that just because there was a procedure for when he went out with sponsors means he couldn't drink so much. It's not like other than training and personal ablutions, he only ever goes out with sponsors - what about ordering in beer? Going out to a nearby izakaya with a tsukebito? etcetc. And the fact that the koenkai/heya agreed that he needed a chaperone on some events does seem to confirm that Ichinojō can't really control himself if left to his own devices (there were apparently cases of overdrinking in 2014 when he was shinnyumaku), so I'm not sure this report is all that flattering to Ichinojō despite what looks like the source's best intentions.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Hankegami 438]

These preliminary reports are surely worrisome. What stucks me the most is that the "big thing" apparently dated back to December 2021, that is shortly after he acquired Japanese citizenship (September 2021) with an evident homage to his Oyakata by adopting his own surname. I wonder whether Ichinojo having acquired his citizenship exacerbated his relationship with the heya somehow. As Seiyashi has reported, however, it is apparently not an one-way breakdown but also Minato-oyakata was actively involved in some manner (money issues).

Part of the surprise however comes from this wholly new portrait of Ichinojo, especially his apparently uncontrollable drinking habit but also his reported unwillingness to join training at Minato stable. This adds up to his weight issues and his back issues (certainly existing, given his ample use of cupping on his back). I am frankly surprised he managed to remain in the joy all this time, not to mention his Nagoya yusho. Koorifuu above in this topic said it was likely a way to prove a point, but it's easier said than done. I still believe that some form of relief for his back given by his COVID-related kyujo remains involved in the equation, perhaps in addition to a moment of sobriety to prove a point indeed.

Now I am wary to see what's happening next. I am not sure that Futahaguro's case sticks. It was 1987, after all - as old as poor 'ole me -, not to mention that this time around the oyakata is not just a spectator. For sure, the NSK has not changed that much since then and is still long ways from being a beacon of transparency. Moreover, I have the general impression that the Japanese have a noticeable tendency to not wash their dirty linen in public, that is not to involve the authorities. I mean, being an alcoholic is ultimately a private issue (although it's true that thing change when your job is involved), but being an insolvent debtor - like Minato-oyakata is whispered to be - can be a felony. In different circumstances, a sportsman would have called his lawyer and that's it. But not in Japan and surely not in Ozumo.  

Anyway, the simple fact it took the NSK almost a year to come to an active investigation makes the entire affair unsettling. My impression is that not Minato nor Ichinojo wanted this case to come out (although I cannot see how they wanted to sort it out), but it reached the Old Crones anyway. Depending on how serious the matter is - especially in Minato-oyakata's case - them both could get the boot. In another sport, Ichinojo would have had right to some time off to reach out for a psychologist and a nutritionist, not to mention moving to another stable. But this is Ozumo. I have a bad feeling about this.

[Fashiritētā 171]

8 minutes ago, Hankegami said:

Ichinojo would have had right to some time off to reach out for a psychologist and a nutritionist, not to mention moving to another stable. But this is Ozumo. I have a bad feeling about this.

Unfortunately he actually needs that. The Romans took better care of their gladiators.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Fashiritētā

[egparis18 622]

Ichinojo is all of 29 years old.

He's the only wrestler in his beya who brings in money (including 9 kinboshi, which I think is the most of any sekitori now fighting). His family are herders and there's a century drought in Mongolia https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35983912  . I daresay he sends them money. They might be totally dependent on him. I heard that his father is ill. He's not in the best of health himself - especially his back. I can see when he's in pain and I'm sure others can too.

Hakuho saw fit to push him in the face, in public, on the dohyo, and a little while later Terunofuji  took it upon himself to do the same.

I reckon that's enough to drive anybody to drink.

 

[Asashosakari 18,948]

I kind of wonder if the reason the Kyokai only felt the need to shut down half the stable's rikishi for Covid back in May is hiding somewhere in this mess, too. That was an odd departure from protocol at the time, especially considering they were back to sidelining all of Tagonoura two months later.

[junsan 170]

Suggest the thread subject be changed to simply "The Ichinojo Scandal"?

[Kaninoyama 1,711]

2 hours ago, junsan said:

Suggest the thread subject be changed to simply "The Ichinojo Scandal"?

Seems more appropriate at this point in light of what we now know.

Done.

[junsan 170]

Sankyu!

[cyclonicleo 19]

This is really hard to hear. I've given Snorlax a hard time about his wavering form, but this would likely be the root cause. Alcoholism, caused by severe back pain and poor relations with his own stable, being disgraced on the dohyo, being denied winnings, having to support his family back in Mongolia, with a father who is in poor health....no wonder he is drinking to erase the pain. Not to mention that alcoholism is a big problem in Japan, along with stimulant (methamphetamine) use, no wonder the NSK wanted to keep it quiet.

Sadly, I can see Ichinojo being hung out to dry, unless the NSK wants to avoid further scandal by getting him into rehab, facilitating a move to a new heya, and forcing his current stable to pay up monies owed. Doubt that'll happen though.

[Kintamayama 44,633]

22 hours ago, Hankegami said:

Anyway, the simple fact it took the NSK almost a year to come to an active investigation makes the entire affair unsettling. My impression is that not Minato nor Ichinojo wanted this case to come out (although I cannot see how they wanted to sort it out), but it reached the Old Crones anyway. Depending on how serious the matter is - especially in Minato-oyakata's case - them both could get the boot. In another sport, Ichinojo would have had right to some time off to reach out for a psychologist and a nutritionist, not to mention moving to another stable. But this is Ozumo. I have a bad feeling about this.

Minato was the one letting the "old crones" know back in March, which sounds to me more like a "guys, help me out, I've totally lost control of the kid, help me before something really serious happens.." situation. This resulted in Ichinojou sending out a message to the oyakata that from here on all communications between them will be through a lawyer.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 44,633]

I suggest a chill. Nothing happened. The rikishi get drunk all the time. So do the Oyakata. Remember the Oyakata who was so drunk he fell asleep on the highway in his car? Remember a certain rijicho getting hammered and making indecent proposals to a waitress? Happens all the time, mostly away from the limelight.  Ichinojou didn't attack the okamisan- she went with some other guys to try to bring her boy home safely and quietly without causing any more problems in a bar. In the scuffle that ensued (he probably wanted to stay a bit longer) the tiny guy must have pushed her by mistake. There was no intentional attack, like in the Futahaguro case so the comparison is not correct. A dead drunk Asashouryuu once broke the glass at the entrance of his heya. Everyone tsk tsked and went on their way. On what grounds is Ichinojou to be suspended? On being a heavy drinker? If that's the case, the whole upper echelons of sumo should be suspended, leaving Hiro Morita talking to himself for a while. The Kyokai, as flummoxed as it is, usually does bring out the heavy stuff when needed. If this is all, then this is all. Now, if there are other things involved, including financial misconduct, well then that's a wholly different bag of nuts..

Edited November 29, 2022 by Kintamayama

[Hankegami 438]

13 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Minato was the one letting the "old crones" know back in March, which sounds to me more like a "guys, help me out, I've totally lost control of the kid, help me before something really serious happens.." situation. This resulted in Ichinojou sending out a message to the oyakata that from here on all communications between them will be through a lawyer.

Thanks, I missed this part of the story. Now I also understand why the lawyers came in.

3 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

I suggest a chill. Nothing happened. The rikishi get drunk all the time. So do the Oyakata. Remember the Oyakata who was so drunk he fell asleep on the highway in his car? Remember a certain rijicho getting hammered and making indecent proposals to a waitress? Happens all the time, mostly away from the limelight.  Ichinojou didn't attack the okamisan- she went with some other guys to try to bring her boy home safely and quietly without causing any more problems in a bar. In the scuffle that ensued (he probably wanted to stay a bit longer) the tiny guy must have pushed her by mistake. There was no intentional attack, like in the Futahaguro case so the comparison is not correct. A dead drunk Asashouryuu once broke the glass at the entrance of his heya. Everyone tsk tsked and went on their way. On what grounds is Ichinojou to be suspended? On being a heavy drinker? If that's the case, the whole upper echelons of sumo should be suspended, leaving Hiro Morita talking to himself for a while. The Kyokai, as flummoxed as it is, usually does bring out the heavy stuff when needed. If this is all, then this is all. Now, if there are other things involved, including financial misconduct, well then that's a wholly different back of nuts..

For sure, if they knew since March there is no high priority investigation undergoing. Perhaps they were just trying to broke a deal between Ichinojo and Minato when the news broke out? At this point, my question is how are they going to joust this affair now that they have the press on their heels.

[Seiyashi 4,072]

It's likely going to slow burn for a while. It's not a clear cut case of violence that needs disciplining, it's a problem of relationships which can't be made to go away by fiat. It seems like almost all sides understand that, at least for now - other than this bit about Ichinojō lawyering up, which might only be a problem between him and the oyakata and not him vs the NSK.

[sumojoann 1,262]

1 minute ago, Seiyashi said:

It's likely going to slow burn for a while. It's not a clear cut case of violence that needs disciplining, it's a problem of relationships which can't be made to go away by fiat. It seems like almost all sides understand that, at least for now - other than this bit about Ichinojō lawyering up, which might only be a problem between him and the oyakata and not him vs the NSK.

I agree.  If it were a clear cut case of violence, Ichinojo would have been forced to go kyujo for the Kyushu basho.

[Kintamayama 44,633]

More details. The heya is not asking to get rid of Ichinojou. On the contrary, the oyakata is seeking ways for reconciliation. The drinking started around 2017, after which the Oyakata forbade him to go out socially for a year. But two - three weeks after the ban was lifted , he started drinking again and returning home in the early morning hours and missing training. "I can't control myself, so please continue treating me strictly," he is said to have said back then. He went out with friends, causing some problems, at which point the okamisan started accompanying him to keep an eye on him. There were times he didn't drink, but when he started, he couldn't stop. When drunk, he used to hit the okamisan and squeeze her hands so tightly bruises could be seen. He threw things at her once as well. When he didn't go out, he would down a whole case of beer, and drink 1-2 bottles of whiskey at the heya. The okamisan was pushed to the floor at times, it is being said. He seems to acknowledge he has a drinking problem but would not cooperate with the Oyakata in seeking help from the Kyokai or seeking any sort of medical treatment. But what brought on the drinking? "I was not allowed to live by myself till now and that is the main reason.. If I can live alone, I won't drink," he explained back then. So last December, Minato Oyakata let him live alone, on condition he stopped drinking. Ichinojou agreed, but soon went back on his promise and started drinking again.

One day this February, he didn't show up for keiko. When asked why, he answered that he was so plastered he couldn't wake up. The next day the Oyakata got ready to have a talk with him, but Ichinojou sent him a note saying he will talk to him only through a lawyer. That's when Minato Oyakata gave up and went to the Kyokai for help. He then turned to Ichinojou's friends and discussed with them ways to mend this in case the addiction got worse, and is carefully considering how to deal with this in the future. "He has been talking to the Kyokai for more than half a year. We don't want to judge Ichinojou. We want him to use this as an opportunity to take a good look at himself," said people close to the heya.

[Katooshu 3,174]

"When drunk, he used to hit the okamisan and squeeze her hands so tightly bruises could be seen. He threw things at her once as well. When he didn't go out, he would down a whole case of beer, and drink 1-2 bottles of whiskey at the heya. The okamisan was pushed to the floor at times"

^

The initial reports sounded really bad, then it seemed like things may have been overblown......but those details above makes it seem worse again if true. From those it sounds like he has a habit of intentionally getting physical with her. Accidentally pushing someone off with too much force is one thing, but being purposefully aggressive and violent over and over is another. Probably a good thing he's not living at the heya now.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Katooshu