Nagoya 2023 discussion (results)

[Jakusotsu 6,045]

  On 21/07/2023 at 12:32, Akinomaki said:

We can have a real anticlimax though if Hokutofuji and Wakamotoharu win tomorrow. No ozeki promotion and the yusho decided on day 14.

That's exactly what I picked in SekiToto,

[Hankegami 537]

  On 21/07/2023 at 12:32, Akinomaki said:

We can have a real anticlimax though if Hokutofuji and Wakamotoharu win tomorrow. No ozeki promotion and the yusho decided on day 14.

And Nishikigi loses as well? Well, this would be awkward, since we would get a bunch of 10-5J. Last time it happened was Haru 2003, and overall it occurred in a grand total of three basho (1968.05, 1972.01, 2003.03) since the beginning of the 15-day tournament era (see query).

Why I am suddenly intrigued by this possibility? 

[dada78641 884]

Is there even the slightest chance that Hakuoho doesn't get the fighting spirit prize? What a boss. He's destined for greatness.

[Kamitsuumi 402]

  On 21/07/2023 at 13:30, dada78641 said:

Is there even the slightest chance that Hakuoho doesn't get the fighting spirit prize? What a boss. He's destined for greatness.

The (if unwritten) rule is that 10 wins on your makuuchi debut is good enough for the fighting spirit prize.

[Akinomaki 40,753]

  On 21/07/2023 at 12:47, Hankegami said:

And Nishikigi loses as well? Well, this would be awkward, since we would get a bunch of 10-5J.

Nishiki losing to Ryuden and then winning to Hokutofuji, when it doesn't matter any more - we can still have plenty of 11-4J

[RabidJohn 1,853]

Am I imagining things, or has Kinbozan markedly improved his yotsu in the last 2 months? He may not be pulling any trees up, but he's not looking helpless.

[Akinomaki 40,753]

  On 21/07/2023 at 14:23, Kamitsuumi said:

The (if unwritten) rule is that 10 wins on your makuuchi debut is good enough for the fighting spirit prize.

For an intermediate period it was not a sure thing, but the last to be denied it this way were Myogiryu and Shohozan Kyushu 2011 (I had thought there was somebody else later) http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_wins=10-15&form1_m=on&form1_debutd=on&form1_ns=on

11 was always enough, older cases are before the introduction of sansho

Edited July 21, 2023 by Akinomaki

[Bunbukuchagama 770]

  On 21/07/2023 at 14:34, RabidJohn said:

He may not be pulling any trees up

I remember his nice clean tsuridashi agains Chiyoshoma back in Haru. 

[dingo 1,293]

Daieisho was showing very solid sumo at the beginning of the basho but it slowly started to unravel until it wasn't the Daieisho of last basho anymore. The losses crept in one by one until he turned into the old Daieisho, prone to overextending and occasional bellyflops. And dare I say, that isn't ozeki sumo. 

[Benevolance 2,508]

I'm not sure that either Waka or Daieisho will be able to pick up their necessary three wins in their final two matches without some rather preposterous ringside antics involving a botched matta, at least three complicit shimpan, and an explosive ikebana arrangement. 

[Tigerboy1966 1,472]

  On 21/07/2023 at 20:04, Benevolance said:

I'm not sure that either Waka or Daieisho will be able to pick up their necessary three wins in their final two matches

There's a koan in there somewhere... "A wrestler has two matches. He wins three".

[robnplunder 976]

  On 21/07/2023 at 12:01, Bakayokozuna said:

Hakuoho can potentially take the yusho in his 4th ozumo tournament... crazy

Nope.  I want Hokutofuji to take the Yusho in his 50th tournament.  

[WAKATAKE 2,671]

  On 21/07/2023 at 22:36, robnplunder said:

Nope.  I want Hokutofuji to take the Yusho in his 50th tournament.  

If Hokutofuji were to do this, when was the last time that the Rijicho of the NSK had a wrestler from his own heya win the yusho?

[Jakusotsu 6,045]

  On 22/07/2023 at 04:43, WAKATAKE said:

If Hokutofuji were to do this, when was the last time that the Rijicho of the NSK had a wrestler from his own heya win the yusho?

If I'm not mistaken it was Kitabayama in July 1963.

[dingo 1,293]

By the way how about Ryuden? Nine wins in a row after a 0-4 start is nothing short of amazing. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by dingo
Spelling

[Seiyashi 4,108]

  On 22/07/2023 at 05:30, dingo said:

By the way how about Ryuden? Nine wins in a row after a 0-4 start is nothing short of amazing. 

He's like the reverse Takayasu. 

Might spoil someone's slim hope of the yūshō but not a contender nor likely to be matched against the real contenders, I think. 

[Katooshu 3,325]

And an amateur great locks in juryo promotion in just his second basho. Go go Onosato 

[Seiyashi 4,108]

  On 22/07/2023 at 05:53, Katooshu said:

And an amateur great locks in juryo promotion in just his second basho. Go go Onosato 

Pfffft, needed two basho? Someone did it in one! 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Seiyashi

[Katooshu 3,325]

Ya, omg he lost some matches! HYPE JOB!!! 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Katooshu

[Bunbukuchagama 770]

Shishi slaps hard.

[Katooshu 3,325]

I don't recall him slapping much prior to this basho but he's really going for it now. Not a big fan of slapping but it's working for him, both offensively and as a way to reset his attack and keep opponents off.

And yikes. Tomokaze blasted out by Kagayaki like a jonokuchi lightweight. Seemed unable to put up any resistance; hope he's okay.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Katooshu

[dingo 1,293]

  On 22/07/2023 at 06:34, Katooshu said:

I don't recall him slapping much prior to this basho but he's really going for it now. Not a big fan of slapping but it's working for him, both offensively and as a way to reset his attack and keep opponents off.

He's really starting to resemble a younger Aoiyama, in body shape, posture and sumo style. But his sumo is still very much all over the place rough and tumble. Seemingly always an element of uncontrollability involved. 

[Bunbukuchagama 770]

  On 22/07/2023 at 06:54, dingo said:

He's really starting to resemble a younger Aoiyama, in body shape, posture and sumo style. But his sumo is still very much all over the place rough and tumble. Seemingly always an element of uncontrollability involved. 

I think he is starting to realize that he needs to create chaos in order to succeed. He doesn't have the fundamentals to practice a "traditional" sumo style, so, his wins need to be scrappy and ugly. 

[Seiyashi 4,108]

  On 22/07/2023 at 06:34, Katooshu said:

And yikes. Tomokaze blasted out by Kagayaki like a jonokuchi lightweight. Seemed unable to put up any resistance; hope he's okay.

Probably a natural consequence of trying a backwards hatakikomi style of sumo against people who just come straight out of the tachiai shoving. He suffered the same fate against Atamifuji yesterday.

[Bunbukuchagama 770]

  On 22/07/2023 at 07:04, Seiyashi said:

Probably a natural consequence of trying a backwards hatakikomi style of sumo against people who just come straight out of the tachiai shoving. He suffered the same fate against Atamifuji yesterday.

"Always hatakikomi" is too predictable of an approach to not be punished by opponents at some point.