Making a comprehensive list of sumo terminology

[Sumo Spiffy 579]

17 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Your reference to alphabetical makes me think you've already gone to the glossary on this forum, which is excellent if a bit dated. 

I'd also suggest that if possible, try not to have it in video form, or at least not only in video form. Firstly, it's not very searchable, and second, someone needs to guess at your categorisation if they want to look it up. Maybe something like a GSheets that can be filtered or rearranged at the users' will for people to head to after they see your video?

I have not! I didn't know there was one. I just googled "sumo terminology" and similar. 

...where is it? FOUND IT

As for videos... I mean, I have a YouTube channel for this. They're gonna be videos.  But they'll have timestamps and chapters, so they should be quite a bit more searchable than ones where you just have to guess where on the timeline the thing you're looking for is. If I put it up in another form, it would probably be a basic webpage of some sort.

19 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

nokotta on average 10 times a bout 

Is "nokotta" what the gyoji is saying when he's clearly repeating the same thing several times in succession but I can't tell what it is? It happens all the time, not necessarily when they're close to the rope, so maybe that's not the word, but whatever the word or phrase is, it definitely needs to be here.

7 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

I would have said "te wo tsuite" varies in importance from irrelevant to crucial.

Hand contact with the dohyo is supposed to occur before the tachi-ai, but as anyone who has watched sumo for any time knows, there is no predicting how this rule will be applied from basho to basho, or even from bout to bout.

I'd have put te wo tsuite, hakke yoi, nokkota and shobu ari all in the same category, as they're all things the gyoji say (or shout/scream) during a bout.

As we're seeing in this thread, there are lots of things which are said at some point; I'm trying to focus on what's said most commonly, ie. what's most likely to lead someone to ask, "What's he/they saying?" I can't make out the specific words most of the time until I know what words are being said, so whatever terms fit this definition and when or how often they're used will be very helpful. I think there's a certain assumption by a lot of people that if you're here, you probably know what's being said; I'm learning, and I know a lot more than I did a year ago, but I'm also googling a lot of what's being suggested here because I have no idea what it is.

13 hours ago, sumojoann said:

I think the following should be moved to "ESSENTIAL" ----

1) Kensho --- The first thing I noticed from watching sumo which drove me to Google it, which ultimately sucked me down the rabbit hole of Ozumo.  (Some friends thought people were placing bets on the bouts!)

2) Gunbai --- Lots of questions about the gunbai from friends!  A shopkeeper in Tokyo once teasingly told me that the referee used the gunbai to spank the wrestlers when they were bad!

3) Nokotta --- Everyone wants to know what he's saying and why.  More important than "Te wo suite" (imo).

4) Sagari --- Lot of questions about what they are & their purpose.

5) Shiko --- This image is so associated with sumo by people all over the world, even those who know nothing else about sumo.

6) Shimpan --- My husband called them "The Death Squad" before he understood the correct term!

7) Yobidashi --- They are so visible, there are so many of them, they do so many different things and their clothing is so "different".  I get a lot of questions about them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the "USEFUL" category, there should be "Gunbaidori" in addition to "Sashi-chigae" that you've already listed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Should "KADOBAN" be moved to "ESSENTIAL"?  Nowadays it's used during EVERY basho, it seems!

The reason none of those terms are in "essential" is because, with the possible exception of "nokotta" (which I'm more than willing to change), it's all helpful but none of it really impacts understanding the sport when it's going on in front of you. Maaaaaaaybe "shimpan", but I have to think about that some more—the gyoji is front and center in every match, but the shimpan only take center stage during a mono-ii.

To think of it another way: if I want to give a decent definition and not quick-hit everything, I probably need to make a video for essentials, then a video for useful, etc. Someone who doesn't know what "kensho" is still sees prizes; someone who doesn't know "gunbai" still understands the use of the fan; and so on. This is to prevent the "essentials" from becoming too long. Right now, I'm trying to limit it to who and what is in the spotlight during a match, and the things someone is likely to hear during a broadcast (ie. ranks).

Also, I've already shifted things around and I'm sure I'll do it plenty more, so I'm open to all arguments for changes. I may not go make all the suggested changes, but that doesn't mean I'm not open to them.

As for "kadoban"... I really did consider it for "essential" for exactly that reason. But "useful" seems better.

9 hours ago, sumojoann said:

Also under "FUN", I would add the various training exercises (you've already listed "Butsukari").  I would add "Suriashi", "Matawari", "Teppo" and I'm sure there are others.  (I would remove "Teppo" from "SIDE/OTHER").

It would help to know how prominent/crucial certain training exercises are to the rikishi. Shiko, of course, is the main and best-known sumo exercise. Butsukari, in my understanding, would be #2, because it seems to be the thing that gets a lot of attention when they do public workouts between bashos. (I freely admit this could be because Chris Sumo likes putting them in his videos. But it does seem like a huge part of the training.) This is why I currently have shiko as useful knowledge and butsukari as fun knowledge. Everything else seems like more of the general workout grind that wrestlers go through, but I don't know that life. So, if anything is as crucial as shiko/butsukari, or maybe a few that are a bit less noteworthy but still really important compared to everything else they do to prepare, I could include those. Mainly, I want to properly represent what they do while not spending an excessive amount of time talking about their exercise regimen.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Sumo Spiffy

[Akinomaki 40,753]

33 minutes ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

Is "nokotta" what the gyoji is saying when he's clearly repeating the same thing several times in succession but I can't tell what it is? It happens all the time, not necessarily when they're close to the rope, so maybe that's not the word, but whatever the word or phrase is, it definitely needs to be here.

Nokottaⁿ means "they remained", used when they are in action, in a pause again hakke-yoi and when it's not nokkatta any more, shobu ari. It is what they are supposed to say, but one in the lower ranks used to say "humpta humpta" instead - he advanced in rank and he gradually gets closer to nokotta - it sounds just as fuzzy as te wo tsuite with most gyoji, but they don't pronounce anyway, they chant, especially higashi and nishi with the shikona.

They should use kamaete instead of te wo tsuite, that is just a modern invention for the stubborn policy of the NSK to have a "proper" tachiai.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Kintamayama 45,495]

The categorization is up yo you:

tsuyuharai

tachimochi.

tokudawara

mizu-iri

kanreki dohyo-iri

Yokozuna dohyo-iri

Sanban-geiko

kyokai go-aisatsu

sanyaku soroibumi

yumitorishiki

mitsu-zoroi

manin onrei

senpai

kohai

hinkaku

morozashi

mae-mitsu

All essential in my mind - some more, some else, most used a lot by the English commentators.-all inherent part of this world.

[Yamanashi 3,903]

1 hour ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

Right now, I'm trying to limit it to who and what is in the spotlight during a match, and the things someone is likely to hear during a broadcast (ie. ranks).

This is the right approach, I think.  The first barrier to understanding Sumo is Japanese (Nihongo), – a language isolate with ~no loan words (well, not in sumo), three writing systems, and idiomatic pronunciation.  To a beginner, the bout might as well be between two Estruscans.  The rikishi, the gyoji, the dohyo, the particular kimarite used by the winner -- that's your first video.  Then you expand from there: what other winning techniques are there?  What's that thing the gyoji is holding? What is the ring made out of?  What's the dohyo made out of?  [NHK's Sumopedia does a good job of explaining this stuff.]

IMHO, you should set an upper limit on the # of terms introduced each video, and stick to it.

[Jomangor 29]

15 hours ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

I have not! I didn't know there was one. I just googled "sumo terminology" and similar. 

...where is it? FOUND IT

 

Just for reference, here's the link. The Wikiwand Glossary of terms isn't as complete, but it does list the words in Japanese, which might be helpful in other ways.

[Old Shatterhand is dead 29]

On 07/04/2023 at 23:02, Benihana said:

To this day, it always sounds "Yoshite" to me.

Especially when Konosuke says it.

[Tigerboy1966 1,472]

On 07/04/2023 at 22:02, Benihana said:

PUT YER DANG HANDS DOWN!

To this day, it always sounds "Yoshite" to me.

For me it always sounds like "No cheating!"