Hokuseiho Out- Hakuho Demoted - Miyagino-beya Closing

[fwuzzle23 66]

1 hour ago, Leoben said:

Is it safe to say now that Hakuho isn't being pushed to leave, and that this really is a temporary arrangement with the expectation that he'll reopen his stable after he completes his internship under Isegahama?

It was probably "safe" to say that when they didn't demand his resignation over this at the same time as they (would have) demanded Hokuseiho's resignation. But good luck convincing some of the conspiracy theorists, he could be fully independent again and they'll still insist that the NSK's busy cooking up another scheme to get rid of him, because the NSK are moustache-twirling villains that are completely unable to just fire someone or tell them to quit.

[Kintamayama 45,495]

Sadogatake, the new PR man, says this:

`I received a report from Asakayama Oyakata the representative of Isegahama Ichimon, that from April onwards, all members of  Miyagino-beya will be "looked after" by Isegahama beya. The Miyagino rikishi will mount the dohyo as Isegahama beya rikishi, so there will be no matches between rikishi from both heya for the time being. This move is so that Miyagino Oyakata  can be educated on how to run a heya and what the responsibilities of a Shisho and an oyakata are.. Asakayama and Isegahama are assuming responsibility for the heya. We don't know for how long, but both Oyakatas will be providing us with progress reports after every basho. I think bringing everyone over to one place instead of splitting them up is truly the best way to go for the rikishis' and the Oyakata's future. It was all done carefully step by step. It's not like we've been punishing them again and again, heavy or light. I hope after receiving some guidance from Isegahama Oyakata, Miyagino beya will flourish again!"

[Kintamayama 45,495]

Questions are being raised by the press.

• Isegahama is 64, retires next year so how long can he be a mentor with great experience? Isegahama himself was involved in two scandals in the past and had to resign twice as a riji. They are saying the final decision was forced and not really the best one due to a few circumstances:
• "Come on, man up, this is a great chance to raise the worth of your kabu!" said some Oyakata, in trying to convince Asakayama to take Miyagino in.. "It's all up to KaioU san!" they added. But he refused. Asakayama beya having  a few rikishi (9) and only one with sekitori experience and the the small heya physically  and an influx of 20 rikishi.. No way.
• There was talk of a merger with Ooshima beya, but the Kyokai vetoed it. "Probably because they're both Mongolians.." murmured people.

[rhyen 1,846]

8 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Questions are being raised by the press.

• Isegahama is 64, retires next year so how long can he be a mentor with great experience? Isegahama himself was involved in two scandals in the past and had to resign twice as a riji. They are saying the final decision was forced and not really the best one due to a few circumstances:
• "Come on, man up, this is a great chance to raise the worth of your kabu!" said some Oyakata, in trying to convince Asakayama to take Miyagino in.. "It's all up to KaioU san!" they added. But he refused. Asakayama beya having  a few rikishi (9) and only one with sekitori experience and the the small heya physically  and an influx of 20 rikishi.. No way.
• There was talk of a merger with Ooshima beya, but the Kyokai vetoed it. "Probably because they're both Mongolians.." murmured people.

The ultimate conspiracy theory is that they hope that putting two slow burning embers inside the same fire pit will cause a huge firestorm enabling NSK to get rid of 2 for 1. 

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,276]

If they wanted to get rid of him I guess they’d move him to Nishonoseki beya far from his beloved Tokyo

Edited March 28, 2024 by Tsuchinoninjin

[LLCoolKay 24]

I guess if nothing else, the training for the combined heya will be of the highest quality. They have a small army of sekitori.

[RabidJohn 1,853]

I can't help feeling this could be a massive win for the remaining Miyagino rikishi. They get some of the best training partners available, but for the purpose of the torikumi they're regarded as heya mates and won't face each other.

That's a very optimistic view, of course. There are some major question marks surrounding this 'solution'.

[Sumo Spiffy 579]

1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

I can't help feeling this could be a massive win for the remaining Miyagino rikishi. They get some of the best training partners available, but for the purpose of the torikumi they're regarded as heya mates and won't face each other.

That's a very optimistic view, of course. There are some major question marks surrounding this 'solution'.

There were going to be major question marks surrounding anything they did, but I agree this looks pretty good for the Miyagino crew, especially if Teru is willing to share his knowledge with them as much as he does with the Isegahama team. Not having to face them doesn't matter that much, though; if Takarafuji goes back to makuuchi, as seems likely to happen, then there will be zero Miyagino in makuuchi and zero Isegahama in juryo. 

[Asashosakari 19,647]

34 minutes ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

There were going to be major question marks surrounding anything they did, but I agree this looks pretty good for the Miyagino crew, especially if Teru is willing to share his knowledge with them as much as he does with the Isegahama team. Not having to face them doesn't matter that much, though; if Takarafuji goes back to makuuchi, as seems likely to happen, then there will be zero Miyagino in makuuchi and zero Isegahama in juryo. 

Yeah, the most relevant matchup that will actually be prevented from happening for the next tournament is arguably just Satorufuji vs Tenshoho somewhere around Ms10. And even going forward a few basho, I doubt anyone will be too fussed about not getting to see Hakuoho against Takarafuji and Nishikifuji. Anything else just doesn't matter until Hakuoho actually gets back to at least the mid-maegashira ranks. (The rest of the now-former Miyagino-beya might well end up not having any sekitori relevance altogether until Asahifuji has to hand over the reins in 14 months.)

Edited March 28, 2024 by Asashosakari

[Yamanashi 3,903]

5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Questions are being raised by the press.

• Isegahama is 64, retires next year so how long can he be a mentor with great experience? Isegahama himself was involved in two scandals in the past and had to resign twice as a riji. They are saying the final decision was forced and not really the best one due to a few circumstances:
• "Come on, man up, this is a great chance to raise the worth of your kabu!" said some Oyakata, in trying to convince Asakayama to take Miyagino in.. "It's all up to KaioU san!" they added. But he refused. Asakayama beya having  a few rikishi (9) and only one with sekitori experience and the the small heya physically  and an influx of 20 rikishi.. No way.
• There was talk of a merger with Ooshima beya, but the Kyokai vetoed it. "Probably because they're both Mongolians.." murmured people.

If they are going to insist on the rigid Ichimon system, these logistical problems are going to be worse than they would be otherwise.

[Gurowake 4,100]

13 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

If they are going to insist on the rigid Ichimon system, these logistical problems are going to be worse than they would be otherwise.

Are you suggesting that people from House Griffyndor move to House Slytherin?

[Asashosakari 19,647]

I'm thinking back to the investigation which, from the summaries that were released to the press, sure sounded like basically every Miyagino-beya member was questioned and they were all happy to tell on Hokuseiho - the only one called out for trying to impede the investigation was Miyagino himself, after all - even though they had to know that it would land their shisho in hot water. Long-term poll: Assuming Miyagino-beya actually gets reconstituted, how many of its rikishi will decide to retire rather than move back there, and/or stay in Isegahama-beya in case they're somehow given the choice?

[Akinomaki 40,753]

28 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Assuming Miyagino-beya actually gets reconstituted, how many of its rikishi will decide to retire rather than move back there, and/or stay in Isegahama-beya in case they're somehow given the choice? 

Those who want to retire likely will do so in the next weeks or months. If we assume that in 14 months Terunofuji takes over the heya, that would be the proper time to split the heya again. It is unlikely that he'll be able to "scout" some among the Miyagino boys, who joined solely because of Hakuho. It could also turn out the other way round: more want to leave the new Isegehama with Hakuho than came with him. Especially  interesting will be those who get scouted within the time the heya are together.

[Asashosakari 19,647]

47 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Those who want to retire likely will do so in the next weeks or months. If we assume that in 14 months Terunofuji takes over the heya, that would be the proper time to split the heya again. It is unlikely that he'll be able to "scout" some among the Miyagino boys, who joined solely because of Hakuho. It could also turn out the other way round: more want to leave the new Isegehama with Hakuho than came with him. Especially  interesting will be those who get scouted within the time the heya are together.

I dunno, I'm finding it very hard to believe that there aren't any Miyagino rikishi who are disillusioned with Hakuho at this point; as they say, never meet your heroes. Getting a look at an actually well-oiled heya machine like Isegahama's could well be eye-opening to some.

Edited March 28, 2024 by Asashosakari

[Jakusotsu 6,045]

39 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

I dunno, I'm finding it very hard to believe that there aren't any Miyagino rikishi who are disillusioned with Hakuho at this point; as they say, never meet your heroes. Getting a look at an actually well-oiled heya machine like Isegahama's could well be eye-opening to some.

But then again, there's no guarantee it will run just as smoothly under the aegis of Terunofuji (...if he really takes the helm).

[Asashosakari 19,647]

19 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

But then again, there's no guarantee it will run just as smoothly under the aegis of Terunofuji (...if he really takes the helm).

Sure, that's up in the air, but I have a feeling that there's going to be a lot more continuity between Asahifuji and his successor (whether that's Terunofuji, Homarefuji, Aminishiki, or even, I dunno, Takarafuji) than there was between Chikubayama and Hakuho, at least while Asahifuji is still going to be around as sanyo.

Edited March 28, 2024 by Asashosakari

[incognito 2]

2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

I dunno, I'm finding it very hard to believe that there aren't any Miyagino rikishi who are disillusioned with Hakuho at this point; as they say, never meet your heroes. Getting a look at an actually well-oiled heya machine like Isegahama's could well be eye-opening to some.

My mind is immediately drawn to Hakuho having them use electric poles for teppo and do crossfit with sand bags... Unless all heya are this archaic with their training methods.

I am curious how this works for Hakuho financially. Will he or Isegahama receive payment for his rikishi? Presumably Isegahama will, so is Hakuho going to have to close his heya's doors? Yea he's wealthy af, but paying for an empty stable for months, potentially years seems ridiculous. But the location is also symbolic, so I don't see him selling it either

Edited March 28, 2024 by incognito
additional thought

[Akinomaki 40,753]

The rikishi returned to the heya today from Osaka - for a last day?

oo o  o oo

new PR top Sadogatake explaining

o

[Seiyashi 4,108]

Having had some time to come to terms with it, I agree moving in with Isegahama is the best option once having an independent Miyagino wasn't temporarily acceptable. And the training should be something special as well. Even if Terunofuji doesn't deign to coach the Miyagino rikishi, having Takerufuji around and a bunch of rikishi with sekitori experience surely has to count for something. If this results in a large jump up the banzuke for all the Miyagino boys, I won't be complaining.

[Kaninoyama 1,817]

The whole situation remains bizarre. Why does Hakuho alone of all the new freshly minted oyakata require undergoing this special training in "how to be a good oyakata"?  

Notwithstanding the Hokuseiho situation, was he alone judged to be so incompetent that this was deemed necessary?

Just seems like either punish him like previous oyakata who have transgressed and let run his heya, or boot him out and be done with it.

Maybe this oyakata rehab project will work out just fine, but color me skeptical. 

[rhyen 1,846]

Anyone want to go investigate during May honbasho?

[Kintamayama 45,495]

1 hour ago, Kaninoyama said:

The whole situation remains bizarre. Why does Hakuho alone of all the new freshly minted oyakata require undergoing this special training in "how to be a good oyakata"?  

 

First of all, none of the other freshly minted Oyakata who own a stable faced any sort of internal scandal, as far as we know, so they are deemed to be doing their job acceptably. Why Hakuhou? For the same reason he alone was forced to sign that "I'll be a good boy Oyakata or get thrown out" contract with the Kyokai. The answer is the Kyokai bigwigs do not count on him to do what's "right" in their eyes. So we roll our eyes, and Hakuhou lets his protégé run amuck. And "he was very busy doing Kyokai work so he couldn't be around much" does not cut it. 

[Kaninoyama 1,817]

3 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

First of all, none of the other freshly minted Oyakata who own a stable faced any sort of internal scandal, as far as we know, so they are deemed to be doing their job acceptably.

Are you sure about that? 

On 31/01/2019 at 19:29, Kintamayama said:

Well, it was a quiet three weeks. A Sandanme rikishi from Naruto beya (ex-Kotooushuu's heya) has been repeatedly bullying  a minor deshi at the heya. The new Compliance Committee will learn all the facts and convene on February 8th, questioning the Oyakata and others involved. According to the Kyokai, the 20 year old rikishi started bullying the young rikishi last September because "he wasn't doing his job properly", using a judo stranglehold, causing the kid to faint. At another time  he told another young guy to strangle him as well, causing him to faint. This has happened 10 times till January. It could be one of three-The Bulgarian Torakiou, Sumidagawa or Anzai.

 

 

[Akinomaki 40,753]

the first job of the new PR face was to explain the rijikai decision to close down the heya

o

the list of members to move, without the new recruits in maezumo: Ono and Nikkan doesn't know of him being Seihakuho

o

4 urakata

9 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The rikishi returned to the heya today from Osaka

Nikkan sp. likes to post a detailed list of pics - after the retirements now those returning to (and soon leaving) Miyagino-beya

Hakuoho

o

Detachi and Tenshoho

o

Otani

o

Matsui

o

Senho - it shows that Nikkan doesn't know of it, because they call Seihakuho still Demi (in the back)

o

Kiho (kyujo) - apparently went to Osaka anyway

o

Kenyu

o

Onokura

o

Ishii

o

The other kyujo rikishi were either still there or maybe not if they'll retire: Enho, Raiho and later Chikuba

Officially retired is only Kurokage, but several of those not in the pics may be about to quit as well: we know of Hokaho, then there's Takemaru, Takabaho, Nishikiori - and Ono

Edited March 29, 2024 by Akinomaki

[Kintamayama 45,495]

5 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Are you sure about that? 

 

 

I'm pretty sure there are things happening with the other freshly minted Oyakata as well, but they are not Hakuhou, none of them, with the baggage he brought with him while active. None of them signed an NDN. So he is looked at extra closely, is all I'm saying.

Edited March 29, 2024 by Kintamayama