Tigerboy1966 1,472 Posted May 27, 2024 Just to say that Kisenosato was younger that Onosato when he first made sekiwake. Back in March 2009 the yokozuna were Asashoryu and Hakuho. The rest of the sanyaku included Kotooshu, Baruto, Chiyotaikai, Kaio, Harumafuji and Goeido... oh and Kakuryu was at m1. So it isn't a huge surprise that it took him a long time to take the last 2 steps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yamanashi 3,903 Posted May 27, 2024 I don't see how comparisons between Kisenosato and Onosato are valid. Hagiwara Yutaka started in Maezumo at the age of 15. Nakamura Daiki went through University Sumo and already ranked Ms10 when he joined at age 23. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RabidJohn 1,853 Posted May 27, 2024 1 hour ago, Yamanashi said: I don't see how comparisons between Kisenosato and Onosato are valid. Hagiwara Yutaka started in Maezumo at the age of 15. Nakamura Daiki went through University Sumo and already ranked Ms10 when he joined at age 23. You just compared them to highlight the differences, but get your point that there are few if any parallels between their career trajectories. Nishonoseki won't be the first shisho to get a deshi more successful than he was, which is what Onosato looks like right now. 'More successful' isn't the same as 'more talented', btw. Onosato should be more successful simply because he's coming into a power vacuum: his boss faced a tougher class of rikishi already established above him. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wakawakawaka 157 Posted May 27, 2024 3 hours ago, I am the Yokozuna said: On the other hand, I still cannot understand where sumo Kotozakura excels at. He excels at being rather immobile. Pushers have a hard time moving him, and he doesn't move himself enough to overcommit and slip up against chaos agents. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katooshu 3,325 Posted May 27, 2024 (edited) Kotozakura isn't great at anything but is good at many things, and has moves for nearly every type of situation. He can push or yori opponents out, counter hard chargers with a throw or pull Houdini moves against the tawara, win long matches or quick ones. I'm not sure any active rikishi is more well-rounded than him. Edited May 27, 2024 by Katooshu 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wakawakawaka 157 Posted May 27, 2024 Just did a quick tally of Koto(nowaka/zakura)'s matches since becoming Sanyaku. My categories are surely highly subjective, but nevertheless... 'Pushers' (Onosho/Hokutofuji/etc.) 14-7 'Thrusters' (Daiesho/Abi/etc.) 26-8 'Yotsu' (Wakamotoharu/Hoshoryu/etc.) 20-21 'Chaos agents' (Midorifuji/Ura/etc.) 23-9 'Mixed style' (Takayasu/etc.) 6-1 7 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hakuho Oyakata 6 Posted May 27, 2024 5 hours ago, I am the Yokozuna said: Really impressed by Onosato and what he has achieved so far. Tremendous a seventh basho and a yusho. A rightful ozeki and who else what next for him. On the other hand, I still cannot understand where sumo Kotozakura excels at. Economy of force, fortuitous timing and obviously the discreet cheerleading from some of the NSK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reonito 1,518 Posted May 27, 2024 1 hour ago, Wakawakawaka said: 'Yotsu' (Wakamotoharu/Hoshoryu/etc.) 20-21 And this might reflect the higher caliber of guys currently in that category... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yangnomazuma 79 Posted May 27, 2024 On 26/05/2024 at 06:44, RabidJohn said: Maybe I'm weird but I've been enjoying this extended period of no really dominant rikishi; even Terunofuji has only managed 14-1 twice and 15-0 once in his whole career. I like the unpredictability. Onosato may or may not be the one to bring it all to an end. We'll see. Regardless, hearty congratulations to Onosato on a well-earned hatsu yusho - and to Nishonoseki-san, not least for his quick work on the hinkaku front; the very muted 'Yes!' reaction on the dohyo was a big improvement over day 1. Getting a bit emotional at the ringside (while your dad's completely in bits in the audience) is perfectly acceptable, IMO. At 10-5 and 11-4J respectively, Hoshoryu and Kotozakura put up ozeki numbers, so I can't really complain. I'm immensely disappointed about Kirishima losing his rank, though. I'm in your boat. At the end of the day, for me, Sumo is entertainment. I don't understand how having the yusho decided after 13 or 14 days is somehow preferable for some of y'all. I want competitive basho where there are several in the hunt going into the final two days. I want ENTROPY. Regardless, there was plenty of good sumo to be seen. Yes there was some poor sumo displayed, but good sumo too. Much rather have a basho like this than one dominant guy running away with it all the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bettega 431 Posted May 27, 2024 I have seen many basho with very poor sumo. I prefer two or three dominant rikishi, but presenting great sumo. We don’t have a strong and consistent Yokozuna since 2019? 2018? Five or six years? Since the beginning of Hakuho’s decline. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 770 Posted May 28, 2024 7 hours ago, Wakawakawaka said: He excels at being rather immobile. Pushers have a hard time moving him, and he doesn't move himself enough to overcommit and slip up against chaos agents. What was the first rule of kotodynamics? Kotozakura cannot be moved, but moving Kotozakura cannot stop. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 770 Posted May 28, 2024 5 hours ago, Reonito said: And this might reflect the higher caliber of guys currently in that category... I bet Terunofuji is also in this category. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tochinofuji 387 Posted May 28, 2024 10 hours ago, Wakawakawaka said: Just did a quick tally of Koto(nowaka/zakura)'s matches since becoming Sanyaku. My categories are surely highly subjective, but nevertheless... 'Pushers' (Onosho/Hokutofuji/etc.) 14-7 'Thrusters' (Daiesho/Abi/etc.) 26-8 'Yotsu' (Wakamotoharu/Hoshoryu/etc.) 20-21 'Chaos agents' (Midorifuji/Ura/etc.) 23-9 'Mixed style' (Takayasu/etc.) 6-1 I won't lie, the "chaos agents" category might be one of the best identifications I have ever seen of a sumo style. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WAKATAKE 2,671 Posted May 28, 2024 12 hours ago, Wakawakawaka said: Just did a quick tally of Koto(nowaka/zakura)'s matches since becoming Sanyaku. My categories are surely highly subjective, but nevertheless... 'Pushers' (Onosho/Hokutofuji/etc.) 14-7 'Thrusters' (Daiesho/Abi/etc.) 26-8 'Yotsu' (Wakamotoharu/Hoshoryu/etc.) 20-21 'Chaos agents' (Midorifuji/Ura/etc.) 23-9 'Mixed style' (Takayasu/etc.) 6-1 This is almost like identifying different disciplines of fighting. Wrestling, judo, jiujutsu, karate, tae kwon do, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
I am the Yokozuna 194 Posted May 28, 2024 @Wakawakawaka on my eye he also struggles with yotsu wrestlers, but I never seen the numbers. Thanks for compiling such a list. I am not saying he is not good, but it is very hard for me at least to identify what type of rikishi he is. Houdini at the tawara is a great description. He had a good tournament and quite possibly could end up being a yokozuna at some point. @bettega I prefer unpredictability and having a senshuraku with several rikishi vying for the tournament. So last 5-6 years have been really great for me in that regard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benihana 1,937 Posted July 17, 2024 (edited) On 27/05/2024 at 19:05, Wakawakawaka said: 'Chaos agents' (Midorifuji/Ura/etc.) 23-9 I'm 100% convinced, Ura is a follower of Slaanesh. The colour of the mawashi, the obvious pleasure when wreaking havoc. Dead giveaways, why haven't i seen it ealier? Send in the Inquisition and the Space Marines! Edited July 17, 2024 by Benihana 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoshotakamoto 259 Posted December 27, 2024 On 24/05/2024 at 20:00, Asashosakari said: And the meta level, forgetting why you'd forgotten them. 10 years from now, somebody here will be browsing old banzuke, come across the names of the likes of Churanoumi or Mitoryu and fondly go, "oh yeah, I remember those guys!", failing to also remember how little they actually cared about them at the time. Inasmuch as there's any qualitative difference to the past in lower makuuchi at all, it's almost certainly just that more guys are competing injured more often now and looking worse as a result. With some "I don't like the way sumo matches are mostly won nowadays, so these guys must be worse" nostalgia-pretending-to-be-analysis sprinkled on top of it. hey now, I remember how much I didn't care about Churanoumi. I even posted him as the textbook example of me not caring a year or two back and it sent his career soaring to new heights. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yamanashi 3,903 Posted December 27, 2024 15 hours ago, Hoshotakamoto said: hey now, I remember how much I didn't care about Churanoumi. I even posted him as the textbook example of me not caring a year or two back and it sent his career soaring to new heights. Hey, a guy named Shoma Akua asked me for your contact info. He says he wants you to diss him publicly. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoshotakamoto 259 Posted December 27, 2024 (edited) 5 hours ago, Yamanashi said: Hey, a guy named Shoma Akua asked me for your contact info. He says he wants you to diss him publicly. the guy whose mode of losing is to fall backwards off the dohyo and slingshot the winner into the third row? hate that guy Edited December 27, 2024 by Hoshotakamoto 1 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
