Haru 2023 discussion (results)

[Djihi 33]

This is Daieishou basho! 

[Octofuji 357]

The higher ranked wrestler won in all the joi matches today. It must be a while since that happened.

[Katooshu 3,251]

12 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

It feels like Hoshoryu is going to sneak up from behind and steal this basho. 

What makes you feel that way? He's doing well, but to me he doesn't look in a good position to win considering he's 3 behind the unbeaten leader (who dominates him 6-1 H2H), 2 behind the nearest pursuer, and still behind 3 more rikishi after that. Kiribayama is looking hot at 6-3 too and will be a threat to knock him further off the pace. 

Doesn't really give me the feeling of a basho where the leaders are crumbling and someone with early losses is sneaking back into it, though of course 6 more days await.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Katooshu

[Andreas21 184]

As many times before, I reckon the Torikumi is badly done.

I mean, Midorifuji is in form and shows very good Sumo. But the 9:0 is partly an artifact that they fail to react to results. The highest opponent was M4 - and that as M5.

As can be seen here they stick too much to the blocks. This way, hiramaku yusho and paternoster movements are manufactured.

Besides Midorifuji who finally gets Sanyaku opponents, there are further useless, unproductive pairings.

What is the basis for the 10th day paring S1e Wakatakakage - M5e Kotoshoho 1:8 ? Add injujry to insult for poor Kotoshoho! I mean, he's too high for his current ability. But is his form that bad? The Torikumi makers could have placed an M10/M11 opponent to find out ...

What is the objective of Kinbozan M14e 6:3 - Takayasu M7w 7:2 ? We know that Takayasu is fresh back from an injury which pulled him down in the rankings. Before that he stacked two Jun Yusho, one from M1. The Torikumi makers surely want to ignore this, probably to objectivity. Do they want to create another Hiramaku Yusho? I mean, Kinbozan is doing very well in his Makuuchi debut. But at 6:3 not too well ! It's not that a big threat of a Tokushoyu-like Yusho, right?

And it's very important that they stick to the Jo-i block by paring Ryuden M2w 1:8 - Tamawashi M1 (1:8 but recent Yusho winner), when it's damn obvious Ryuden is placed too high. Only to finally omit one of the intra-Sekiwake parings which they kept to the last day only to then decide to redirect it to a Hiramaku contender which they failed to address earlier. Then it is not so important to fill the Jo-i block completely.

This is so foreseeable stupid. Part of the problem is, and I mentioned it before, that they stick to the stupid tradition to announce the Torikumi of the next day before current bouts are finished.

[hakutorizakura 629]

On 18/03/2023 at 23:00, Reonito said:

You'd certainly have to go back to young Chiyonofuji to find a lighter yusho winner, should Midori somehow pull this off.

But Chiyonofuji was a 180+ cm guy, no? He's not at all small, though could be seen as 'light'. I guess there are some other 'lightweight' yusho winners too after him, like Kotonishiki.

Midori is both short and light, so it's quite amazing how he's doing so far.

[Andreas21 184]

4 minutes ago, hakutorizakura said:

But Chiyonofuji was a 180+ cm guy, no? He's not at all small, though could be seen as 'light'. I guess there are some other 'lightweight' yusho winners too after him, like Kotonishiki.

Midori is both short and light, so it's quite amazing how he's doing so far.

How about Wakahanada at Haru 1993? Was pretty light at the time.

[hakutorizakura 629]

On 19/03/2023 at 19:48, ouflak said:

Yes, I've got the replay frozen on the part where Hiradoumi's foot has completely turned over, sliding along the surface, and Takayasu's foot is still about an inch-and-a-half above on the bails. I know they can't reverse the call at this point. But do they review this stuff later and atleast publicly acknowledge these kind of errors?

 

 

If I remember correctly there is a story about a yokozuna who was declared the loser in a controversial monoii, and went through it with great hinkaku as expected from a yok. But then the press made some noise and pointed out that he should actually be declared the winner (which he agreed in an interview but had to proceed as it was) with clear evidence (photo/video maybe). Someone from the NSK finally made a comment which confirms that, but since it's already in the books then the recorded outcome was not changed.

 

Or I'm just misremembering, don't quote me on this, I'm a dory.

[Kamitsuumi 401]

19 minutes ago, hakutorizakura said:

 

If I remember correctly there is a story about a yokozuna who was declared the loser in a controversial monoii, and went through it with great hinkaku as expected from a yok. But then the press made some noise and pointed out that he should actually be declared the winner (which he agreed in an interview but had to proceed as it was) with clear evidence (photo/video maybe). Someone from the NSK finally made a comment which confirms that, but since it's already in the books then the recorded outcome was not changed.

  

Or I'm just misremembering, don't quote me on this, I'm a dory.

That's the match that ended Taiho's 45-match streak.

[ouflak 5]

20 minutes ago, hakutorizakura said:

 

If I remember correctly there is a story about a yokozuna who was declared the loser in a controversial monoii, and went through it with great hinkaku as expected from a yok. But then the press made some noise and pointed out that he should actually be declared the winner (which he agreed in an interview but had to proceed as it was) with clear evidence (photo/video maybe). Someone from the NSK finally made a comment which confirms that, but since it's already in the books then the recorded outcome was not changed.

 

Or I'm just misremembering,

Just now, Kamitsuumi said:

That's the match that ended Taiho's 45-match streak.

 

If I'm not mistaken, it was also the incident that instigated the review process becoming a part of sumo. Was it the following year?

[Kaninoyama 1,797]

2 hours ago, Katooshu said:

What makes you feel that way? He's doing well, but to me he doesn't look in a good position to win considering he's 3 behind the unbeaten leader (who dominates him 6-1 H2H), 2 behind the nearest pursuer, and still behind 3 more rikishi after that. Kiribayama is looking hot at 6-3 too and will be a threat to knock him further off the pace. 

Doesn't really give me the feeling of a basho where the leaders are crumbling and someone with early losses is sneaking back into it, though of course 6 more days await.

Well the prediction is obviously a bit of a stretch to be sure. But 12-3 is easily in play for the yusho. Huge fan of Midorifuji and would love to see him win but it's unlikely he's going to run the tables. He's bound to fall off his current pace at some point as the pressure and competition builds.

Daieisho's been there and done it before so he's probably the favorite as things stand. 

Then we have the likes of Kotonowaka, Takayasu, and Endo at 7-2. Unlikely that these three don't drop at least one more bout before it's all said and done. 

Just feels like Hoshoryu's regained his form after a shaky start and is most likely to run the tables and play spoiler to the remaining contenders. 

But however it all shakes out, it's building toward an interesting last few days and anything can happen. 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Kaninoyama

[bettega 431]

Still a borin' basho. Very few good bouts

[Benevolance 2,501]

Midorifuji isn't normally this good, is he? I've ignored him in the past, but he's looked really good in all of his matches. Is this a one off? A lucky basho? Do we think he's destined for greatness, inching ahead of Gagamaru to be the next yokozuna hopeful? 

[ryafuji 815]

2 hours ago, ouflak said:

If I'm not mistaken, it was also the incident that instigated the review process becoming a part of sumo. Was it the following year?

They brought it in the following tournament (May 1969). I think plans to use video replays were already in the works, but that infamous decision provided the final impetus. 

[Kaninoyama 1,797]

49 minutes ago, Benevolance said:

Midorifuji isn't normally this good, is he? I've ignored him in the past, but he's looked really good in all of his matches. Is this a one off? A lucky basho? Do we think he's destined for greatness, inching ahead of Gagamaru to be the next yokozuna hopeful? 

He IS very good. Not at all a fluke. But he's also very small in sekitori terms, which usually limits how he and similarly small-statured rikishi can ultimately climb up the sumo ladder. A taste of sanyaku and regular visits to joi would be a respectable career for Midorifuji. If he can somehow snag a yusho in Osaka with a depleted field,  that would be a career-maker for him. 

[Chartorenji 237]

2 hours ago, bettega said:

Still a borin' basho. Very few good bouts

might be better next time around when Kiribayama is on a full Ozeki run (if he gets the 9 or so wins he is expecting) 

[Seiyashi 4,098]

Speaking of Kiribayama:

Is he sponsored by Ferrari or something?

[Yamanashi 3,866]

5 hours ago, hakutorizakura said:

but since it's already in the books then the recorded outcome was not changed.

The consecutive-win angle notwithstanding, how could they change the "recorded outcome"?  (This would apply in any sport.)  Would they announce on day 10 that there was a judging error on day 5 (now that we look more carefully, his big toe was out), and so they will take away a win for one and give it to the other?  I'm interested to know what people's reactions are to this scenario.

[Sumo Spiffy 568]

1 hour ago, Kaninoyama said:

He IS very good. Not at all a fluke. But he's also very small in sekitori terms, which usually limits how he and similarly small-statured rikishi can ultimately climb up the sumo ladder. A taste of sanyaku and regular visits to joi would be a respectable career for Midorifuji. If he can somehow snag a yusho in Osaka with a depleted field,  that would be a career-maker for him. 

No disrespect to past Midori, but he's showing a lot more game this time around. It may be that he's simply been a bit overwhelmed by joi-level competition the past handful of tournaments, and it took sliding back to just outside that bracket for him to really put it to work, but the dude is taking forearm shivers straight to the dome and just driving guys out. The first part of that isn't so surprising considering his willingness to slapfight with Brawlerkeisho, but physical domination like he's shown this time around in multiple fights? This isn't something we've seen from him, not to this degree.

Ura showed a good gameplan as a fast guy with enough size to lock Midori up and push him around with the mobility to not get outrun. He lost when he hopped—Midori looked like he was waiting for it. With that in mind, Tobizaru has a really good chance to give him his first loss, but even if that happens, he can finish strong if it doesn't pop whatever bubble of confidence/invincibility he's built up.

[hakutorizakura 629]

2 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

The consecutive-win angle notwithstanding, how could they change the "recorded outcome"?  (This would apply in any sport.)  Would they announce on day 10 that there was a judging error on day 5 (now that we look more carefully, his big toe was out), and so they will take away a win for one and give it to the other?  I'm interested to know what people's reactions are to this scenario.

That would mean editing their excel file, simple.

But if done much later, they would have written much more in their word document and changing something would mess it up badly. Disaster. Nonono, let's just leave it like that. 

[Hakuryuho 335]

What an exciting day of Sumo.

The changing of the guard is in full effect, out of the 7 junior san'yaku only Tobizaru has crossed the 30-year threshold,
and he, together with Wakatakakage, is the only one with a negative score at the moment.

Daieisho and Kotonowaka have achieved more wins than losses on Day 10 already with Hoshoryu, Wakamotoharu and Kiribayama knocking on kachikoshi's door with 7 wins each.

I was very doubtful about the future of ozumo in the last few years, especially after Hakuho vacated the throne to an already beaten up Terunofuji, 
but if this trend continues it does look rather auspicious for ozumo.

Can't wait to watch the current crop of junior san'yaku blossom further and for the other hopes a la Ochiai, Kinbozan, etc. to begin their ascend to whatever heights they are destined to reach.

[RabidJohn 1,795]

I believe that's the first time I've ever seen a waridashi. Give him a gino-sho already!

[Akinomaki 40,622]

31 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I believe that's the first time I've ever seen a waridashi. Give him a gino-sho already!

After 11 years again o

- one for Nikkan's kimarite watch, most pics of the day will be for that bout

Edit: last time (in makuuchi) Kyushu 2012 by Kisenosato

Edited March 21, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Akinomaki 40,622]

I see I forgot to send this one  - now that he lost again, next goal: 9 wins like the shisho as new juryo

Ochiai has reached another goal: he, the designated  Reiwa monster, has surpassed the Heisei monster Miyabiyama, who was the fastest among the other 3 who reached juryo without a loss (+Wajima&Musoyama): kachikoshi as new juryo on day 9, Miyabiyama got it on day 10. http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2023/03/20/kiji/20230320s00005000527000c.html

[Akinomaki 40,622]

34 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

After 11 years again o

- one for Nikkan's kimarite watch, most pics of the day will be for that bout

Edit: last time (in makuuchi) Kyushu 2012 by Kisenosato

3rd appearance in a row for Midorifuji in the kimarite watch - the first he lost though o

- last basho uchimuso, Kyushu kawazugake'd by Hoshoryu - and he is shown with a juryo bout for zubuneri

Edited March 21, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Yarimotsu 585]

Last rikishi to use a waridashi to go 10-0?

Futabayama. 

 

Coincidence?