Haru 2024 discussion (results)

[Katooshu 3,091]

I agree about his yotsu skills - they are what made me think of him as a future makuuchi mainstay, and he's young so it could still happen. Sometimes he's just so easy to move though, especially off the belt, like he weighs half of what he does. He outperformed similar age peers Onosato and Takerufuji in high school, but he hasn't developed nearly as much physical strength as they have.

Edited March 18 by Katooshu

[Tigerboy1966 1,376]

13 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

he hasn't developed nearly as much physical strength as they have

That's exactly what I always notice. Kitanowaka does not seem to generate the power that we would expect from someone of his physique. Is the issue a physical one or is he just not skilled enough to make use of his advantages?

[Kirinoumi 14]

9 hours ago, BroadMeadow said:

The Kotoshoho-Kitanowaka bout was bonkers. It seems like one of Kotoshoho's biggest obstacles is discouragement. Sometimes he just looks like he loses his heart. Great to see him engaged and fighting for a win. 

On Abema Sumo, they were talking about how the two were in the Saitama Sakae High School sumo club together, so they routinely practiced with each other. Kotoshoho was fighting to uphold his honor as the senior of the two (senpai no iji wo miseru), while Kitanowaka was fighting to avoid makekoshi, so both were extra determined. The announcer also commented that the generally affable Kotoshoho looked unusually stern after the bout, possibly because of the unexpected harite he received from his junior.

Edited March 18 by Kirinoumi

[Kachikoshi 21]

11 hours ago, dingo said:

I don't think it's right to say Kotonowaka has peaked, he hasn't had a makekoshi since 2022 July! 

That wasn’t even a real makekoshi; it was a forced COVID withdrawal when he was 7-3 (and so likely en route to another kachikoshi). His last real makekoshi was November 2021.

Edited March 18 by Kachikoshi

[Kaninoyama 1,663]

2 hours ago, Katooshu said:

What has he been up to at Isegahama beya? Certainly has grown an amazing pair of traps since joining.

Takerufuji appeared on a variety show recently and said that he had been into bodybuilding for years even before he entered professional sumo.

He also related an episode when, at Isegahama-beya, he was doing some upper body lifts to  continue building his impressive frame, and Terunofuji came up to him and told him flat out: "No more upper body lifting. Focus on your chicken legs." 

Takeru thought he was joking and resumed lifting the next day. Terunofuji exploded with rage and told him "Legs only!" and realized the Yokozuna was serious--he didn't want him to end up suffering the same leg injury woes. 

 

Edited March 18 by Kaninoyama

[Yarimotsu 515]

3 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Kitanowaka brings an excellent body, but I'm really struggling to name a single other part of his sumo that I would consider (close to) makuuchi-average at this point. And that assessment isn't just based on his less than stellar top division record so far; even in juryo I'm frequently surprised how many different ways his opponents are capable of finding to defeat him. It kind of feels like he's been around forever (two straight years in juryo tends to lead to that impression, at least for me), but at the same time it feels like he hasn't slowly worked his way up to makuuchi like, say, Churanoumi, and rather just fluked in via his physical tools. At 23 he's still young, but I'm honestly starting to wonder if the action in makuuchi just might be a little too fast for him. If so, that's something he might not ever overcome.

Kitanowaka's second tournament in Juryo, if my memory serves it was his second bout where he tweaked his thigh. He fought on the injured leg for some days then eventually pulled out. Prior to this his non-yotsu sumo looked more like Onosato's style of fencing the opponent into a diminishing area, and he was pretty good at it. Since the thigh injury it was almost a year before it looked like Kitanowaka was ready to push through his opponent while trusting that left leg again. 

I kind of agree with the assessment that he's lucked in because his technique is compromised somewhat and he needs more bulk to stick around with just the yotsu. At the same time, it's never the whole story.

[WAKATAKE 2,624]

Takerufuji is now tied for 2nd place on the winning streak from Makuuchi debut record at 9 wins. The other wrestlers at 2nd place are the first Sadanoumi and Kaisei. The record belongs to Taiho who had 11 wins from debut

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202403180001498.html

[Akinomaki 39,586]

11 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

Endo

• We had discussed this back in Hatsu already, where demotion looked like a real possibility, and I think most of us agreed that he'd likely retire the moment he goes down to Juryo.

At times where former ozeki go on till jonidan? Why should he? And now he's one of the expectation generals from Kyugetsu as May puppet, with Kagayaki and Onosato - for Ishikawa prefecture and the noto-hanto quake stricken (shinkansen boy Kagayaki in front, with the new one at home) o

 He can't just destroy the hopes of his locals

[Leoben 120]

In the battle of unstoppable traps vs immovable object, traps win the day.

Edited March 19 by Leoben

[sumojoann 1,254]

I love how unflappable Takerufuji is.  He dominated Onosato.  I’m still amazed at how strong he is, especially with those “stick”- like legs, as has previously been mentioned.  

[sumojoann 1,254]

Asanoyama vs Meisei——- Bout of the day!!

[Akinomaki 39,586]

On 18/03/2024 at 00:09, Kaninoyama said:

This has all the makings of a Hoshoryu yusho. 

11 hours ago, Godango said:

Takakeisho yusho. Conditions are perfect. Upper rankers are doing 'fine' at best, lead is held by two newbies, and of course -- he was supposed to lose his rank.

Jinxing is perfect here this basho - Onosato will put him out of contention tomorrow - and with the TKK enhanced last bout extra big kensho pack. Takerufuji only has the half size bout before that vs. Kotonowaka

Edited March 19 by Akinomaki

[Kaninoyama 1,663]

1 minute ago, Akinomaki said:

Jinxing is perfect here this basho - Onosato will put him out of contention tomorrow - and with the TKK enhanced last bout extra big kensho pack. Takerufuji only has the bout before that vs. Kotonowaka

Perfectly happy to be wrong about Hoshoryu!

[Bunbukuchagama 681]

Is Takerufuji our Lord and Saviour? Tune in tomorrow!

 

Edited March 19 by Bunbukuchagama

[junsan 169]

Takerufuji wa uchi ! :)

Kirishima wa soto! :(

[RabidJohn 1,647]

I think if you were to put Takerufuji into a line-up of average Japanese male 20-somethings wearing mawashi, you'd immediately notice he's not the one with skinny legs. 
Yeah, he's lacking the subcutaneous layer of fat on his lower limbs that would give him a naturally lower centre of gravity such as Takakeisho benefits from, but he's not lacking muscle and it's clearly not hampering his progress. He's far from the only successful rikishi that could only put on fat from the waist up, but most of Takerufuji's upper body mass looks to be muscle. 

Now I haven't forgotten Atamifuji coming blazing into makuuchi in similar fashion last year, and I expect Takerufuji's shinnyumaku basho to be a similar close-but-no-cigar experience.
But Atamifuji came in looking like a liability with all the shoulder strapping: Takerufuji looks 100%.

I also believe the how he 'got gud' question is simply down to all the high-level training partners he has access to at Isegahama-beya.
I hope he listens to Terunofuji, though; a bit of extra muscle mass on them legs wouldn't go amiss...

[Akinomaki 39,586]

7 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

But Atamifuji came in looking like a liability with all the shoulder strapping: Takerufuji looks 100%.

except for a light back injury before the basho

[RabidJohn 1,647]

Oh that. I thought his heyamates were just using him to play noughts & crosses (tic tac toe, if you prefer).

---

So Takerufuji gets Kotonowaka, and Onosato gets Takakeisho in the musubi-no-ichiban tomorrow. No step by step climb up sanyaku for these two; it's straight to the top! 

I love it. This is exactly what I wanted to see, if a day or two earlier than I expected.

I'm guessing they expected 2 9-1s when they put the torikumi together, but come what may, Takerufuji is still going to be in the lead at the end of day 11.

Edited March 19 by RabidJohn

[Rocks 1,805]

I'm wondering if Kirishima has this stomach bug that has taken a couple guys out for a day but it's effecting him harder. He doesn't have an obvious injury. He just seems weaker than usual. Unable  to complete his usual throws. 

[Koorifuu 862]

I feel like Kitanowaka's match against Kagayaki was a good example of yesterday's discussion. He was technically sound and quickly put Kagayaki in periculous positions a couple of times, but didn't have the power to shove him out from those positions, so had to toy around with him until he stumbled down.

Edited March 19 by Koorifuu

[dingo 1,133]

Takerufuji vs Onosato ended up more one-sided than I expected. Sure, blasting out opponents in seconds is what Takerufuji seems to do best, just didn't expect it to happen that quickly with Onosato. Takerufuji has another (almost) immovable object tomorrow in Kotonowaka, who also has to protect his shin-ozeki pride. Will be another exciting bout!

As mentioned, Onosato is likely to beat Takakeisho who just needs one more win. But I'm sure Takakeisho knows that one win will not be easy to get, with all the other three ozeki matches still ahead of him. So he won't give the win to Onosato that easily.

Hoshoryu and Kotonowaka can still have hope to be in running for the yusho, but don't have much room to stumble anymore. Unless Takerufuji cleans out his opposition, this could end up another playoff yusho.

[yorikiried by fate 1,987]

12 minutes ago, dingo said:

As mentioned, Onosato is likely to beat Takakeisho [...]

Oh, are you sure? The latter has his lateral game on this basho, meaning he didn't look particularly out-manouvered in his bouts. A full frontal Takakeisho won't be very easy for Onosato.

 

14 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Takerufuji appeared on a variety show recently and said that he had been into bodybuilding for years even before he entered professional sumo.

He also related an episode when, at Isegahama-beya, he was doing some upper body lifts to  continue building his impressive frame, and Terunofuji came up to him and told him flat out: "No more upper body lifting. Focus on your chicken legs." 

Takeru thought he was joking and resumed lifting the next day. Terunofuji exploded with rage and told him "Legs only!" and realized the Yokozuna was serious--he didn't want him to end up suffering the same leg injury woes. 

 

Interesting. I was wondering about the mismatch of his proportions. I'm not concerned about his thighs, but in relation his calfs look so thin. Any medical/fitness experts here with a go at possible implications? Is that, e.g., a problem for his ankles?

Edited March 19 by yorikiried by fate

[Yubinhaad 11,506]

Datenomori goes for a ride on the Urutora carousel...

(Slightly disappointed the kimarite was given as a shitatenage, I thought it could have been called okurigake)

[dingo 1,133]

1 hour ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Oh, are you sure? The latter has his lateral game on this basho, meaning he didn't look particularly out-manouvered in his bouts. A full frontal Takakeisho won't be very easy for Onosato.

To be honest I'm not sure Onosato will win for sure, but I think the likelihood is higher. 

[sumojoann 1,254]

33 minutes ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Oh, are you sure? The latter has his lateral game on this basho, meaning he didn't look particularly out-manouvered in his bouts. A full frontal Takakeisho won't be very easy for Onosato.

 

Interesting. I was wondering about the mismatch of his proportions. I'm not concerned about his thighs, but in relation his calfs look so thin. Any medical/fitness experts here with a go at possible implications? Is that, e.g., a problem for his ankles?

I am not qualified to give a professional answer to the questions above as I have not studied kinesiology (the scientific study of movement of human bodies).  However, I’d like to make a few observations.  

When Terunofuji first reached Makuuchi, I knew he was doomed to have knee problems.  When he was just standing around, he kept his knees in a “locked” position as opposed to a relaxed “flexed” position.  Hakuho, on the other hand, almost always kept his knees in a flexed position.  As a result, Hakuho had very few knee problems, if any, to my knowledge, up until close to the end of his fighting career.  (At that point, as we know, he developed some serious knee problems).  And regarding Terunofuji, I noticed that when he picked up his opponents in the early days, his knees were locked.  For someone weighing close to 400 lbs, it was just a matter of time before his knees would pay the price .  

Takerufuji has an interesting body type.  Fairly large and very powerful on top, legs a little thin in comparison.  But if you take a close look at his body, taken as a whole, the best word I can come up with is SINEWY.  His muscles are very well defined, in his legs as well as his upper body.  It would be interesting to know what his BMI is.