Kyushu 2024 discussion (results)

[Yarimotsu 552]

25 minutes ago, Wakawakawaka said:

if Hoshoryu wins tomorrow,

I appreciate that you mean the date line falls on the other side for you, but it's in maybe 4 hours - surely that's either tonight or today.

[Reonito 1,387]

Shukun-sho (Outstanding Performance Award)

East Maegashira #3 Abi (11-3)

Kanto-sho (Fighting Spirit Prize)

East Maegashira #6 Takanosho  conditionally (10-4)

Gino-sho(Technique Prize)

East Maegashira #2 Wakatakakage (10-4)

[Reonito 1,387]

(apologies for the terrible formatting)

[Yarimotsu 552]

57 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

It was a clear whiff by gyoji & shimpan alike. 

Watching it back I was pretty sure that Ichiyamamoto's foot is flying already in that shot, depending on which shimpan's interpretation I could see a redo being the call instead of a reversal. But agree it definitely needed to be discussed.

[Wakawakawaka 149]

I think this makes Wakatakakage the active leader with 5 Gino-Sho, breaking tie with Endo.

[Akoushousan 8]

6 hours ago, Reonito said:

It'll be here around 5 or 6 am UTC Sunday.

Thanks!

[Calamityama 24]

Kotozakura Yusho !

[Godango 973]

I was rooting for Hoshoryu but I'm happy for Kotonowaka. Big match feel, looking forward to these two developing a rivalry for their generation. Throw in Onosato and other notable rikishi climbing the ranks, we have a fun era ahead of us. 

[Katooshu 3,182]

Kotozakura doesn't win as spectacularly as Hoshoryu, but he is so solid across different styles and situations. A well-earned and overdue yusho. 

One doesn't become a yokozuna with a big performance here and there though. Doing it back-to-back will be another challenge, but he's looking ready to at least make the run.

[Tigerboy1966 1,420]

Hoshoryu completely dominated Kotozakura... then he fell over.

[Gernobono 463]

1 minute ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Hoshoryu completely dominated Kotozakura... then he fell over.

he was fallen over

[robnplunder 975]

9 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Hoshoryu completely dominated Kotozakura... then he fell over.

That's sumo.  

Congrats to the winner.

[Katooshu 3,182]

Hoshoryu was more aggressive, but I don't see how he was dominating, Kotozakura always looked stable and in control of himself to me. He's also somewhat of a counterpuncher and will take charges as he looks to find an opening for a move of his own. His father was like that too, although to a greater extent, with a more limited offense than the junior Koto.

Edited November 24, 2024 by Katooshu

[Godango 973]

I at first was crestfallen thinking Hoshoryu slipped. But definitely is was great awareness and timing from Kotozakura. It also discredits his recovery from the throw attempt to imply he didn't win decisively. A win via superior defense is a solid win. 

[Hankegami 442]

Well, congrats to Kotozakura *grunts* 

Like many others (and perhaps more than most) I found the final bout anti-climatic. I guess I'm not a fan of "solid sumo" stuff. Hoshoryu was all the way on a win with a majestic throw - until he didn't. Kotozakura definitively showed great balance in his most dangerous moment, but I just - man, I associate hatakikomi with lucking out, not with a dominant win. Whatever. One can also argue that Hoshoryu should have kept his balance. I hope Asashoryu still has his number. He deserves a long, long call from unca.

So, Kyushu wrapped up and now we must all enjoy Christmas before discovering whether any of the Ozeki will make up a tsuna run in January. Aside from the most obvious candidates, I think we are far from seeing the end of Onosato. I actually expect him to hunt for a belated Christmas gift for himself in Hatsu.

Edited November 24, 2024 by Hankegami

[Kaninoyama 1,719]

6 minutes ago, Hankegami said:

I think we are far from seeing the end of Onosato.

He's a newly minted 24-year-old Ozeki, so I should certainly hope so!

[junsan 170]

2025 looks exciting with Kotozakura, Hoshoryu, Onosato and Takerufuji. I predict Terunofuji goes intai and hapless Kirishima does not return to Ozeki.

[RabidJohn 1,734]

Congratulations to Kotozakura on a well-earned hatsu yusho. I'd have preferred spectacular, but I'll happily take solid.
He's going to have a challenge converting it to a rope with a yusho at Hatsu 25, though. Terunofuji might feel up to entering (i.e. believes he has a chance of winning), and Onosato will definitely be in contention again.

There's something else, though. I've just counted 12 makuuchi yusho winners currently in the top division*. Tamawashi, Mitakeumi and Shodai might not get another, but that leaves nine who could. That's a lot of competition. I mean, there were only three when I started watching sumo again nine years ago, and they were all yokozuna.

*Is that an all-time high? Feels like it should be.

Edited November 24, 2024 by RabidJohn

[Asashosakari 19,093]

4 hours ago, Godango said:

I at first was crestfallen thinking Hoshoryu slipped. But definitely is was great awareness and timing from Kotozakura. It also discredits his recovery from the throw attempt to imply he didn't win decisively. A win via superior defense is a solid win. 

In general, loads of bout finishes are falsely getting dismissed as slippiotoshi by fans these days that actually were the result of the winner making the loser lose his balance. Serious pet peeve of mine.

[Kotogouryuu 128]

1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

In general, loads of bout finishes are falsely getting dismissed as slippiotoshi by fans these days that actually were the result of the winner making the loser lose his balance. Serious pet peeve of mine.

I wast thinking exactly this as I watched the match. Hoshoryu was aggressive and moved fast. But it's not like Kotozakura just stood there, he maintained his position with skill and deflected Hoshoryu's attack, until the latter was made to overexert himself. Kotozakura used a lot of skill and power, even if it wasn't as flashy as Hoshoryu's offence.

[just_some_guy 265]

The future is bright for sumo, I think. We've got 3 strong Ozeki and I expect Takerufuji to be a 4th at some point. If Hakuoho could get back to his pre-injury form that'd be even better. Terunofuji might show up once or twice more to make a basho interesting while he's at it. Wakatakakage will likely spice things up in the Sanyaku/joi area for a while but I don't see him taking the step to Ozeki.

By no means a 1-to-1 comparison (yet, at least) but Kotozakura reminds me somewhat of Kisenosato in that he's not flashy, just a big strong stable dude with calm fundamentally strong sumo who's hard to move or get off balance.

[Gurowake 4,031]

10 hours ago, Reonito said:

Shukun-sho (Outstanding Performance Award)

East Maegashira #3 Abi (11-3)

Kanto-sho (Fighting Spirit Prize)

East Maegashira #6 Takanosho  conditionally (10-4)

Gino-sho(Technique Prize)

East Maegashira #2 Wakatakakage (10-4)

This looks really bad after Wakatakakage lost and Wakamotoharu won, which is why I had WTK's as conditional in my guess.  I guess maybe they actually thought WTK's technique was better, but we all know that's not really what the award means.  WTK has a better past history than WMH and got the same score with an easier schedule, but he gets a sansho and his brother doesn't.

[Gurowake 4,031]

It seems reasonable that Wakamotoharu could be promoted to Ozeki next basho with a good Yusho.  His schedule in his M3 basho really isn't that bad, and fairly equivalent to Tochinoshin's during his Ozeki run from the same rank.  While the latter had more wins over 3 tournaments than WMH can possibly get, I'd think that 13Y giving 34 wins + Yusho starting from M3 might be good enough.  Anything more than that I'd wager definitely would.

[RabidJohn 1,734]

49 minutes ago, just_some_guy said:

By no means a 1-to-1 comparison (yet, at least) but Kotozakura reminds me somewhat of Kisenosato in that he's not flashy, just a big strong stable dude with calm fundamentally strong sumo who's hard to move or get off balance.

He's got his 1st yusho much sooner than Kisenosato did. 

I no longer trust my memory, but he strikes me as being similar in style and physique to Onokuni.

And it doesn't seem unreasonable that we're both comparing him to rikishi who made it to yokozuna.

[Gurowake 4,031]

6 hours ago, Hankegami said:

I think we are far from seeing the end of Onosato.

One thing to note is that he got his 9th win on senshuraku, that is, a totally pointless win for an Ozeki other than for hoshokin, over someone that was fighting for a sanyaku berth and thus a higher salary right away.  It's somewhat reminiscent of Baruto beating Kisenosato in the basho that Kyokutenho won, though with a bit lower stakes.  If I had been playing the prediction games I would have said there was no way Onosato would win that match.  That he did is a good sign for him, even if it's only that being young he is cognizant of just how much money that extra hoshokin might bring in over the course of his career.