Kyushu 2024 discussion (results)

[Koorifuu 1,003]

To be fair, Oshoumi has always looked like he was able to produce this level of performance, but has somehow kept losing bouts he looked like he should've won.

[hakutorizakura 629]

Ouch. Monster throw from Hosh there, beautiful reversal. Not the armbreaker-type kotenage we usually see from Tamawashi, but still looks painful. Someone less flexible than WTK would probably get his arm ripped off. 

[Gurowake 4,088]

Anyone know what the deal with Wakaikari is this basho?  He's not faced anyone he hasn't faced before, and he was a combined 3-2 against them in prior bouts, yet he's dropped all his actual matches and got his only shiroboshi this basho so far with a fusen win.  I guess it might be just getting a bit unlucky compared to the last few basho.  At least he has a chance for a KK still unlike if he had dropped 4 matches in Makushita, though he's going to start facing generally harder competition as the basho wears on as he's already fought most of the bottom of the division, and rikishi he likely hasn't faced yet, like his next opponent Fujiseiun.

Edited November 14, 2024 by Gurowake

[Koorifuu 1,003]

Alright, I'll be the one to bring it up. Tsurugisho's petulant hakuyozan on Hakuyozan felt personal. The man's not making a lot of friends, is he?

[Katooshu 3,251]

A well deserved late push if there ever was one.

[Asashosakari 19,426]

Watching it in real time I thought it was premeditated, but after the slowmo replay I wondered if it was a spur of the moment reaction to Hakuyozan needlessly having his hand in Tsurugisho's face while getting moved out.

[Akinomaki 40,622]

After the loss yesterday, Onosato today switched to the new 1&only kesho mawashi and won again

o

[Yamanashi 3,865]

Notes on a few day 5 Juryo bouts:

1) Nabatame and Wakaikari conked pretty hard at the tachiai; Wakaikari was reeling a little when Nabatame hit him with a regular thrust that hit right on the button and sent Wakaikari down like a sack of cement.

2) Aonishiki played the ol' Loose Mawashi Band on Oshoumi; at the end it came down to Oshoumi hitting the throw first and Aonishiki slipping through his counterthrow.

3) Onosho looks shot.  He's done.  He's got more tape than Ampex, on both knees, ankles, arm ... If he goes kyujo tomorrow it will be 0-4-11, 1-4-10, 1-4-10 his last three basho.  Does he have a kabu waiting?

4) Tsurugisho looked pretty p*ssed right after the shove at the end of his match.  Checking the db, the previous match between them was day 14 of Aki 2024.  In that match, Hakuyozan had Tsurugisho trapped along the tawara, running sideways. Hakuyozan pushed him out, then followed him for three more steps still pushing while Tsurugisho was out.  Nothing diabolical, but Tsurugisho didn't like it -- his bow was a 2 mm nod of the head and a scowl.

[rhyen 1,842]

On 13/11/2024 at 02:23, RaeucherLax said:

Yup, watched it there on Sunday, thx! 

Also available, 

English sub dosukoi sumo salon back catalog (limited time)

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/shows/dosukoi/
 

Grand sumo legends

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/shows/sumo-legends/
 

 

[rhyen 1,842]

Today’s best attendee is the lady wearing the minions t-shirt with (in Japanese) 69th yokozuna, Hakuho.

[Jakusotsu 5,982]

She's been wearing it for a while...

[Kaninoyama 1,797]

Terrible fall by Mitakeumi. Wheeled away on a stretcher. Initial report is that he injured the left shoulder & the side of his lower back. 

Edited November 15, 2024 by Kaninoyama

[Akoushousan 8]

Luck is with Hoshoryu --- and it can be a big asset for someone fixated on winning the basho (which he mentioned a number of times during the runup).

Incomprehensible what happened to Mitakeumi.

Kirishima really tried today, but did he sprain his ankle in the process?

 

 

[Kaninoyama 1,797]

58 minutes ago, Akoushousan said:

Luck is with Hoshoryu --- and it can be a big asset for someone fixated on winning the basho (which he mentioned a number of times during the runup).

 

 

Luck--and a Hakuho-like knack for pulling victory from the jaws of defeat at the edge of the dohyo. 

[dingo 1,265]

Is Onokatsu on the way to another makujiri yusho? The challenge at his rank is obviously too easy for him so they should feed him to some joi rikishi soon.

What was that Shodai today? Seems like someone actually told him about this fabled thing called tachiai and he decided to try it for a change. Wakamotoharu was probably as surprised as myself and didn't have time to react.

Maybe I'm not pedantic enough, but for me Atamifuji should've been the winner. His toe touched at the same time when Hoshoryu's body was in the air and 90% out of the dohyo plane. If that's not dead body then I don't know what is. Hoshoryu got super lucky today. 

Great persistence by Wakatakakage, but Onosato was the architect of his own demise with that instinctive pull. Strange cause that's not really characteristic of his sumo, but perhaps last basho's defeat was on his mind and people sometimes do uncharacteristic things in these kind of situations. Also, I don't understand the talk about him getting a zensho, like in the NHK sumo preview. In my mind Onosato is not at the moment capable of zensho cause his sumo is too one-sided and lacks reactivity.

By the end of the day Hoshoryu is still firmly in the driver's seat, but Kotozakura has been steadying his sumo and is looking better day by day.

Edited November 15, 2024 by dingo
Spelling

[The Fat Cyclist 31]

1 minute ago, dingo said:

Maybe I'm not pedantic enough, but for me Atamifuji should've been the winner. His toe touched at the same time when Hoshoryu's body was in the are and 90% out of the dohyo plane. If that's not dead body the I don't know what is. Hoshoryu got super lucky today. 

 

I was very surprised that was not a torinaoshi. I wonder how they were doing for time.

 

[RabidJohn 1,795]

First, as a former first responder when I was a coal miner, I was impressed by the way they dealt with Mitakeumi today.
Properly immobilised with enough hands to do the job safely.
Now they just need to educate the ringside rikishi to get out of the way without being told, rather than sitting there looking dumb. Looking at you, Oho.

I can well understand Atamifuji's Muttley-style muttering as he headed back up the hanamichi. That was a questionable decision.
I mean, props to the gyoji for even spotting his toes going out, but I'd have added more weight to Hoshoryu being unrecoverable.
Anyway, Hoshoryu did not win today: Atamifuji lost. That's not an opinion, it's what isamiashi means.

I'm inclined to be forgiving of Onosato's loss today, and not only because Wakatakakage is a great rikishi. 
Onosato is so good and, with the usual caveats about health and injury, looks destined for greatness, but that chon-mage just screams 'Rookie'.
We should expect some rookie mistakes for a while yet.

Edited November 15, 2024 by RabidJohn

[Yarimotsu 584]

My understanding of the so-called "dead body" has always been that it can only be called into question when the rikishi's feet have left the dohyo. Hoshoryu's foot clearly remains grounded while Atamifuji steps out. I'm more surprised to see nobody at least questioning if Kotoshoho was hard done by in not seeing a discussion, but perhaps that's out of respect for the injured.

Clearly Hoshoryu took offense from everyone saying how good he looked winning on the front foot and decided he would show us he can also win as far back on the back foot as possible.

I'm really enjoying the basho so far.

[Gurowake 4,088]

If the kimarite was isamiashi, then clearly Hoshoryu had no part in causing Atamifuji's step out, and thus there can't be a decision as to whether Hoshoryu forced Atamifuji into that position before his own position was unrecoverable.  You can't step out before the opponent lands unless it was the opponent that made you step out, at which point they can judge it using the dead body guidelines (I hesitate to call them rules) and potentially call for a torinaoshi.  But Atamifuji stepping out on his own before Hoshoryu had actually lost according to the normal rules means that Atamifuji must be given the loss.

[Benevolance 2,501]

My favorite example of this was years ago in Sandanme when Orora picked up this little kid, carried him to the edge but lost track of the tawara, and stepped out before putting the fellow down. 

[Octofuji 357]

26 minutes ago, Benevolance said:

My favorite example of this was years ago in Sandanme when Orora picked up this little kid, carried him to the edge but lost track of the tawara, and stepped out before putting the fellow down. 

I'm enjoying this image, but isn't that one of the clearer cases of the dead body "guidelines"? Or at least according to this

https://web.archive.org/web/20190820150014/http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0005918769

(Linked from Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shini-tai)

Looking at Orora's kimarite he lost by isamiashi four times which is pretty high, it must be pretty hard when you can't see your feet.

[Koorifuu 1,003]

I'm pretty sure someone did that on maezumo a few years ago and was still given the win. Someone in here commented on how it was an good demonstration as to why rules shouldn't be interpreted literally and that the winner was clear to everyone.

[Jakusotsu 5,982]

Urban legend has it that it's allowed to carry your opponent out to avoid injury.

[Asojima 2,874]

5 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Urban legend has it that it's allowed to carry your opponent out to avoid injury.

If I remember correctly, the carry must include a certain number of steps.  A lift at the edge with a step out will not cut it.

[Oskanohana 261]

I've seen tectonic plates move faster than Mitoryu's last minute sidestep against Hakuyozan and both men's subsequent reactions. Love me some tectonic clashes.