Aki 2023 discussion (results)

[Akinomaki 39,856]

2 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

What on earth is there to dislike about Atamifuji?

He's too kawaii

[MrGrumpyGills 119]

2 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

What on earth is there to dislike about Atamifuji?

I'm not going to elaborate on that. If you like him, fine, I don't. Lets agree to disagree.

[Asashosakari 18,813]

Meanwhile, sumo currently also sports two rikishi who have simultaneously posted 9+ wins in five straight joi tournaments without becoming ozeki, the first time that's ever happened.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Asashosakari

[Akinomaki 39,856]

8 hours ago, Reonito said:

I guess Midorifuji already got a gino-sho for winning 5 bouts by katasukashi...

He even got the 6th today - 60% of his wins. Had he just started a bit earlier with his wins and not just finished with 10 in the end, he might have been considered

[Asashosakari 18,813]

14 minutes ago, Hankegami said:

I think it's highly unlikely to ever happen. A 11-4Y literally happened only thrice since the 15 day basho era before today - now four times (here). Last time it happened was Kyushu 2017 (Harumafuji), before that Kyushu 1996 (Musashimaru), and the first occurrence was Hatsu 1972 (Tochiazuma I). That is, four times in 51 years and 304 basho (306 minus Haru 2011 and Natsu 2020). That's a 1,3% incidence. Also, I think that Terunofuji will be pressed to enter Kyushu. If he's anywhere in a good form, the yusho threshold will raise considerably.

Seems pretty risky to try to derive useful predictions from the historical rate of 11-4 yusho scores when the rate of 12-3 yusho scores is currently going through the roof.

[Bakayokozuna 52]

Well that was a bit lame Takakeisho but congratz anyway! 

[Kishinoyama 582]

I am not a fan of Endo but the kirikaeshi against Kotoshoho was just so natural in the flow of the match. 

 

 

[RabidJohn 1,667]

Henka Hamster! Let him have yusho no. 4 without fretting, won't you? That's a damn fine career.

Talk of ropes is pointless. This is Takakeisho. After a good result he gets injured the following basho, pulls out and is kadoban again for the one after that. 

He's a good lad - doesn't give the YDC any opportunities.

---

I heard the Japanese commentator mention mitokorozeme after the Hoshoryu-Hokuseiho match. Was he calling it, or asking Mainoumi-san if that's what it was?
It was close, IMO. Hoshoryu did all three things, just not quite simultaneously.

Edited September 24, 2023 by RabidJohn

[Kintamayama 44,375]

1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

Please get real, of course they would.

Sadogatake was quite ambiguous. First he said that the quality was ummm, well "not what we expect to see." Then he went on to say how great it was that the top ranked active rikishi was involved in the yusho race. Then he added "Promotion? He'll need a higher level of sumo. it all depends on the situation on senshuraku next basho..'" being careful not to declare a tsunatori basho. But, there has never been an Ozeki who got back to back yushos and was not promoted. And here, i learned something new: This is not  a Kyokai rule, but a YDC stipulation. So this is a real bind the Kyokai is in, but I'm pretty sure he won't get the yusho next basho so it will be moot. No way he gets promoted with that "equivalent: thing. 11-4 yusho, after all, and with a hen.. you know what I mean.

[ryafuji 807]

3 hours ago, rhyen said:

First time seeing a shimpan leaving midway with an injury, Naruto moves to the west side to cover.

will we see a replacement before the sanyaku sorobumi?

Poor Jinmaku, had a flying rikishi fall on him when he was an active wrestler too (Fujinoshin) - that injury ended his makuuchi career. 

[dingo 1,161]

3 hours ago, hakutorizakura said:

Seeing how sumo's schedule (and possibly other sport) has to be synced with TV's, I can't help to think that they must have some role in the game 

(Yobidashi whispers to Inosuke: Don't make a stupid decision risking a monoii, NHK needs to cut 5 more minutes, see that guy over there, he'll signal you which guy is the winner)

They should use that guy over there every time. Or maybe they do, but Inosuke gets his signal wrong too... 

[ryafuji 807]

Will they promote Takakeisho with a second straight yusho?  Of course they will. Will Takakeisho get a second straight yusho? Of course he won't. 

[Hankegami 412]

9 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Sadogatake was quite ambiguous. First he said that the quality was ummm, well "not what we expect to see." Then he went on to say how great it was that the top ranked active rikishi was involved in the yusho race. Then he added "Promotion? He'll need a higher level of sumo. it all depends on the situation on senshuraku next basho..'" being careful not to declare a tsunatori basho. But, there has never been an Ozeki who got back to back yushos and was not promoted. And here, i learned something new: This is not  a Kyokai rule, but a YDC stipulation. So this is a real bind the Kyokai is in, but I'm pretty sure he won't get the yusho next basho so it will be moot. No way he gets promoted with that "equivalent: thing. 11-4 yusho, after all, and with a hen.. you know what I mean.

Technically speaking, there have been Ozeki with back-to-back yusho not promoted to Yokozuna: Tamanishiki in 1930-31, and Chiyonoyama in 1949-50 (here). Chiyonoyama was denied the rope because he was deemed too young for such a responsibility (he was 23 years and 11 months old). As for Tamanishiki, @Asashosakari once wrote that he was likely denied the rope because of his brash personality. Them both got the rope eventually, though. Also, Chiyonoyama (whose second Yusho came in May 1950) was probably rejected by the YDC (inaugurated in April 21, 1950, see here), so it constitutes a direct precedent for rejecting Takakeisho whether he manages to win another weak Yusho in Kyushu (in this case for a lack of hinkaku in sense of non-dominant performance, like Seiyashi suggested).

But, once again, I concur the thances for Takakeisho to go back-to-back in Kyushu are exceedingly small.

1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

Seems pretty risky to try to derive useful predictions from the historical rate of 11-4 yusho scores when the rate of 12-3 yusho scores is currently going through the roof.

Absolutely true. However, we long avoided a 11-4Y despite two whole years of sumo wilderness (barring 13-2Y Mitakeumi and Tamawashi, and 14-1Y Terunofuji) before falling for this one. Chances are that Kyushu will provide than yet another 12-3Y or possibly better, rather than a second 11-4Y.

[Kotogouryuu 126]

1 hour ago, Kishinoyama said:

I am not a fan of Endo but the kirikaeshi against Kotoshoho was just so natural in the flow of the match. 

 

That was a flash of what Endo did so well before his injury. His legwork is phenomenal.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Kotogouryuu

[Tsubame 356]

Regarding a possible promotion of Takakeishos:

The days of Terunofuji are numbered. He will not be on the dohyo for long. It is very likely that 2024 will see his intai.

So, having a yokozuna candidate at hand is quite handy, esp. with Takakeisho being a poster boy already. With a second yusho in november I see no way they deny him the promotion. But I agree that a jun-yusho will most likely not be enough, due to  the "circumstances" of his latest yusho. 

[Gooner 39]

Takakeishou has been denied ozeki promotion with 33 wins including Y an JY, denied Yokozuna promotion with JY and Y, surely they can't also deny yokozuna promotion with Y Y... 

His sumo may be one-dimensional, he's pretty good at it though.

[Morty 1,480]

I like Atamifuji but as soon as his opponents came from higher up the banzuke he looked out of his depth. He was easily beaten in three of his last four bouts. The henka in the play-off is moot for me because Atamifuji  isn't (yet) at yusho level in terms of the quality of his sumo. The top guys schooled him. I hope he continues to develop and wins a yusho in the joi, but I'm not sad he didn't get this one.

[Godango 956]

3 hours ago, Hankegami said:

I think it's highly unlikely to ever happen. A 11-4Y literally happened only thrice since the 15 day basho era before today - now four times (here). Last time it happened was Kyushu 2017 (Harumafuji), before that Kyushu 1996 (Musashimaru), and the first occurrence was Hatsu 1972 (Tochiazuma I). That is, four times in 51 years and 304 basho (306 minus Haru 2011 and Natsu 2020). That's a 1,3% incidence. Also, I think that Terunofuji will be pressed to enter Kyushu. If he's anywhere in a good form, the yusho threshold will raise considerably.

Couldn't agree more, it's as an as near-zero chance as anything. I just am interested in the hypothetical. 

[dingo 1,161]

Well, like everyone said, what an anticlimax. I like Takakeisho, but that henka was quite unpleasant to watch. And he didn't even bother to put either of his hands down. Would've been interesting if the gyoji had called a matta in the middle of Atamifuji flying down. 

On the other hand, Takakeisho did what's required of an ozeki. In that way, he set an example for his Mongolian colleagues. I'm pretty sure both of them will come back strong next basho and compete for the yusho. Perhaps even ruin Takakeisho's potential promotion chances, if he doesn't ruin it himself beforehand. 

Oh yeah, I'm sure Hoshoryu was certain of his kachikoshi as soon as his torikumi. No way Hokuseiho was gonna beat him. A nice gesture of goodwill from the Kyokai 

An exciting basho in the end. But the 11-4 leaves a weird afterimpression, as if there was something lacking. I hope we'll see a higher yusho score in November. And now I made myself depressed, realising that the next basho is only in November... 

[Asashosakari 18,813]

1 hour ago, Hankegami said:

Technically speaking, there have been Ozeki with back-to-back yusho not promoted to Yokozuna: Tamanishiki in 1930-31, and Chiyonoyama in 1949-50 (here). Chiyonoyama was denied the rope because he was deemed too young for such a responsibility (he was 23 years and 11 months old). As for Tamanishiki, @Asashosakari once wrote that he was likely denied the rope because of his brash personality. Them both got the rope eventually, though. Also, Chiyonoyama (whose second Yusho came in May 1950) was probably rejected by the YDC (inaugurated in April 21, 1950, see here), so it constitutes a direct precedent for rejecting Takakeisho whether he manages to win another weak Yusho in Kyushu (in this case for a lack of hinkaku in sense of non-dominant performance, like Seiyashi suggested).

While the YDC itself was created in 1950, its set of internal guidelines for evaluating yokozuna candidacies was only drawn up in 1958.

(Also, Chiyonoyama's second yusho was in January 1950.)

[Octofuji 327]

How much time did Takakeisho have to recover between his bout with Daieisho and the playoff? I wonder if that might be a factor in him choosing to henka, given how breathless he gets after just one bout.

I'm off to watch the highlights again and stop before the playoff, I was thoroughly enjoying the matches until then!

[Tigerboy1966 1,379]

I have never liked Takakeisho's sumo, but I have always respected his dedication, fighting spirit and demeanor (that hinkaku thing). I lost a lot of respect for him today. If a foreigner had pulled that move in a crucial match he would have been booed out of the hall- ask Hakuho or Terunofuji about that. Just hoping that the Mongolian ozeki put their feet back on the gas next time and give him a bloody good hiding.

I write this in the certain knowledge that Takakeisho will read this comment and weep bitter tears knowing that I don't like him anymore.

[Koorifuu 886]

Of all times not to enforce the hands-down rule.

[rhyen 1,809]

7 minutes ago, Octofuji said:

How much time did Takakeisho have to recover between his bout with Daieisho and the playoff? I wonder if that might be a factor in him choosing to henka, given how breathless he gets after just one bout.

I'm off to watch the highlights again and stop before the playoff, I was thoroughly enjoying the matches until then!

He fought in the penultimate bout, so he had at least 5 minutes of rest. Then a return to the shitakubeya to redo the mage and another 5 minutes or more to strategise and warm up. 

[Koorifuu 886]

1 hour ago, Kotogouryuu said:

That was a flash of what Endo did so well before his injury. His legwork is phenomenal.

I sure miss watching pre-poorly-treated-injury Endo. That was class.