Natsu 2023 discussion (results)

[dingo 1,294]

1 hour ago, Koorifuu said:

Should we really trust pre-ozeki results? Most people expected Mitakeumi to have a lengthy stay, based on his years-long consistency at delivering ozeki results.

For the five years between his komusubi and ozeki debuts, his results would've seen him remain ozeki throughout (with a single ozekiwake basho in Haru 2020), all of them fighting everyone from the top.

And yet, it all unraveled spectacularly for him almost immediately after he finally hammered that nail in. I wouldn't rule Daieisho being the complete opposite.

Mitakeumi got injured and he wasn't really the same after that. I think we still don't know how will that injury healed in the end. 

I'm not by any means trying to say that Daieisho shouldn't be promoted based on his past performance. On the contrary, as soon as he gets 33 wins I think he should be promoted. But I was just wondering if he'll be able to stay at Ozeki for any reasonable length of time. We've seen too many short-stay Ozeki recently imo and the rank has turned into a bit of a revolving door. 

[Reonito 1,518]

10 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

The Ukrainian lion is 3 wins away from sekitorihood. Interesting.

At Ms2w, promotion with a 4-3 record is far from a given.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Reonito

[#1HENKAFAN 40]

It's the makushita joi so nobody would be surprised if he doesn't manage it but Shishi held up well in his first match at least. There's much to be interested in there with Shishi, Kawazoe, and Shiden. Hopefully they can all get kachi koshi so we can see them in Juryo next basho.

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

2 hours ago, dingo said:

We've seen too many short-stay Ozeki recently imo and the rank has turned into a bit of a revolving door. 

There are 2 types of ozeki promotion. Type B is the one where the wrestler thinks "I made it, top of the mountain!" and knows he has achieved everything he set out to do. Type A thinks "Next step".  We have had a lot of Type B's in the last few years, but the only obvious Type A's have been Terunofuji and Takakeisho. Granted, Takakeisho hasn't made yokozuna and maybe never will, but you sense that he has never been satisfied with ozeki. Daieisho would be a Type B (and there's nothing wrong with that): Kiribayama and Hoshoryu would, I hope, be Type A's. I will refrain from making any comments on Wakamotoharu as I once predicted that he would be lucky to spend more than two tournaments in maku'uchi.

[Morty 1,505]

Those two torinaoshi provided spectacular outcomes for the spectators, with the redo bouts being way more gripping than the originals. More than two for the price of one.

[Godango 1,014]

13 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

- VERY strong start for the three ozeki suitors. Six dominant wins! This is interesting.

All FOUR suitors! Here's how it's gonna go down.

• 12-1 Kiribayama = 11 + 12 + 12 = 35 over 3 all at Junior Sanyaku with a Yusho and a Jun-yusho, he's in!
• 15-0 Hoshoryu = 8 + 10 + 15 = 33 all at Sekiwake with a zensho to clinch it, he's in!
• 13-1 Daieisho = 10 + 12 + 13 = 35 over 3 plus a Doten and Jun-Yusho; he's in!
• 13-1 Wakamotoharu = 9 + 11 + 13 = 33 all at Junior sanyaku plus a Doten and Jun-Yusho; he's in!

Let me have this, Takayasu has crippled my hopes yet again 

EDIT: I just noticed my dodgy maths (12-1, 13-1, 13-1). I'm leaving it here as a testament to my terrible post-copy-paste double-checking.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Godango

[Akinomaki 40,756]

17 hours ago, Kishinoyama said:

I agree. He struggled to get off the dohyo yesterday after he won. 

He struggled to get off the dohyo and out after the dohyo-iri as well, plus the doubled taped knees. Tamanoi in his Sponichi corner today said he should go for the 10 wins next basho and rest - he's the one to make it back twice like that.

[Akinomaki 40,756]

3 hours ago, Morty said:

Those two torinaoshi provided spectacular outcomes for the spectators, with the redo bouts being way more gripping than the originals. More than two for the price of one.

Fujishima is the man for torinaoshi - the best head shimpan there is

[Akinomaki 40,756]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

Gagamaru brought a group of Georgians, performing with quite a Tochinoshin support show, which fired up Roga
o

This guy tried to have the whole hall chant for Tochinoshin - and went on for a minute. Like often in these cases, it had the opposite result

[Wakawakawaka 157]

3 hours ago, Godango said:

All FOUR suitors! Here's how it's gonna go down.

• 12-1 Kiribayama = 11 + 12 + 12 = 35 over 3 all at Junior Sanyaku with a Yusho and a Jun-yusho, he's in!
• 15-0 Hoshoryu = 8 + 10 + 15 = 33 all at Sekiwake with a zensho to clinch it, he's in!
• 13-1 Daieisho = 10 + 12 + 13 = 35 over 3 plus a Doten and Jun-Yusho; he's in!
• 13-1 Wakamotoharu = 9 + 11 + 13 = 33 all at Junior sanyaku plus a Doten and Jun-Yusho; he's in!

Let me have this, Takayasu has crippled my hopes yet again 

You'll have to share  I was hoping... Hoshoryu 15-0, Wakamotoharu 14-1, Daieisho 13-2, Kiribayama 12-3. Their only losses to each other.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Wakawakawaka

[808morgan 814]

On 01/05/2023 at 08:39, Tsubame said:

Is it too early to jinx Asanoyama's yusho?

I do expect him to do well and he is certainly motivated. 

[dingo 1,294]

9 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

There are 2 types of ozeki promotion. Type B is the one where the wrestler thinks "I made it, top of the mountain!" and knows he has achieved everything he set out to do. Type A thinks "Next step".  We have had a lot of Type B's in the last few years, but the only obvious Type A's have been Terunofuji and Takakeisho. Granted, Takakeisho hasn't made yokozuna and maybe never will, but you sense that he has never been satisfied with ozeki. Daieisho would be a Type B (and there's nothing wrong with that): Kiribayama and Hoshoryu would, I hope, be Type A's. I will refrain from making any comments on Wakamotoharu as I once predicted that he would be lucky to spend more than two tournaments in maku'uchi.

Agreed, and I'd posit that within Type B there's two types -- B1 who settles in nicely and will be a long-standing ozeki without (m)any hiccups. From this century I'd say Kaio, Kotooshu, Kotoshogiku, Goeido et al fit the bill. B2 are the ones who always seem to be borderline dropouts. Shodai, Tochinoshin, Miyabiyama et al. I guess you could say elevator ozeki in the sense that they always seem to be one makekoshi from demotion. Oh and I wouldn't count rank-ending injuries here since those are force majeure. 

[Kintamayama 45,500]

Lower divisions: Ukrainian Shishi (2-0) definitely looks like someone who took a step forward-excellent bout today, resilient and stubborn and winning. Oonosato (1-1) hasn't had me convinced re the hype yet-shaky and over-excited.. Ochiai (3-0), OTOH, is unstoppable at this point, shoulder injury notwithstanding. Kawazoe (1-1) is injured for sure. Russian Rouga (3-0) has taken a serious step forward as well. We may see him in Makuuchi as early as July. Solid sumo. Oushouma (2-1) didn't train at all before the basho-injured, but doing OK. Gounoyama(3-0) definitely the first Takekuma beya Makuuchi rikishi next basho. He is even beginning to look like Goueidou (retired). And most important- we have  a new salt thrower in Aqua (1-2). Did anybody guess it would be him? I remember we discussed that. As long as Terutsuyoshi (0-1) is un-sekitoried, Aqua will take over.

Juryo (2nd division) is awesome- I recommend it highly (10).

Edited May 16, 2023 by Kintamayama

[Kaninoyama 1,817]

Thought that Asanoyama - Kotoeiko bout deserved a torinaoshi. 

[Akinomaki 40,756]

Fujishima has used up his tori-naoshi quota - none for Kotoeko

[Bunbukuchagama 770]

4 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Thought that Asanoyama - Kotoeiko bout deserved a torinaoshi. 

"Dead body" rule. 

[Kaninoyama 1,817]

2 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

"Dead body" rule. 

Subjectively applied, as per usual. Plenty of "deader" bodies than that have been awarded a win or torinaoshi over the years. 

[Bunbukuchagama 770]

2 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Subjectively applied, as per usual. Plenty of "deader" bodies than that have been awarded a win or torinaoshi over the years. 

It was always subjective, wasn't it?

[Kaninoyama 1,817]

13 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Subjectively applied, as per usual.

.

[RabidJohn 1,854]

There was a guy with a magnificent head of dreadlocks on the south side today - thought there was a Klingon cosplayer in the audience for a moment. Anyone we should know?

That dohyo looks very slippery in places. Caused Abi to come to grief yesterday and it nearly got Daieisho twice today.

I felt that both Kiribayama and Hoshoryu lost matches they shouldn't have today...

[Hakuryuho 335]

4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Russian Rouga (3-0) has taken a serious step forward as well. We may see him in Makuuchi as early as July. Solid sumo.

Roga certainly looks in good shape, but he is 2-1 atm

[dingo 1,294]

A few observations about today's action for a change:

For the first two days it seemed to me that the Takarafuji of old is back. Especially yesterday when he dispatched Hokuseiho with strong oshi. Today unfortunately his strength didn't show up. Still hope for kachikoshi though.

Mitakeumi also showed a glimpse of his former self, skillfully avoiding oshiwashi and pushing Tamawashi out himself.

Kotonowaka vs Nishikifuji had the air of taking care of a boring job. Supremely calm and confident.

Hoshoryuu's expression after the quick landing provided by Tobizaru was priceless -- as if to say should've seen it coming. And perhaps he should've, seeing as Tobizaru was winless and also iirc attempted a henka last basho, though with a worse result. I think it was yesterday when the Japanese commentators were discussing how Hoshoryuu is perhaps underestimating smaller opponents, or taking them lightly. 

Takakeisho having trouble with Midorifuji is not a good sign. I mean there are several not so good signs already, but they just keep piling up. 

And yeah Asanoyama got a nice present from the shimpan.

Edited May 16, 2023 by dingo

[since_94 650]

4 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Thought that Asanoyama - Kotoeiko bout deserved a torinaoshi. 

Absolutely agree. Asanoyama received a gift there. Wakamotoharu especially empressive with that escape at the bales against poor hapless Shodai. The upper body of the former shows signs of muscling up, as does Terunofuji.

[Koorifuu 1,020]

Daylight robbery!

[junsan 196]

Asanoyama is their golden boy, the only next-Japanese-born-Yokozuna prospect.