GTB INVITE- July 2023- 175 entries, new record and RESULTS!!!

[Tigerboy1966 1,448]

1 minute ago, Reonito said:

Nishikifuji at M8, with a 5-rank drop after a 3-12?

That's the one that baffled me. I was also perfect down to M5w then things went strange.

[Reonito 1,461]

5 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

That's the one that baffled me. I was also perfect down to M5w then things went strange.

That's when the sake kicked in 

[Bunbukuchagama 726]

1 minute ago, Reonito said:

They seem especially random this time. I'm guessing Waka ended up way lower than expected because they know he won't be competing. Kinbozan should have been ahead of Nishikifuji, not 3 spots lower. Kotoshoho and Endo are also inexplicably far apart, and in the opposite direction from Kinbozan/Nishikifuji. A lot of the stuff below M5 doesn't seem particularly consistent.

This is how I predicted them (in relation to their mathematical places): Waka at +6, Takayasu +4, Endo +3, Nishikifuji +2.5, Kotoshoho +1, Kinbozan 0. I only got Takayasu right (even the committee couldn't screw it up, it seems ), the rest is off. 

Also, has anyone guessed Hokuseiho over Oho? Why? 

[Bunbukuchagama 726]

1 minute ago, Reonito said:

That's when the sake kicked in 

I still insist on my suspicion that sober members are not allowed to touch the board. 

[Reonito 1,461]

3 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Also, has anyone guessed Hokuseiho over Oho? Why? 

Hokuseiho was in the yusho race? Oho was too low at M16? I certainly didn't guess it and didn't see it in any posted guesses.

[Bunbukuchagama 726]

Just now, Reonito said:

Hokuseiho was in the yusho race?

Sort of? He finished 8-7, you know. Do they value his 3 losses to Sekiwake boys that much? 

[Reonito 1,461]

1 minute ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Sort of? He finished 8-7, you know. Do they value his 3 losses to Sekiwake boys that much? 

apparently?

[Ganzohnesushi 517]

Only 45 points here. Very mediocre. Disappointing.

Ganzohnesushi

[Hidenotora 82]

54 here I think, highest score I've heard so far is 65. Interested to see how things break down this time.

[Bunbukuchagama 726]

If I'm not mistaken, I got 40 points down to Sadanoumi... And then only 10 the rest of the way. 

[#1HENKAFAN 40]

What a weird banzuke, right? Nishikifuji's drop is so lenient I never could have predicted it and Oho below Hokuseiho also shocks me, among other things. Somehow despite that I got my best score ever by a good margin. My best score before this was 54 I'm pretty sure but this banzuke I got 62 points. Very proud of my banzuke for this one.

 

52 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

I still insist on my suspicion that sober members are not allowed to touch the board. 

I always pull out a bottle before I sit down and work on my banzuke. This strategy almost never fails.

Edited June 25, 2023 by #1HENKAFAN
Large image removed

[#1HENKAFAN 40]

I wasn't going to actually post my banzuke because when I put it in my post I thought the image was too large and it would annoy people, plus I couldn't fit another image o would have wanted in the post. Sorry to everyone because I honestly didn't mean to post it.

[Seiyashi 4,091]

18 minutes ago, #1HENKAFAN said:

I wasn't going to actually post my banzuke because when I put it in my post I thought the image was too large and it would annoy people, plus I couldn't fit another image o would have wanted in the post. Sorry to everyone because I honestly didn't mean to post it.

Put it in a GSheets and paste it over that way. Excel may also work depending on your browser. 

[Asashosakari 19,358]

Looks like 56 for me.
 

1 hour ago, Reonito said:

Hokuseiho ahead of Oho?

I'm rather more puzzled by Tsurugisho being ahead of Chiyoshoma, even. A multiple-wins advantage getting slightly discounted is at least a thing occasionally, but going the other way on a 9-6 / 8-7 pair? Feels like we haven't seen that in a long time.

[Kintamayama 45,145]

And the results are in. Two relatively new players were the top two players. The yusho goes to Tetsuba (1st time) in his fifth basho. Runner up is AAAAAAAA (maybe a shikona change is due?) in his third basho.  I bet NOBODY got Takanoshou right..Anyhow, not an exceptionally high scoring basho- i think most players got it up to M5, after which things began to deteriorate, starting with Nishikifuji's surprisingly small fall and well, to each his own disappointment /contentment..  22 new players, and a surprisingly large number of over-100 basho veterans (14) not doing well.

Milestones:

Oshirokita -120th basho

Konosato - 120th basho

Kintamayama- 50th basho

RaucherLax- 40th basho

Athenayama - 30th basho

Golynohana- 30th basho

TochiYESshin - 20th basho

Thanks for breaking the record of participating players and for playing.  Thanks to Doitsuyama and Andoreasu for running the game smoothly. See you next time, but till then..

On with the Ba-show!!

To see how you did, go here..

Edited June 27, 2023 by Kintamayama

[#1HENKAFAN 40]

6 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

And the results are in. Two relatively new players were the top two players. The yusho goes to Tetsuba (1st time) in his fifth basho. Runner up is AAAAAAAA (maybe a shikona change is due?) in his third basho.  I bet NOBODY got Takanoshou right..Anyhow, not an exceptionally high scoring basho- i think most players got it up to M%, after which things began to deteriorate, starting with Nishikifuji's surprisingly small fall and well, to each his own disappointment /contentment..  22 new players, and a surprisingly large number of over-100 basho veterans (14) not doing well.

Just to set things straight, I am AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA and I've played the game for 2 or 3 years now. Not as impressive as a 3rd basho runner-up, sadly. I cycle through email accounts often so I've had a few different shikona over the years. 300%HENKA and ANENEMYBRAND were shikona I used before. I don't remember if I have ever used any others but i just play the game for fun so I don't really care that it screws over my rankings.

[Tetsuba 33]

Just what the South of France villa thing? 

[Gurowake 4,062]

2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

I'm rather more puzzled by Tsurugisho being ahead of Chiyoshoma, even. A multiple-wins advantage getting slightly discounted is at least a thing occasionally, but going the other way on a 9-6 / 8-7 pair? Feels like we haven't seen that in a long time.

I'd attribute it to Tsurugisho having multiple sekiwake on his schedule.  That likely led to Hokuseiho's push over Oho as well.  That at least seems "consistent", even if I'm just speculating.

[Gurowake 4,062]

I find it amusing how the debate over the last spot in Makuuchi ended up effectively being entirely misguided.  Even if people got right which rikishi were in Makuuchi, I doubt many were putting Bushozan ahead of Ochiai so it wasn't relevant.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Gurowake

[#1HENKAFAN 40]

24 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

I find it amusing how the debate over the last spot in Makuuchi ended up effectively being entirely misguided.  Even if people got right which rikishi were in Makuuchi, I doubt many were putting Bushozan ahead of Ochiai so it wasn't relevant.

I put Kagayaki at M17w without promoting Ochiai, bumping up Bushozan to M16W by necessity and getting more points than I would have if I promoted both because there was no way I would have guessed Bushozan over Ochiai if they both got promoted. Even when it's the wrong decision choosing to not demote Kagayaki is earning me points.

[Gurowake 4,062]

54 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

I find it amusing how the debate over the last spot in Makuuchi ended up effectively being entirely misguided.  Even if people got right which rikishi were in Makuuchi, I doubt many were putting Bushozan ahead of Ochiai so it wasn't relevant.

Of course, the winner had both Bushozan and Ochiai right, which was the winning difference between my entry and theirs.

[Hoshotakamoto 259]

On 19/06/2023 at 20:05, Hoshotakamoto said:

In division 1 you can start sliding names gently upward until you get to M3w, where you have to decide between Gonoyama, Meisei, Asanoyama, and Hiradoumi. Easy to cross off Gonoyama's name, and Hiradoumi also cannot conceivably advance higher than Meisei. So the first question is Meisei vs Asanoyama. I believe I chose Meisei because he put the L on Terunofuji.

Meanwhile in Juryo you can leave the J1e slot open and do the same, gliding people up the ranks to fill in the vacancies (it's obvious the falling maegashira will have soft landings), and you're constrained by the inability to bring Oshoma up higher than the place where he started - same for Churanoumi. The first hard question is what to do about Hakuyozan?

I'm going to try to grade these without nuking the board (maybe it will all go inside one post?).

So the first step of just naively sliding pieces into place captured 26 uncontested points from Y down to M3e. (min: 26, max 84/84)

In Juryo Kagayaki trolled me on the first line (-1), and the transposition of Tohakuryu (J2w 4-11, a J9w by simple arithmetic) ahead of Tamashoho (J11w 9-6, a J8w by simple arithmetic) at J4w/J5e stripped 4 points off the board. So 13 points captured, 5 surrendered (min: 13, max 51/56).

--- reviewing the 2nd post ---

Once I've decided that I like Meisei's promotion packet better than Asanoyama's it's fairly straightforward to drop Asanoyama in at M4e and assume that Ura will drop at least half a slot for his 7-8. Gonoyama can mark time at M5e although we learned two months ago there is no way in hell he'll really be in this discussion. Hiradoumi grabs the next available slot, Onosho the one after that, and we can assume Tamawashi, Sadanoumi, and Takanosho will all receive non-demotions since they are so far ahead of everyone below them (and remember, 2-3 of these people will still end up being gifted spots above them).

 

In Juryo it's hard to swallow the notion that they'll put Takakento ahead of Churanoumi so let's slide Takakento to J8e. Hakuyozan at J7e becomes palatable. J6e is really only available to Fujiseiun or Akua (unless they are insane and give it to Azumaryu). Give the nod to Fujiseiun. We'll defer the J6 problem until later. Remember, both Akua and Tomokaze deserve to be lower than all 4 of those guys, but one of them is going to have to jump the pack (or will I eat these words?)

 

--- after the 2nd post

As far as the ordering or Meisei->Asanoyama->Ura it appears that my reasoning was sound (or at least co-signed by a room full of crazy people). I believe Hiradoumi and Onosho will end up in the next 2 slots by the time my analysis is done, so claim those, and the points for Tamawashi and Sadanoumi (10 so far). Now I notice that the room full of crazies gave Takanosho the poke in the eye by Nishikifuji so I'll surrender 4 points on both of them (the Nishikifuji question I ultimately left unanswered was never going to resolve itself at M8). (min: 36, max 80/84) So far the logic of the first 2 posts has secured a 4-11 GTB finish if everything else goes wrong.

Claim 2 juryo points for Fujiseiun at J6e. (min: 15, max 51/56)

-- Reviewing the 3rd post

 

We know that Oho will be treated better than Gonoyama, so we can go ahead and pull him up behind Onosho and slot Gonoyama in behind him (I'm sure he will have a ways yet to fall). The ordering of Hokuseiho vs Hokutofuji is a matter of taste - sometimes they like to give preference to the KK over the MK. Other times there is bias toward the veteran over the newcomer, or joi bias although I don't think that applies to Hokutofuji here. I went ahead and gave Hokuseiho the nod because he had a more heroic performance in May but they could easily prove me wrong. I stop dragging names when I hit Takayasu, and here's the "aha" moment as in, aha, so Takayasu is going to be the solution to "the Gonoyama problem" (i.e. that unfilled hole further up the banzuke). Deciding how leniently they will treat Takayasu will be the determining factor for the final placement of Hiradoumi, Onosho, Oho, as well as the two men I just discussed.

Down in Juryo, I give Akua the nod vs Tomokaze, which may have been an unforced error since it's virtually indefensible vs Hakuyozan. Nonetheless I'm not going to spend all night deliberating this one. Tomokaze slides up, we start pulling up Chiyosakae and Shimanoumi while completely disregarding the arbitrary placement I gave the makushita gang. I'm deferring the question of Chiyomaru and Azumaryu, but it's fair to assume I will give the nod eventually to Azumaryu.

 

--- After the 3rd post

I love their decision to put Hokuseiho ahead of Oho, but it will cost 2 points (and we can bank 2 points for putting those two on the M6 row eventually). (min: 38, max 78/84) -- the M6 row brings the GTB score up to a 5-10 entry or better.

That Azumaryu placement is just ... *chef's kiss* ... I mean the audacity. Hakuyozan and Churanoumi will hold onto these spots in J7 for 4 points, as well as Takakento (2 more). I was right that Akua would get preferential treatment over Tomokaze but it backfires on me for another -4. Daiamami collects 2 but Azumaryu knocks off another 3 points for Chiyosakae/Shimanoumi as he bumps them half a slot (which is really more costly than it ought to be, when you think about it). (min 24, max 41/56)

--- Reviewing the 4th post 

For the next segment we will carry out the systematic screwing of the guys coming up from lower divisions. In Juryo it's academic, as Azumaryu claims J10w, Chiyomaru drops 1 row to J11e, Tsushimanada jumps 3 rows on an 8-7, Hidenoumi drops 1 row for 6-9, now we've fully disrespected the 5 guys coming up, Shishi can gave J12w, Kawazoe J13e, and I leave the bottom row open to be settled on the next iteration.

In the top division it's a question of who's most deserving to steal Gonoyama's plunder. Hiradoumi moves over, Onosho moves up, Oho moves up ... remember, the question is when is it going to feel comfortable to drop Takayasu's name in here. In fact I will pause at this step, with the M6w slot open -- we know they're not going to give it to Gonoyama, there's a bunch of MK guys here (Hokutofuji's name is also ruled out). There's Hokuseiho's 8-7 which felt like so much more than that for most of the tournament, if you want to get crazy you can even raise the question of does Wakatakakage deserve to fall further than this (but his name is so laughably far down there according to him missing 15 matches). I will jump in the air and give myself a high five if they open M6w for Gonoyama, but realistically I am thinking this will be Hokuseiho's landing spot, and the question of Hokuseiho vs Hokutofuji suddenly seems quaint.

--- After the 4th post

I don't see any useful decisions to change the min/max after this post for GTB -- still min 38, max 78?

In Juryo I made the right call on Chiyomaru and Tsushimanada (+4) but I didn't see them keeping Shishi ahead of Hidenoumi (take 2, surrender 2). Also wow! Shishi who looked totally lost in September 2021 is now a Juryo 12 east. Take 2 points for Kiho. (min 32, max 39/56)

Edited June 26, 2023 by Hoshotakamoto

[Bunbukuchagama 726]

1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

I find it amusing how the debate over the last spot in Makuuchi ended up effectively being entirely misguided.  Even if people got right which rikishi were in Makuuchi, I doubt many were putting Bushozan ahead of Ochiai so it wasn't relevant.

Well, Kagayaki the Upstanding Citizen got demoted after all,  we cannot be robbed of this moral victory! 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Bunbukuchagama

[Tetsuba 33]

1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

Of course, the winner had both Bushozan and Ochiai right, which was the winning difference between my entry and theirs.

yeah my rationale was that Bushozan couldn't be denied with 10-5 from J3, while big scores in mid-Juryo were slightly less guaranteed (when Mitoryu didn't get promoted on 12-3 from J6) so my thinking was the closest rikishi on the promotion/non-promotion edge were Atamifuji and Ochiai/Hakuoho. Sicne Hakuoho had a better score he was the one promoted, but I put him at the very last spot as his promotion was the "closest".

Edited June 26, 2023 by Tetsuba

[Tetsuba 33]

49 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Well, Kagayaki the Upstanding Citizen got demoted after all,  we cannot be robbed of this moral victory! 

just half a rank, I was expecting him below Atamifuji