Hokuseiho Out- Hakuho Demoted - Miyagino-beya Closing

[Oskanohana 233]

4 hours ago, Katooshu said:

True, but Isegahama/Terunofuji's foreign recruit Ochil is still there informally I believe, as he waits for Terunofuji to retire. So I doubt he'd be recognized in a merger.

It actually blows my mind that this has been going for more than a year. So if Terunofuji keeps extending his career as he's arguably earned to, he's maiming at the same time his protegee's one. That's a toxic relationship if I ever saw one.

[Godango 972]

14 minutes ago, Oskanohana said:

It actually blows my mind that this has been going for more than a year. So if Terunofuji keeps extending his career as he's arguably earned to, he's maiming at the same time his protegee's one. That's a toxic relationship if I ever saw one.

The other side of the coin is that he's guaranteed a sought-after foreigner slot under a former yokozuna. I can see that being worth waiting for.

[Oskanohana 233]

9 minutes ago, Godango said:

The other side of the coin is that he's guaranteed a sought-after foreigner slot under a former yokozuna. I can see that being worth waiting for.

I count 45 active heyas, 44 with Miyagino gone. Only 28 foreigners including St. Hakuho. Are there that many zealots that won't accept a foreigner in his heya? If he's really proven to be sekitori material in training, shouldn't heyas with a vacant slot be fighting for him, even offering him a kabu? (nudge, nudge, wink, wink). If I were on Terunofuji's shoes and I really liked the guy, I care for him and all that, I'd let him actually compete, maybe protect him from really problematic heyas (I'm not looking at you, Kasugano), the yokozuna will surely know the ones to avoid if so.

I'd somewhat understand the predicament if Terunofuji is really about to retire (which he might be, but a year ago it was the same song, so I'm not a believer). Maybe also if Ochil's been promised a kabu, again wink-wink, and nowhere else they offer him that. But this situation looks bonkers to me.

[Godango 972]

17 minutes ago, Oskanohana said:

I count 45 active heyas, 44 with Miyagino gone. Only 28 foreigners including St. Hakuho. Are there that many zealots that won't accept a foreigner in his heya? If he's really proven to be sekitori material in training, shouldn't heyas with a vacant slot be fighting for him, even offering him a kabu? (nudge, nudge, wink, wink). If I were on Terunofuji's shoes and I really liked the guy, I care for him and all that, I'd let him actually compete, maybe protect him from really problematic heyas (I'm not looking at you, Kasugano), the yokozuna will surely know the ones to avoid if so.

I'd somewhat understand the predicament if Terunofuji is really about to retire (which he might be, but a year ago it was the same song, so I'm not a believer). Maybe also if Ochil's been promised a kabu, again wink-wink, and nowhere else they offer him that. But this situation looks bonkers to me.

Gotta be honest, I was ignorant that there were that many open slots for foreigners. Colour me surprised.

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

29 minutes ago, Oskanohana said:

I count 45 active heyas, 44 with Miyagino gone. Only 28 foreigners including St. Hakuho. Are there that many zealots that won't accept a foreigner in his heya? If he's really proven to be sekitori material in training, shouldn't heyas with a vacant slot be fighting for him, even offering him a kabu? (nudge, nudge, wink, wink). If I were on Terunofuji's shoes and I really liked the guy, I care for him and all that, I'd let him actually compete, maybe protect him from really problematic heyas (I'm not looking at you, Kasugano), the yokozuna will surely know the ones to avoid if so.

I'd somewhat understand the predicament if Terunofuji is really about to retire (which he might be, but a year ago it was the same song, so I'm not a believer). Maybe also if Ochil's been promised a kabu, again wink-wink, and nowhere else they offer him that. But this situation looks bonkers to me.

Aren't we jumping the gun with kabu promises to a guy who is not even a pro yet? 

[Oskanohana 233]

Just now, Bunbukuchagama said:

Aren't we jumping the gun with kabu promises to a guy who is not even a pro yet? 

I was trying to play devil's advocate trying to come up with reasons for Ochil to stay put. No kabu offered actually further expands my view that this is madness.

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

1 minute ago, Oskanohana said:

I was trying to play devil's advocate trying to come up with reasons for Ochil to stay put. No kabu offered actually further expands my view that this is madness.

Well, he can still leave and start his ozumo career elsewhere... I wonder how much of it is sunk cost fallacy at this point. 

[Gurowake 4,008]

There are plenty of oyakata who are not interested in foreign recruits.  I don't know how many of those there are, but I suspect most if not all of the open slots are under such oyakata.

[Asashosakari 18,957]

An interesting development is that so little is known about most of the heya that don't have a foreign rikishi. Back at the end of the early 2000s recruiting boom when the number of foreigners reached 60+, there were only like four stables left without one, and for all of them it was outright known that they wouldn't be trying to recruit because all the shisho in question had publicly voiced their lack of interest in doing so. These days, except for the handful of cases where some recruit is known to be in the pipeline and just not official yet, it's almost completely guesswork what's going on.

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

2 hours ago, Gurowake said:

There are plenty of oyakata who are not interested in foreign recruits.  I don't know how many of those there are, but I suspect most if not all of the open slots are under such oyakata.

If Ochil is as good as advertised, he should manage to find a suitor. I wonder if his unofficial affiliation with Isegahama would make other shisho think taking him would mean pissing Isegahama off... 

[yorikiried by fate 2,001]

2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

An interesting development is that so little is known about most of the heya that don't have a foreign rikishi. Back at the end of the early 2000s recruiting boom when the number of foreigners reached 60+, there were only like four stables left without one, and for all of them it was outright known that they wouldn't be trying to recruit because all the shisho in question had publicly voiced their lack of interest in doing so. These days, except for the handful of cases where some recruit is known to be in the pipeline and just not official yet, it's almost completely guesswork what's going on.

The development has indeed some peculiar shape. After the maximum of 63 foreigners in September 2006 the number decreased to around 55ish before The Great Yaocho Purge. The latter led to a drop to 47 after the TET. From there, it decreased for almost a decade and has now stabilized to around 27ish since late 2020.

How this relates to oyakate attitude is quite opaque. If anything, the younger stablemasters should be more likely to embrace more modern ideas, like entertaining foreign devils. On the other hand, maybe they are a resentful bunch with painful meories of what types pushed them around...

[Jakusotsu 5,866]

Lack of willing and suitable candidates perhaps?

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

1 hour ago, yorikiried by fate said:

After the maximum of 63 foreigners in September 2006 the number decreased to around 55ish before The Great Yaocho Purge. The latter led to a drop to 47 after the TET. From there, it decreased for almost a decade and has now stabilized to around 27ish since late 2020.

Look at all the colours! Those were exciting times.

Makuuchi Banzuke

Result	East	Heya	High	Prev	Rank	West	Heya	High	Prev	Result
15-0 Y	Asashoryu	Takasago	Y	13-2 Y	Y
9-6	Chiyotaikai	Kokonoe	O	10-5	O	Kotooshu	Sadogatake	O	10-5	10-5
10-5	Tochiazuma	Tamanoi	O	9-6	O	Hakuho	Miyagino	O	8-7	0-0-15
					O	Kaio	Tomozuna	O	1-6-8	10-5
8-7	Miyabiyama	Musashigawa	O	9-6	S	Kotomitsuki	Sadogatake	S	8-7	9-6
8-7	Kisenosato	Naruto	K	8-7 S	K	Kokkai	Oitekaze	K	8-7	3-12 ↓
6-9 ↓	Aminishiki	Ajigawa	K	11-4 JG ↑	K	Roho	Otake	K	10-5 ↑	8-7
6-9	Ama	Ajigawa	K	11-4 JK	M1	Iwakiyama	Sakaigawa	K	10-5	2-13
10-5 G	Kotoshogiku	Sadogatake	M1	10-5	M2	Futeno	Dewanoumi	K	9-6	5-10
9-6	Tokitenku	Tokitsukaze	M1	7-8	M3	Dejima	Musashigawa	O	7-8	10-5
6-9	Takekaze	Oguruma	M3	10-5	M4	Kakizoe	Musashigawa	K	9-6	6-9
0-9-6 ↓	Hokutoriki	Hakkaku	S	10-5	M5	Tochinonada	Kasugano	S	7-8	7-8
10-5	Kyokutenho	Oshima	S	6-9	M6	Baruto	Onoe	M1	4-7-4	10-5
2-9-4	Tamanoshima	Kataonami	S	4-11	M7	Kasugao	Kasugayama	M6	8-7	8-7
5-10	Toyozakura	Michinoku	M5	11-4 D ↑	M8	Kakuryu	Izutsu	M8	9-6 ↑	8-7
10-5	Takamisakari	Azumazeki	K	7-8	M9	Asasekiryu	Takasago	K	7-8	10-5
0-2	Kyokushuzan	Oshima	K	6-9	M10	Toyonoshima	Tokitsukaze	M6	4-11	8-7
12-3 JGK	Homasho	Shikoroyama	M11	7-8	M11	Kitazakura	Kitanoumi	M9	10-5 ↑	4-11 ↓
5-10	Ushiomaru	Azumazeki	M10	9-6 ↑	M12	Tosanoumi	Isenoumi	S	7-8	5-10
6-9	Asofuji	Ajigawa	M13	8-7 ↑	M13	Tochinohana	Kasugano	K	7-8	8-7
9-6	Tamakasuga	Kataonami	S	1-14	M14	Hakurozan	Kitanoumi	M2	5-10	7-8
7-8	Otsukasa	Irumagawa	M4	10-5 ↑	M15	Katayama	Onomatsu	M13	8-7 ↑	6-9 ↓

[Tochinofuji 375]

4 hours ago, yorikiried by fate said:

The development has indeed some peculiar shape. After the maximum of 63 foreigners in September 2006 the number decreased to around 55ish before The Great Yaocho Purge. The latter led to a drop to 47 after the TET. From there, it decreased for almost a decade and has now stabilized to around 27ish since late 2020.

How this relates to oyakate attitude is quite opaque. If anything, the younger stablemasters should be more likely to embrace more modern ideas, like entertaining foreign devils. On the other hand, maybe they are a resentful bunch with painful meories of what types pushed them around...

I've seen the acronym TET brought up lately, and while I assume it's the closed door tournament post yaocho fun, what does it stand for? 

[Katooshu 3,176]

May 2011 tournament = technical examination tournament 

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

11 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

May 2011 tournament = technical examination tournament 

What exactly was examined?

[Reonito 1,381]

39 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

What exactly was examined?

where everyone should be ranked in July

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

10 minutes ago, Reonito said:

where everyone should be ranked in July

Oh...

[Godango 972]

They held the technical examination tournament at the Kokugikan as usual, but there was no charge for admission, no Emperor's Cup on the line, and no cash prizes. The bouts still counted towards the wrestlers' lifetime records and as stated the tournament was used to decide the rankings for the following basho.

[Akinomaki 40,023]

The rijikai today decided that the heya closes and Miyagino and the rikishi for the time being (tomen) move to Isegahama-beya. http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2024/03/28/0017480927.shtml

Tomen is temporary, but usually for longer

[Katooshu 3,176]

Trying to get around in Isegahama beya

Edited March 29 by Katooshu

[WAKATAKE 2,644]

21 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

The rijikai today decided that the heya closes and Miyagino and the rikishi for the time being (tomen) move to Isegahama-beya. http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2024/03/28/0017480927.shtml

Tomen is temporary, but usually for longer

Meaning we could be seeing a Kise?

[Akinomaki 40,023]

6 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

Meaning we could be seeing a Kise?

I think it will be less than two years - the NSK gets bashed from all sides for this treatment of the GOAT.

[Leoben 126]

Is it safe to say now that Hakuho isn't being pushed to leave, and that this really is a temporary arrangement with the expectation that he'll reopen his stable after he completes his internship under Isegahama?

[themistyseas 237]

2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

I think it will be less than two years - the NSK gets bashed from all sides for this treatment of the GOAT.

 

1 hour ago, Leoben said:

Is it safe to say now that Hakuho isn't being pushed to leave, and that this really is a temporary arrangement with the expectation that he'll reopen his stable after he completes his internship under Isegahama?

Worth pointing out in the context of both comments that Isegahama himself is only going to be around as shisho for another 14 months, so it surely it won't be much longer - if it's even that long - than that?

Feels like the best case scenario for Hakuho. Some folks have mentioned the real estate investment in his new heya building in Nihombashi having stuttered. Feels like this would be the ideal time to get the building work done, although I know it's a big bet to invest in a project which may or may not yet come to fruition.