Kyushu 2023 discussion (results)

[Akinomaki 40,779]

After nearly 4 years the rikishi actually drink the chikara-mizu again, last Hatsu 2020, after that they only took the ladle and returned it.

o

Hokuseiho never did this before and was surprised, longest makuuchi Sadanoumi forgot that he was allowed again and simply returned it. Kitanowaka: "At last we're back to the proper sumo-like form."

[RabidJohn 1,855]

So many new faces in makuuchi. The times really are a-changing. 

Hokuseiho's left arm came into play again - the sleeping giant may get out of bed soon.

I can see Wakamotoharu looking rubbish, or I can see Takayasu looking great, but I can't see both at the same time. It's like an optical illusion.

The ozeki did ozeki stuff, as they should, but what was with Takakeisho's out of character half-smile at Hokutofuji before the tachi-ai? Did they put something in his chikara-mizu?

[Yamanashi 3,904]

The O-S-K goes 6-2, so that's a solid first day.  Strangely, the West side from S1 through M6 all lost.

[Yamanashi 3,904]

Is Takerufuji (Ms1w) meeting Chiyosakae (J14e) tomorrow because of the imbalance in Juryo, or is this just a regular cross-division match?

[Reonito 1,519]

  On 12/11/2023 at 16:51, Yamanashi said:

Is Takerufuji (Ms1w) meeting Chiyosakae (J14e) tomorrow because of the imbalance in Juryo, or is this just a regular cross-division match?

Standard rotation because of the imbalance; started with Ms1e Hakuyozan vs. J14w Azumaryu on day 1. They don't schedule discretionary cross-division matches until well into week two when the exchange picture starts to come into focus.

[Reonito 1,519]

  On 11/11/2023 at 08:42, Bakayokozuna said:

Wakatakakage vs Kayo in day one.

Thats an intersting one. Curious to see in what shape the former sekiwake is coming back in action.

He looked completely unready to be back.

[Reonito 1,519]

  On 12/11/2023 at 07:58, Fashiritētā said:

Mitakeumi still not looking himself.

Ryuden owns him

[Reonito 1,519]

  On 12/11/2023 at 09:23, Tigerboy1966 said:

Looked like everyone except the gyoji was expecting a matta call in the final bout. Bad luck for Hokutofuji, but as they say in soccer, you gotta play to the whistle.

He hadn't even started to put his left hand down when Takakeisho launched. Even if he didn't let up, he was at a huge disadvantage.

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

  On 12/11/2023 at 18:00, Reonito said:

  On 11/11/2023 at 08:42, Bakayokozuna said:

Wakatakakage vs Kayo in day one.

Thats an intersting one. Curious to see in what shape the former sekiwake is coming back in action.

He looked completely unready to be back.

It's a tricky one. I think Wakatakakage thinks he can have a few bouts without serious risk of exacerbating the injury. That way he stays in the game and if he can get a win or two he can minimise his drop down the rankings. I would say "he knows what his body is capable of" but I think most of us have been around here for long enough to know how hollow and ominous that sounds,

[Fashiritētā 184]

Testing the waters so to speak.

He has a margin for error and intends to use it.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Fashiritētā

[Reonito 1,519]

If there's no significant re-injury risk that's fine, but I'd want to have strong reassurances from the relevant orthopedic specialists that that's the case. If he stayed out and rehabbed it for 2 more months, he'd drop to Ms40-something, which wouldn't delay his comeback all that much, assuming he'd be in better fighting shape.

[Bunbukuchagama 771]

  On 12/11/2023 at 11:47, junsan said:

When I see plodding yotsu zumo bouts, I really begin to appreciate Abi's in your face tsuppari.

But you see, yotsu doesn't have to be plodding.

[Bunbukuchagama 771]

  On 12/11/2023 at 18:49, Reonito said:

If there's no significant re-injury risk that's fine, but I'd want to have strong reassurances from the relevant orthopedic specialists that that's the case. If he stayed out and rehabbed it for 2 more months, he'd drop to Ms40-something, which wouldn't delay his comeback all that much, assuming he'd be in better fighting shape.

I think his trouble is largely mental in nature. There is no way he should be experiencing pain or instability in his knee at the moment, but if you are going into battle thinking "I don't want to get hurt again", you are likely to lose - even in Makushita.

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

  On 12/11/2023 at 20:09, Bunbukuchagama said:

  On 12/11/2023 at 11:47, junsan said:

When I see plodding yotsu zumo bouts, I really begin to appreciate Abi's in your face tsuppari.

But you see, yotsu doesn't have to be plodding. 

I love a good yotsu plodding stalemate. Nothing is happening but anything can happen. Each man is looking for a micro-advantage that he can lever into something significant. But of course the other guy is looking to do the exact same thing... every move opens the way to a counter. Slow matches let you get involved in the thoughts of the wrestlers... "my right shoulder is up too high"... "damn that loose mawashi"... "if i could get that grip half a hand deeper"... "just once I wish I was shorter"... "can't think of anything, let's see what he's got"... "I practised this but I can't remember what I'm supposed to do"... "go ahead and try for a grip change, I've got the answer"... "I wish headbutts were legal"...  "are we due for a water break?".

[Kotomiyama 174]

Very happy to see Tomokaze back in Makuuchi. Let's hope that he can get his kachikoshi.

Takakeisho - Hokutofuji should have been a matta... or not. His opponents can't give him a centimetre, he will gladly take it.

[Koorifuu 1,020]

Kayo is no joke, but the way Wakatakakage walks himself out of the dohyo after putting a lot of effort on his legs wasn't promising. He might still win a few bouts but the biggest concern has got to be a relapse.

[Tochinofuji 387]

I was certainly hoping for a more promising return from Wakatakakage, but the way he moved makes me think it may be too early yet. That or its a mental thing he'll hopefully overcome, so fingers crossed. 

[Bunbukuchagama 771]

Hitoshi wheeled away...

[Katooshu 3,333]

Daishoho looked and sounded obliterated by the first match vs Onosato. Has absolutely nothing left for the rematch.

[rhyen 1,846]

So 2 torinaoshi and 1 wheelchair in Juryo. 

[Yarimotsu 592]

Very close for Gonoyama. 

Also, some solid Ozeki sumo for two days in a row. Can I jinx it for the third?

[RabidJohn 1,855]

  On 13/11/2023 at 10:48, Yarimotsu said:

Very close for Gonoyama. 

Somewhat robbed, I'd say. The replay showed 2 'dead bodies' with Daieisho's hand touching first.

[Koorifuu 1,020]

That tandem slippiotoshi was something to behold, but I don't really see why they couldn't just call the sashichigae. Gonoyama had that one.

Hitoshi's knee gave out a loud snap. Horrible sign.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Koorifuu

[dingo 1,294]

Gounoyama obviously seems like a difficult opponent for Daieisho. That's why he sidestepped in the torinaoshi bout, otherwise the result would've been the opposite. Daieisho's elbows seem even more wrapped in than usual. Makes me wonder if his sumo is gonna be sustainable.

Wakamotoharu got his sumo going today, unlike yesterday. Very typical, strong yori win for him.

Seems like Takakeisho's forward moving sumo has lasted for about 15 seconds in total if you take yesterday into account as well. He still got the win today but each bout seems quite precarious for him. Taking into account his injury issues, can't blame him though. 

Very impressed by Kirishima, flying out of the tachiai faster than Abi! That's quite a feat to accomplish. It's as if the ozeki bouts today were ranked by shakiness level - very shaky by Takakeisho to start off, somewhat shaky by Hoshoryuu next and not a tiny bit shaky at all by Kirishima. 

Plenty of serious contenders by the end of the second day, looks like it'll be an interesting basho! 

[Yarimotsu 592]

  On 13/11/2023 at 11:24, RabidJohn said:

Somewhat robbed, I'd say. The replay showed 2 'dead bodies' with Daieisho's hand touching first.

Honestly I was happy with the call. Usually where the dead body becomes apparent for one, then the other who touches first becomes dead body slightly later, I like to see the bout called a redo. Expecting big things from Gonoyama in the future though, he clearly has the spirit and skill to stick around the top of the banzuke.