Akinomaki

Hatsu 2023 discussion (results)

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Massive pity about Hōshōryū's injury. The nirame-ai before it was a nice rarity, but unfortunately Hōshōryū's ankle gave out on him before he could fully complete the throw, and he collapsed.

Takakeishō will be happy, though, since that's the arguably most dangerous contender out of the arasoi if not the basho entirely. And he capitalised with a dominant return to oshi form to go uncontested with 1 loss. Barring anything unforeseen, the yūshō should be his.

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30 minutes ago, dingo said:

I was getting on Hoshoryuu's case yesterday for that HNH on Satonofuji,

He assaulted the bow-twirler??

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Akua actually getting his first win of the basho with the kakenage was nice. Hopefully he kakenage's his way back up to makuuchi (eventually).

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1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

He assaulted the bow-twirler??

Serves me right for writing absentmindedly :-D

But since we're talking about Hoshoryuu, I wouldn't be surprised.. 

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I'm not a Takakeisho fan, but I'm expecting him to take the Yusho. I think any Yusho will also earn him the rope.

On Shodai: It'd be just like him to get 6 losses to ensure a non-promotion and then run the table.

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15 minutes ago, Sakura said:

I'm not a Takakeisho fan, but I'm expecting him to take the Yusho. I think any Yusho will also earn him the rope.

That was what I said in the next Yokozuna thread. I think he gets promoted with a 12-3 yusho. Others thought it would take a 14-1 or 13-2 record.  I can’t see anyone stopping him and he doesn’t seem to have any mental demons that might cause him to choke. I am also not a fan but he deserves the promotion if he wins this tournament. 

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I never wish ill on anyone but it's hard not to root against Hoshoryu for me, the guy is so smug and does crap like what he did vs Waka last night that just makes me want to root against him, he is so good at being the heel and paired with an incredible skill set and fighting spirit, the guy is must watch sumo.

Still, I am watching to see him lose, not win, and last night, especially after his super extended stare-down, I was close to cheering out loud when Waka beat him.

But being injured is another thing, I hope he is fine, I think he'll be an ozeki sooner or later, he is simply very, very good, maybe even a really strong Yokozuna in the future and with that attitude he will always have people wanting to watch him compete, rooting for or against.

 

As for Takakeisho, it's hard not to like him, he defies all ods and is close to the rope with a one-dimensional style, but I believe he does not deserve it if he wins 13-2, there is no yokozuna in this tournament. If he were to win 14-1/15-1 then maybe? But still. With Keisho for me, it is only a matter of time before there's an injury or something that brings back the inconsistent rikishi we are used to, so what I am afraid of is that they give him the belt then almost instantly we go back to that version of keisho and he would be forced to retire early.

 

Part of me doesn't want him to get it for that reason, not yet.

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10 minutes ago, Kishinoyama said:

That was what I said in the next Yokozuna thread. I think he gets promoted with a 12-3 yusho. Others thought it would take a 14-1 or 13-2 record.  I can’t see anyone stopping him and he doesn’t seem to have any mental demons that might cause him to choke. I am also not a fan but he deserves the promotion if he wins this tournament. 

Takakeisho's greatest strength, in my opinion, is his self-confidence. It may have helped propel him further than he might have gone. I don't think he'd have made Ozeki if he were born 10 years earlier. However, he's here now and he's clearly the most consistent performer at the top of the banzuke, and that's all that matters.

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6 minutes ago, Kuhne said:

But still. With Keisho for me, it is only a matter of time before there's an injury or something that brings back the inconsistent rikishi we are used to, so what I am afraid of is that they give him the belt then almost instantly we go back to that version of keisho and he would be forced to retire early.

If they give him the rope, he'll be able to sit out and recover rather than trying to KK while injured.

For me, there are two major factors in the YDC and NSK being somewhat lenient towards Takakeisho: he is Japanese, and Terunofuji's longevity is a massive question mark.

I just can't see them turning their collective nose up at any yusho following a yusho equivalent.

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3 hours ago, dingo said:

Serves me right for writing absentmindedly :-D

But since we're talking about Hoshoryuu, I wouldn't be surprised.. 

Has he actually committed any offense (by sumo standards)? On-dohyo attitude is one thing but I don't think I have heard something like that. Disclaimer: I have a bad memory :-D

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Hosh has always been affable and well behaved off the dohyo from what I've seen and heard. 

As for Takakeisho, he's putting in the results for promotion, but the mental image of yokozuna battle hamster is still a bit hard to grasp (Laughing...)

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1 hour ago, hakutorizakura said:

Has he actually committed any offense (by sumo standards)? On-dohyo attitude is one thing but I don't think I have heard something like that. Disclaimer: I have a bad memory :-D

Not that I know of, but I haven't followed him closely. I was just joking based on his bad mf attitude. 

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11 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

As for Takakeisho, he's putting in the results for promotion, but the mental image of yokozuna battle hamster is still a bit hard to grasp (Laughing...)

I would absolutely LOVE it if he could pull it off. Since I don't want to jinx him I'm shutting up now :-P

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25 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Ozeki JY followed by Y post-Futahaguro: 2 promotions in 9 occurrences. All promotions during this time were with 26 or more wins over the two basho.

Takakeisho has a doten-yusho from last basho, which is different. From your link there's two cases of doten followed by yusho, and just one of them (1997 Wakanohana with a 11-4 doten) did not result in a promotion. 

Edit: stupid autocorrect 

Edited by dingo
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8 hours ago, dingo said:

Ura gently fanning down stumbling Nishikifuji is the funniest thing I've seen this basho.

I was like, is he using magic to keep him off balance and blow him down!? That was pretty funny, Ura is a nut and I always root for him. 

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According to the oyakata, Hoshoryu received treatment at the kokugikan infirmary and will decide tomorrow if he'll go on, according to the condition of his left foot. He twisted the ankle while trying a kotenage throw, getting a sukuinage in return. o

Hakkaku commented that it's dangerous to do a throw while going back, it leads to injury: "Something to learn". Hoshoryu left without giving an interview o

Edited by Akinomaki

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10 hours ago, dingo said:

Ura gently fanning down stumbling Nishikifuji is the funniest thing I've seen this basho. Even Ura himself was smiling when he squatted down as the Victor. 

 

1 hour ago, 808morgan said:

I was like, is he using magic to keep him off balance and blow him down!? That was pretty funny, Ura is a nut and I always root for him. 

 

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11 hours ago, dingo said:

I was getting on Hoshoryuu's case yesterday for that HNH on Satonofuji, but I couldn't help but enjoy Midorifuji's henka on Abi. With his wrestling style Abi has got to expect it time to time.

And Shodai... a bit late to the party, isn't he? 

Shodai will always have the ability to pull a spoiler bout out of his derriere from time to time. Just lacks the consistency or the fire to do it all the time. 

As for Abi, I don't think he would ever take getting henka'd personally. He's more the type to give his opponent a high five backstage and say "You got me good that time!"

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12 hours ago, dingo said:

I've been meaning to comment on Mitakeumi for a few days. This basho usually his first five seconds seem like the old Mitakeumi -- good tachiai, driving the opponent back and almost out. Yet he always runs out of steam at the crucial moment and loses soon after. Seems like he is getting a bit better, but still far away from the sumo that took him to ozeki. Today was a bit better though, he managed to follow thorough on Meisei.

 

Yep, he looks completely gassed out after every bout and just looks tired in general. Post-covid fatigue? It has been mentioned he has had long covid symptoms. I have had after effects for well over six months since I had it and I'm not a top athlete having to compete against the very best. I wonder how many rikishi have been impacted this way. There are a number who appear to have fallen off a cliff in the past couple of years which may be the result of this.

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On Takakeisho, I’m not fully convinced a 12-3 would be enough for everyone in the Kyokai, but I think he’d still have sufficient support to get the nod. 13-2 or above will do it for sure. He has two yusho to his name already, both part of Y>JY or JY>Y combinations, so not like he’s a new arrival in sanyaku making his first attempt. He’s also been in very solid Ozeki form recently. His previous three records are 11-5, 10-5 and 12-3D. He already has a better-than-Kisenosato-like case with 2 x Y, 3 x D and 5 x JY. Add a third Y and it should be a straightforward ‘yes’.

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44 minutes ago, Morty said:

Yep, he looks completely gassed out after every bout and just looks tired in general. Post-covid fatigue? It has been mentioned he has had long covid symptoms. I have had after effects for well over six months since I had it and I'm not a top athlete having to compete against the very best. I wonder how many rikishi have been impacted this way. There are a number who appear to have fallen off a cliff in the past couple of years which may be the result of this.

My impression from this basho is that he is OK to move forward in a straight line. As soon as he is pushed back, has to move sideways or rotate his body, he loses most of his power. Maybe some type of injury that impacts that.

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1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

On Takakeisho, I’m not fully convinced a 12-3 would be enough for everyone in the Kyokai, but I think he’d still have sufficient support to get the nod. 13-2 or above will do it for sure.

The last yokozuna promotion after 24 or fewer wins over 2 basho was in 1969. For 25, you have to go back to 1987, pre-Futahaguro. With 12-3, it would be the softest promotion in over half a century; 13-2 would be a little more defensible but would still harken back to an era with a different standard.

Edited by Reonito

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I'm not so fond of Takakeisho's sumo so I'd grumble a bit if he took the rope, but on the flip side I really want to see the first banzuke in sumo history without a true ozeki on it.

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2 hours ago, Reonito said:

The last yokozuna promotion after 24 or fewer wins over 2 basho was in 1969. For 25, you have to go back to 1987, pre-Futahaguro. With 12-3, it would be the softest promotion in over half a century; 13-2 would be a little more defensible but would still harken back to an era with a different standard.

We have only two historical precedents of an Ozeki going 12-3 twice in a row with a Y>JY/D or JY/D>Y sequence, and they were both in 1956 and actually the same guy doing it twice over three basho: Wakanohana between March and September. (Fewer tournaments in those days as this was pre-1958 reforms.) For D>Y or Y>D specifically, same as Takakeisho, there is only the one precedent.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=3&form1_rank=O&form1_wins=12&form1_y=on&form1_yd=on&form1_jy=on&form2_rank=O&form2_wins=12&form2_y=on&form2_yd=on&form2_jy=on

Also, re: soft promotion. That ignores all the other context about his previous 2 yusho and 8 jun-yusho, of which 3 were dotens. He’s not starting from nothing.

Edited by Eikokurai
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