Kyushu 2024 discussion (results)

[mugatake 38]

We saw this happen on day 14, when Shoudai put his foot directly on the shikirisen and immediately fell over.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL_cJBjHotY&t=739s

I don't understand why it should be so controversial to suggest Kotozakura had only a small role in his own victory on day 15. It isn't inherently a criticism of his skill as a rikishi, in the same way that pointing out a rikishi has received a fusenshou is not inherently a criticism of their skill.

 

Edited November 25 by mugatake

[RabidJohn 1,725]

2 hours ago, dingo said:

Now watch both Kotozakura and Hoshoryu totally fail on Hatsu basho and someone like Onokatsu picking up the yusho... Hmm, I thought we had a thread for these predictions.. 

There's a thread for ridiculous predictions, but that's not really one of them these days!

That said (and this is probably wishful thinking), it's starting to feel like the metaphoric makuuchi yusho winners circle is getting too crowded.

There's a bit of a parallel with this year's F1 season. Verstappen has just been crowned champion again despite not having the fastest car for three quarters of races.
It's been a great season because there were too many challengers: six other drivers (from three different teams) with multiple wins each, crab-bucketing each other away from providing a meaningful challenge to Max. 

[hakutorizakura 609]

Soo... Where's that meme of Takayasu digging for yusho while the others looking on? 

[visitor_22 28]

5 hours ago, dingo said:

Now watch both Kotozakura and Hoshoryu totally fail on Hatsu basho and someone like Onokatsu picking up the yusho... Hmm, I thought we had a thread for these predictions.. 

 

(for the record, I do not want either of them to fail and would be overjoyed if we finally get a new yokozuna) 

I think Onosato will come strong again nexy basho. I think Onosato is destined to become Yokozuna.

[dingo 1,212]

51 minutes ago, visitor_22 said:

I think Onosato will come strong again nexy basho. I think Onosato is destined to become Yokozuna.

One can dream, but why not have 3 young strong yokozuna? The more the merrier. 

[Jakusotsu 5,876]

3 hours ago, dingo said:

One can dream, but why not have 3 young strong yokozuna? The more the merrier. 

Might even happen next Kyushu if all pans out.

[Yamanashi 3,779]

3 hours ago, dingo said:

One can dream, but why not have 3 young strong yokozuna? The more the merrier. 

None of them look dominant at this time, which makes the chance of each making Yokozuna more plausible.

[Asashosakari 19,023]

38 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

None of them look dominant at this time, which makes the chance of each making Yokozuna more plausible.

Does it? The same lack of dominance that may ensure that yokozuna promotee #1 isn't going to stop #2 and #3 from happening is going to hinder each guy's efforts to become #1 to begin with.

I'm tempted to start a poll if Hatsu basho will see better combined results than this notable failed double tsunatori...

Edited November 25 by Asashosakari

[RabidJohn 1,725]

7 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

The same lack of dominance that may ensure that yokozuna promotee #1 isn't going to stop #2 and #3 from happening is going to hinder each guy's efforts to become #1 to begin with.

Exactly. It's way easier for a dominant rikishi to get the 2 on the trot needed for the rope. It's obviously way harder for anyone going up against a dominant rikishi, but it's also harder to get consecutive yusho when about 25% of the division is capable of winning, as it is currently.

 

[Kaninoyama 1,713]

5 hours ago, visitor_22 said:

I think Onosato will come strong again nexy basho. I think Onosato is destined to become Yokozuna.

Many of us have long been saying the same about Hoshoryu (and I still believe it's only a matter of time). But wouldn't it be ironic if the next Yokozuna was Kotozakura, who very few on this forum identified as even Ozeki material, much less a Yokozuna. 

[Ack! 453]

I haven't had the chance to read through the posts here to see who else may have commented, but I just noticed that 3 different native Japanese rikishi have taken 4 of the past 5 yushos.  Japanese resurgence at the highest levels of sumo.

[Yamanashi 3,779]

1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

Does it? The same lack of dominance that may ensure that yokozuna promotee #1 isn't going to stop #2 and #3 from happening is going to hinder each guy's efforts to become #1 to begin with.

I'm tempted to start a poll if Hatsu basho will see better combined results than this notable failed double tsunatori...

I apparently used "each" when I meant "all".

[visitor_22 28]

3 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Many of us have long been saying the same about Hoshoryu (and I still believe it's only a matter of time). But wouldn't it be ironic if the next Yokozuna was Kotozakura, who very few on this forum identified as even Ozeki material, much less a Yokozuna. 

Hosh doesn't have enough power and body type to claim he is 100% Yokozuna material.

Onosato however has a good style, power and body type to contend every basho. 

[dingo 1,212]

9 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

None of them look dominant at this time, which makes the chance of each making Yokozuna more plausible.

Cue the start of the new (wannabe) yokozuna back scratching club! 

[Ack! 453]

All three of the lowest division yushos were won by rikishi apparently returning from injury, plus yusho-doten Nakashima.  Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm only going by what I see in the Sumodb.  I guess it's good news that rikishi are getting time off to heal, but bad news for up-and-coming rikishi trying to make their mark.  I liken this to rehab assignments in major league baseball and wonder if rikishi would be able to return so soon/well if their slippage down the banzuke were limited as some have advocated???

[Yamanashi 3,779]

22 minutes ago, Ack! said:

All three of the lowest division yushos were won by rikishi apparently returning from injury, plus yusho-doten Nakashima.  Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm only going by what I see in the Sumodb.  I guess it's good news that rikishi are getting time off to heal, but bad news for up-and-coming rikishi trying to make their mark.  I liken this to rehab assignments in major league baseball and wonder if rikishi would be able to return so soon/well if their slippage down the banzuke were limited as some have advocated???

I did a study of who wins the lower rank (Jk, Jd, Sd) Yusho awhile back, but my addled brain can't find it.  The upshot is that most of these are either rebounders or up-and-comers (kids who have some reputation but haven't gotten a TD boost).

[Ack! 453]

11 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

I did a study of who wins the lower rank (Jk, Jd, Sd) Yusho awhile back, but my addled brain can't find it.  The upshot is that most of these are either rebounders or up-and-comers (kids who have some reputation but haven't gotten a TD boost).

I'm interested in trends rikishi climbing back up from the lower divisions, to see if there is any indication that they are being given more time to heal with a corresponding rebound in performance.

[Yamanashi 3,779]

9 hours ago, Ack! said:

I'm interested in trends rikishi climbing back up from the lower divisions, to see if there is any indication that they are being given more time to heal with a corresponding rebound in performance.

Well, try this: go to the db under "Yusho" and look at the Jonidan Yusho for, say, 2015-2024.  You'll recognize a lot of the new up-and-comers, and almost all the others are guys who fell down to Jonidan and started back with a Yusho.  There are a few exceptions -- Asaazumi in May of this year is one.

[Barutokai 64]

On 25/11/2024 at 22:57, Ack! said:

I haven't had the chance to read through the posts here to see who else may have commented, but I just noticed that 3 different native Japanese rikishi have taken 4 of the past 5 yushos.  Japanese resurgence at the highest levels of sumo.

Well this 1 gaijin/heya rule HAD to finally pay off.

And many successful foreign rikishi did retire in the last 3-4 years.

[Benihana 1,916]

On 26/11/2024 at 02:17, visitor_22 said:

Hosh doesn't have enough power and body type to claim he is 100% Yokozuna material.

He's about the same size and weight of Harumafuji. And like Harumafuji he's not one to overpower others with brute mass and force.

[robnplunder 975]

On 25/11/2024 at 17:17, visitor_22 said:

Hosh doesn't have enough power and body type to claim he is 100% Yokozuna material.

He has a shot b/c there aren't enough elite competitors to stop him from becoming one.  Also, his smart can make up for his lack of size & power.

[lackmaker 434]

His smart is very good but he also takes some dumb losses.

[just_some_guy 264]

6 hours ago, lackmaker said:

His smart is very good but he also takes some dumb losses.

IMO he's getting smarter. He seems to be doing a better job in recent times of knowing what strategy he needs to use for any given opponent. He doesn't always execute it well enough to win but he's still improving. I would agree with those who say his current form doesn't scream Yokozuna right now, but his potential is of that level and I'll be zero percent surprised if he eventually gets the rope.

[Sumo Spiffy 549]

On 05/12/2024 at 04:06, lackmaker said:

His smart is very good but he also takes some dumb losses.

I'd draw a distinction between dumb losses and stubborn losses. Hoshoryu is singularly skilled at throws relative to the rest of sumo's upper echelon right now, and got himself in trouble more and more by leaning on it too heavily. You can see it in his matches over the last year against Atamifuji, especially, but Kotozakura's strategy in the last match of Kyushu is another example. It's not a coincidence that of his thirteen wins, nine came with strong, straightforward sumo and only two were by throw. (The two others were Atamifuji's foot flub and the desperation arm drag on Onosato.)

Dumb losses are more Shodai's territory.

[Benevolance 2,484]

On 25/11/2024 at 13:49, Kaninoyama said:

Many of us have long been saying the same about Hoshoryu (and I still believe it's only a matter of time). But wouldn't it be ironic if the next Yokozuna was Kotozakura, who very few on this forum identified as even Ozeki material, much less a Yokozuna. 

Forget about his being ozeki material, I couldn't even identify Kotozakura as Kotozakura until some time in September. Stupid name changes.