Kyushu 2024 discussion (results)

[RabidJohn 1,732]

Did Oshoma do something to his foot?
The way he just fell over looked odd.

[MrGrumpyGills 123]

11 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

I wonder if we'll see the same with Endo when the time comes? 

Who knows :)
By the way, does he have a kabu? I'm not really up to date with these.

[dingo 1,222]

A somewhat lucky escape by Takerufuji as he got into an interesting situation where he didn't manage to effectively employ his usual tactics to push out Sadanoumi, and let his opponent get a belt grip. However Sadanoumi's legs didn't keep up with the rest of his body, otherwise I believe he could've forced Takerufuji out.

Experience won as in-form Takarafuji exploited Onokatsu's forward lean and dropped him out of the immediate yusho race. Still 6 days to go so plenty of time for Onokatsu to catch up, or drop further behind.

For a moment I thought Mitakeumi had miraculously recovered as he almost sent out Ichiyamamoto, but I guess that was just a mirage as he was quickly stopped and too weak to offer much resistance. Quite sad to see him needing help to get down from the dohyo. 

Very clever slap from Tobizaru to get Ura off balance. Maybe even more effective than he expected. Ura is not succeeding in getting his sumo to work. Is it me or does he seem to be more controlled and less chaotic this basho, but it's not working. 

That was a weird second matta call in Wakatakakage vs Shodai. I thought the timing was pretty good and Shodai was visibly annoyed as he got a good tachiai by his own standard. His third attempt was again worse and cost his the bout.

Wow, Hoshoryu has a penchant for dramatic throws this basho. Is he trying to set a personal record or something? Another rikishi flung down, another tick on the bedroom wall. With both Kotozakura and Onosato looking solid as well it really seems between those three at the moment with Takerufuji as the dark horse. 

[Sue 494]

Dear Mita:

Stop trying to make KK happen. It's not going to happen.

Love and kisses, Sue

[Koorifuu 924]

1 hour ago, MrGrumpyGills said:

Who knows :)
By the way, does he have a kabu? I'm not really up to date with these.

He does, and has had for a long time, as far as I remember. Kitajin.

[MrGrumpyGills 123]

2 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

He does, and has had for a long time, as far as I remember. Kitajin.

Thank you so much for the info!

[DonKordylone 9]

When Hoshoryu won his First tournament it seemed like he did it because no one else was able, he wasn’t dominating the tournament, now he looks like he is marching forward for his yusho. It of course can change, he has to beat strong Takanosho and in form Kotozakura - who I still don’t have a belief as a yusho winner.

[Jakusotsu 5,892]

2 hours ago, dingo said:

That was a weird second matta call in Wakatakakage vs Shodai. I thought the timing was pretty good and Shodai was visibly annoyed as he got a good tachiai by his own standard. His third attempt was again worse and cost his the bout.

Classic Konosuke reappearing again. Perhaps he was thrown back by the shinpan-cho's calling the first misattempt.

[Yamanashi 3,793]

Day 9, Juryo, Oshoumi has significant taping on his left shoulder.  Against Fujiseiun, he hits an HNH and does a "so, anyway" look like a real veteran.  9-0.

Tsurugisho (8-1) is next up for him; I doubt there will be a rare zensho Yusho this basho, but Oshoumi is safe in Juryo for a couple of basho, and Tsurugisho might get back to Makuuchi soon.

Chiyomaru is 0-9 and looks worse than Onosho.

[Koorifuu 924]

41 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Day 9, Juryo, Oshoumi has significant taping on his left shoulder.  Against Fujiseiun, he hits an HNH and does a "so, anyway" look like a real veteran.  9-0.

Tsurugisho (8-1) is next up for him; I doubt there will be a rare zensho Yusho this basho, but Oshoumi is safe in Juryo for a couple of basho, and Tsurugisho might get back to Makuuchi soon.

Chiyomaru is 0-9 and looks worse than Onosho.

Oh no.

[Octofuji 350]

6 hours ago, DonKordylone said:

When Hoshoryu won his First tournament it seemed like he did it because no one else was able, he wasn’t dominating the tournament, now he looks like he is marching forward for his yusho. It of course can change, he has to beat strong Takanosho and in form Kotozakura - who I still don’t have a belief as a yusho winner.

Don't forget Abi, he's looking as good as when he won the yusho

[Tetsuoka 5]

Onosato looks somehow concerned, I think he's feeling the pressure of an entire nation waiting for a Japanese Yokozuna.

[Sumo Spiffy 550]

17 hours ago, dingo said:

Very clever slap from Tobizaru to get Ura off balance. Maybe even more effective than he expected. Ura is not succeeding in getting his sumo to work. Is it me or does he seem to be more controlled and less chaotic this basho, but it's not working. 

I thought it was a slap too, but turned out it was an arm fling. Still amazingly effective.

[Athenayama 1,008]

Takarafuji : 'Ok my friend, push me out whenever you want/can"....

[Leoben 126]

Daieisho failing his thrusting attack and beating Onosato with a deep belt grip was not on my bingo for today.

[Hankegami 439]

Day 10 came and went. The front-runners are now down to Kotozakura, Hoshoryu, and Takanosho. The latter is up against Onosato tomorrow, so it's possible that only the two Ozeki (or just one? Never say never) will be in the lead after day 11. Neither of them looks like eager to get any loss, so it's not impossible that this tournament will be solved on the musubi no ichiban on day 15. There's more than the yusho on the stakes for them also. Win or lose, a high performance yusho or jun-yusho would put them both on Yokozuna watch for January. And the winner would be on preferential watch.

I admit I see the two leading Ozeki as the big favorites by far - Hoshoryu is in his best shape ever, and Kotozakura is gearing up himself. Takanosho is doing great, but I will wait until tomorrow before taking him seriously - his highest-ranked opponent until now has been M4w Oshoma, he's been virtually out of the joy area. Onosato fared poorly against Daieisho today, but he's still a strong wrestler and I doubt he will give an easy chance to Takanosho.

The 8-2 runner-up duo - Abi & Takerufuji - do not look menacing enough to me. I know I'm being petty, but Abi is up here mostly because of the uncalled matta against Hoshoryu. He's faring well, sure, but I don't see any overwhelming, forward, "yusho-shape" sumo from him. Same for Takerufuji. He's... different. Until last basho, the Takerufuji standard was hitting at the tachi-ai, getting the belt, and going for a yorikiri. He's doing a lot of oshi at the start now. It's working well and could be an asset for him over time, but "first times" also make wrestlers prone to first-timer's mistakes. 

Of course that's just my impression and I could be sorely wrong. 

11 hours ago, Tetsuoka said:

Onosato looks somehow concerned, I think he's feeling the pressure of an entire nation waiting for a Japanese Yokozuna.

With the selectively bred Japanese champion Kotozakura being in the front-runner pack this tournament? Not to mention that no one - in the modern era of Sumo - ever managed to be promoted to Yokozuna after just two tournaments as Ozeki. Hakuho was almost there, but he was denied promotion despite a 14-1Y 13-2J post. Terunofuji "did" that after his comeback, but these were not his first two career tournaments at the rank - they were his 16th and 17th, if I did my math correctly. What I mean here is that, if there's a tournament in which Onosato should be at ease with not being on the yusho hunt, it's in his first tournament at Ozeki. Furthermore, knowing how Nihonhoseki has trained him thus far (one step at a time), I'm positive he got this same lecture from his oyakata - just getting through this tournament is ok. If he looks distressed, I'd say it's more because of his personal ambitions. He looks like a jolly fellow, but you don't get there without a massive load of ambitions. He's very possibly frustrated for being not able to make history - again.

21 minutes ago, Leoben said:

Daieisho failing his thrusting attack and beating Onosato with a deep belt grip was not on my bingo for today.

Neither on mine, honestly. Aside from what I wrote up here, at 7-3 Onosato is still a force to be reckoned with this tournament. Winning over him on the belt is... I mean, since when Daieisho is a belt gamer?

Edited November 19, 2024 by Hankegami

[RabidJohn 1,732]

1 hour ago, Hankegami said:

Not to mention that no one - in the modern era of Sumo - ever managed to be promoted to Yokozuna after just two tournaments as Ozeki.

Yeah, it's only theoretically possible. After double celebrations for his 2nd yusho and ozeki promotion, I said I'd be impressed if Onosato can get into double digits this time, as his only non-DD result came after his 1st yusho.

After two thirds of the basho, the yusho race is looking fairly conventional with two ozeki sharing the lead and the new guy one behind.
It would be nice if they can take it all the way. Feels like ages since we had a 14-1.

[dingo 1,222]

As Kintamayama aptly put in his video, pigs were flying around today indeed as Mitakeumi got a win against supposedly in-form but pretty clueless Takarafuji, and Nishikigi who was on track for a double digit makekoshi suddenly beats Atamifuji. Did someone put something in the Isegahama beya chanko?

Wonderful escape maneuver from Abi! I was sure Hiradoumi got him but Abi didn't allow him a solid grip which enabled Abi to pull Hiradoumi down for his kachikoshi and continued participation in the yusho hunt. 

Are my eyes deceiving me or did Daieisho actually win on the belt, and against Onosato of all rikishi!? Sounds preposterous but somehow it did happen. I guess the morozashi Onosato gave up was such an easy opportunity that even Daieisho could do it. He's gotta be out of contention for now, unless he manages to surprise Hoshoryu when they meet. 

Unlike Onosato, Hoshoryu didn't leave anything up to chance in his bout and was in control from the start. Although they're both string ozeki, at this point of the basho I'd consider Onosato beating Hoshoryu an upset. Though that would improve Kotozakura's chances who's just waiting for Hoshoryu to stumble. Lots of excitement still ahead!

[Octofuji 350]

6 hours ago, Athenayama said:

Takarafuji : 'Ok my friend, push me out whenever you want/can"....

I expect he doesn't want to be in the joi next basho!

Edited November 19, 2024 by Octofuji

[Gurowake 4,031]

I think it might be reasonable to consider Abi effectively in the lead here, as he's done with the sanyaku, while the Ozeki still have many sanyaku matches left and whatever low maegashira remain in the hunt will be facing some of the sanyaku as well if needed.  The Ozeki and Kirishima would normally enter a round-robin the last 3 days, plus day 12 would normally have Hoshoryu vs. Shodai and Kotozakura vs. Daieisho, but some of those might be skipped to give Takanosho more high-level opposition than he normally would face.  Who he normally would face probably includes all the lower sanyaku though (none of whom are MK yet), as all have more open days left than there are non-MK maegashira ahead of Takanosho in rank they can still face, so maybe that by itself might be enough, and so they might not need to skip any planned bouts with the top two Ozeki.  

Edited November 19, 2024 by Gurowake

[Asashosakari 19,076]

IMHO, if they truly need to, they can just scrap any and all ozeki vs Kirishima matches, even if he's not makekoshi by then. That (plus Daieisho/WMH/etc.) should give them enough ammunition for both Takanosho and Takerufuji.

But what's the deal with them treating Onokatsu as a bigger threat than Takerufuji anyway? That might have made some marginal sense until the Day 10 schedule because Onokatsu was still one win ahead up to Day 8 (I didn't believe for one second that his sumo would actually hold up against more capable opposition, but never mind that), but after that Day 9 loss to Takarafuji (!), and Takerufuji pulling even, no way. Still, we're getting Onokatsu vs Abi tomorrow and Takerufuji vs ...Gonoyama?! Did they actually believe that Onokatsu was likely to defeat Takanosho, at least more likely than Takerufuji was to defeat Meisei...? Bold statement, if so.

Edited November 19, 2024 by Asashosakari

[Reonito 1,387]

24 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

But what's the deal with them treating Onokatsu as a bigger threat than Takerufuji anyway?

I assume they're just going by rank rather than the names. So ignoring past performance and expectations, it makes "sense" to promote a 7-2 M15e more aggressively than a 7-2 M16w. Presumably the day 12 schedule will have Takerufuji vs Abi, with 3 more days to throw high-level opponents against him as needed.

[Asashosakari 19,076]

1 hour ago, Reonito said:

I assume they're just going by rank rather than the names. So ignoring past performance and expectations, it makes "sense" to promote a 7-2 M15e more aggressively than a 7-2 M16w. Presumably the day 12 schedule will have Takerufuji vs Abi, with 3 more days to throw high-level opponents against him as needed.

I certainly hope that's not the logic they're employing, because "pairings that would ordinarily never happen" is pretty much the one area of match-making that can only be done sensibly when it involves looking at each rikishi's actual competitive merits, not just proxying it by rank.

Anyway, I was thinking Takanosho vs Takerufuji on Day 12, but if not then I guess it might not happen at all. (Or just as a throwaway match after both have ceased being yusho contenders, if that happens.)

Edited November 19, 2024 by Asashosakari

[Reonito 1,387]

2 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

I certainly hope that's not the logic they're employing, because "pairings that would ordinarily never happen" is pretty much the one area of match-making that can only be done sensibly if it involves looking at each rikishi's actual competitive merits, not just proxying it by rank.

Anyway, I was thinking Takanosho vs Takerufuji on Day 12, but if not then I guess it might not happen at all. (Or just as a throwaway match after both have ceased being yusho contenders.)

Yeah I was thinking they might keep going with Takanosho vs ozeki, but I guess Onosato had an open day and the other two don't if they want to preserve their sanyaku bouts, in which case Takanosho vs Takerufuji (and Abi vs Wakatakakage I guess?).

[Gurowake 4,031]

3 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

But what's the deal with them treating Onokatsu as a bigger threat than Takerufuji anyway?

I can only basically repeat Reonito's response.  I really don't think they take into consideration how well someone might do based on experience when forming the torikumi; that's been my general impression at least.  Do you have any examples where they clearly pushed someone up against higher level competition over someone with an identical record that was higher ranked but could be assumed to do worse than the lower-ranked rikishi?  There might be some I didn't really notice.