Takakeisho is Minatogawa-oyakata now

[themistyseas 238]

1 hour ago, I am the Yokozuna said:

A smug overachiever bound to flop as an oyakata spectacularly, unless he works on the way he communicates with people or attracts the right people to do the actual coaching. 

I feel like there have been other notable oyakata in recent years (and doubtlessly in the generations before) who maybe wouldn't have been tagged as being excellent communicators - Kisenosato being a prime example - but who blossomed in terms of their oratory abilities once they hung up the mawashi. The other thing that shouldn't be ruled out especially based on the paths taken by other recent oyakata is that at his age, he could well start taking a university course before inheriting or branching out to run his own heya, and that may well also give him greater experience in communicating his ideas.

It will be fascinating to see what kind of role he will be given within the kyokai. He seems like someone who would benefit the kyokai immensely by taking on a fan-facing or social media role, but as stated, that may not suited for him right now...

[Akinomaki 40,207]

Last day of the active career - Aki 2024 day 2

 

[Kaninoyama 1,718]

1 hour ago, themistyseas said:

I feel like there have been other notable oyakata in recent years (and doubtlessly in the generations before) who maybe wouldn't have been tagged as being excellent communicators - Kisenosato being a prime example - but who blossomed in terms of their oratory abilities once they hung up the mawashi. The other thing that shouldn't be ruled out especially based on the paths taken by other recent oyakata is that at his age, he could well start taking a university course before inheriting or branching out to run his own heya, and that may well also give him greater experience in communicating his ideas.

It will be fascinating to see what kind of role he will be given within the kyokai. He seems like someone who would benefit the kyokai immensely by taking on a fan-facing or social media role, but as stated, that may not suited for him right now...

The notion that Takakeisho "can't communicate" is simply not true. Which is obvious if you've ever seen him talking outside the dohyo, such as on the variety show circuit during promotions for upcoming basho. On which he is always engaging and has a great sense of humor. 

Rather, as with Kisenosato, they both adopted a stoic Showa-style rikishi "samurai/warrior spirit" approach to their sumo careers. 

I don't know if he'll end up being as talkative as Kisenosato in retirement. But the gruff, reticent guy we saw on the dohyo is not necessarily who he is outside of it. 

Edited September 21, 2024 by Kaninoyama

[themistyseas 238]

2 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

The notion that Takakeisho "can't communicate" is simply not true. Which is obvious if you've ever seen him talking outside the dohyo, such as on the variety show circuit during promotions for upcoming basho. On which he is always engaging and has a great sense of humor. 

 Rather, as with Kisenosato, they both adopted a stoic Showa-style rikishi "samurai/warrior spirit" approach to their sumo careers. 

That was kind of my point. We can't look at his behaviour in and around official sumo related interviews and apply it towards the type of oyakata he will be because history has shown that there is not always a whole lot of correlation.

But it's also fair to look at the guy now - or any of us at a certain age - and say that he may well develop a whole new set of skills after his active sumo retirement, now that he's got the ability to pursue broader interests. I'm really looking forward to what his next role might be, and I do really think it would be a shrewd move to take someone with his sumo background out of just doing variety shows and into an environment where he can help the kyokai's various channels as a popular figure who will be much better known to a younger generation. But who knows if that's something they feel is right for him now.

Edited September 21, 2024 by themistyseas

[Asashosakari 19,073]

3 hours ago, themistyseas said:

I feel like there have been other notable oyakata in recent years (and doubtlessly in the generations before) who maybe wouldn't have been tagged as being excellent communicators - Kisenosato being a prime example - but who blossomed in terms of their oratory abilities once they hung up the mawashi.

Exactly. I don't know where the accusation of smugness comes from, anyway. As far as I can tell, Takakeisho has always displayed a solid grasp of reality as far as his career was concerned - didn't make excuses when he failed, didn't play up any sort of "I coulda been a contender" nostalgia, never acted like he was too good for the ozeki rank.

[Seiyashi 4,072]

12 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Exactly. I don't know where the accusation of smugness comes from, anyway. As far as I can tell, Takakeisho has always displayed a solid grasp of reality as far as his career was concerned - didn't make excuses when he failed, didn't play up any sort of "I coulda been a contender" nostalgia, never acted like he was too good for the ozeki rank.

Exactly this. I didn't like him when he was first ascending to ōzeki, but he's been a solid occupier of the rank at a time when stability was hard to come by. A lot of respect is due to him just for that alone. 

[Gaijingai 1,565]

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2024/09/838767421031-sumo-retired-former-ozeki-takakeisho-burned-out-at-28.html

[Akinomaki 40,207]

At the intai press conference today with Tokiwayama-oyakata - the NSK will post a digest later, looks like NHK had a (full?) coverage somewhere in the broadcast https://plus.nhk.jp/watch/st/g1_2024092131460?t=1163&cid=spohk-tw-2024-sumo-chukei (NHK-G had nearly nothing today due to the torrent rain disaster)

applause by the fans in the hall as he passed through

o

o

ooo

oo

o oo o

oooo oo o

oo o ooo o o o o     o  oo

o oo oo

oooo

oooooooo o oo

Edited September 22, 2024 by Akinomaki

[Akinomaki 40,207]

On 21/09/2024 at 21:19, Akinomaki said:

At the intai press conference today with Tokiwayama-oyakata - the NSK will post a digest later,

intai press conference

[MrGrumpyGills 123]

I’m happy and I’m sad.

Happy that Takakeishō pulled the plug when he had to and (very) sad to see my favorite rikishi retire.

I liked him right away when he entered makuuchi (at that time I wasn’t following Juryo and lower yet) and he quickly became my favorite. While I also had liked others (Takarafuji and Tochinoshin for example), he’s the first and so far only rikishi of whom I really was a fan since starting to follow sumo in 2013.
He was different and always some sort of an underdog, often mocked by sumo fans for his body type and even hated later in his career – all of that only made me root for him harder. Yes, I’ve been called a "contrarian" before :P
By the way, I never saw any smugness or arrogance in him. It’s just the way his face looks. Similar to guys like Tochiōzan.

At his peak IMO he performed like a yokozuna and at least to me was a joy to watch and cheer on.
Technically, they could’ve given the rope to him twice (2020.09/2020.11 and 2022.11/2023.01), but I guess the "equivalent" part of the yusho + equivalent wasn’t strong or decisive enough each time. I would’ve loved to see him promoted.

Regarding that one henka that turned many people away from Takakeishō, I remember Terunofuji’s infamous henka vs. Kotoshōgiku. So many HATED Terunofuji’s guts back then, but he’s been forgiven and is well liked by most sumo fans now.
So I’m wondering why the dislike against Takakeishō almost seemed political at some point or what it would’ve taken for him to achieve redemption.

At any rate, I hope he can be successful in his second career as oyakata and be able to heal and get healthy :)
Otsukaresama, Takakeishō!

[rhyen 1,827]

21 minutes ago, MrGrumpyGills said:

I’m happy and I’m sad.

Happy that Takakeishō pulled the plug when he had to and (very) sad to see my favorite rikishi retire.

I liked him right away when he entered makuuchi (at that time I wasn’t following Juryo and lower yet) and he quickly became my favorite. While I also had liked others (Takarafuji and Tochinoshin for example), he’s the first and so far only rikishi of whom I really was a fan since starting to follow sumo in 2013.
He was different and always some sort of an underdog, often mocked by sumo fans for his body type and even hated later in his career – all of that only made me root for him harder. Yes, I’ve been called a "contrarian" before :P
By the way, I never saw any smugness or arrogance in him. It’s just the way his face looks. Similar to guys like Tochiōzan.

At his peak IMO he performed like a yokozuna and at least to me was a joy to watch and cheer on.
Technically, they could’ve given the rope to him twice (2020.09/2020.11 and 2022.11/2023.01), but I guess the "equivalent" part of the yusho + equivalent wasn’t strong or decisive enough each time. I would’ve loved to see him promoted.

Regarding that one henka that turned many people away from Takakeishō, I remember Terunofuji’s infamous henka vs. Kotoshōgiku. So many HATED Terunofuji’s guts back then, but he’s been forgiven and is well liked by most sumo fans now.
So I’m wondering why the dislike against Takakeishō almost seemed political at some point or what it would’ve taken for him to achieve redemption.

At any rate, I hope he can be successful in his second career as oyakata and be able to heal and get healthy :)
Otsukaresama, Takakeishō!

Terunofuji first fell down to Jd and made his way back up. Around the time when we was promoted to Yokozuna, there were several sympathetic documentaries aired about him, including one about the infamous henka. Most people have forgiven him, given enough time and background revelations leading to the henka and final battle against Kisenosato.

[Yamanashi 3,793]

1 hour ago, MrGrumpyGills said:

By the way, I never saw any smugness or arrogance in him. It’s just the way his face looks. Similar to guys like Tochiōzan.

You are right.  I think his face is so puffed out because of his large weight on a small body that his facial cues can be misread [btw, I'm not sure Atamifuji is always grinning; it might just be his face.]

I watched the whole video of Takakeisho's last bout, and it was almost comical (in the good sense).  His right eyebrow is like a symphony conductor, arching up and down to some internal music.

1 hour ago, MrGrumpyGills said:

I would’ve loved to see him promoted.

How long might his career have lasted if he could skip one or even two tournaments to heal up his neck or pec problems?  I doubt he would have been criticized more than Terunofuji has.

 

Finally, it is notable that the retirement of the latest Great Japanese Hope arrives as the next (a very strong contender) comes knocking at the door.

[RabidJohn 1,732]

3 hours ago, MrGrumpyGills said:

So I’m wondering why the dislike against Takakeishō almost seemed political at some point or what it would’ve taken for him to achieve redemption.

I've no idea what goes on on Reddit or Twitter, but the most negative post in this whole thread still describes him as an 'overachiever'.
That's like calling me a try-hard as a gamer; I'll happily own it.

He proved his detractors wrong with 4 yusho and a six-year ozeki tenure. 

Also the number of posts here along the lines of 'he wasn't my favourite, but he did well and I wish him well' suggests to me that he was redeemed already.

[Jakusotsu 5,892]

30 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I've no idea what goes on on Reddit or Twitter, but the most negative post in this whole thread still describes him as an 'overachiever'.
That's like calling me a try-hard as a gamer; I'll happily own it. 

Funny, to me he always appeared as an underachiever. Not by his actual merits, of course, but I still had the feeling he could have done so much more.

[dingo 1,222]

56 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I've no idea what goes on on Reddit or Twitter, but the most negative post in this whole thread still describes him as an 'overachiever'.
That's like calling me a try-hard as a gamer; I'll happily own it.

He proved his detractors wrong with 4 yusho and a six-year ozeki tenure. 

Also the number of posts here along the lines of 'he wasn't my favourite, but he did well and I wish him well' suggests to me that he was redeemed already.

I think a lot of people (not on this forum but in general) started following sumo later and only saw the later part of Terunofuji's career. Whereas Takakeisho's ketteisen henka was much more recent. That might explain the divergence, if there is any.

[MrGrumpyGills 123]

1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

I've no idea what goes on on Reddit or Twitter, but the most negative post in this whole thread still describes him as an 'overachiever'.
That's like calling me a try-hard as a gamer; I'll happily own it.

He proved his detractors wrong with 4 yusho and a six-year ozeki tenure. 

Also the number of posts here along the lines of 'he wasn't my favourite, but he did well and I wish him well' suggests to me that he was redeemed already.

Oh no, this thread is perfectly fine! Sorry if I was unclear on that.
I was thinking of some older threads that had some nasty comments, also on Youtube. As for Reddit and Twitter, they are notoriously vicious with almost everything and full of misinformation, so I'm not using these for sumo info/discussion (and barely anything else).

[MrGrumpyGills 123]

3 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

How long might his career have lasted if he could skip one or even two tournaments to heal up his neck or pec problems?  I doubt he would have been criticized more than Terunofuji has.

Finally, it is notable that the retirement of the latest Great Japanese Hope arrives as the next (a very strong contender) comes knocking at the door.

Had they promoted him, he likely would've have lasted longer but OTOH maybe his neck injury would've been career-ending anyway, similar to Kisenosato's injury. He was burning the candle at both ends. So this could be a blessing in disguise.

Let's see what Ōnosato can do. I like his energy and fierceness.

[RabidJohn 1,732]

54 minutes ago, MrGrumpyGills said:

Let's see what Ōnosato can do.

I'm massively impressed by his progress. The big unknown now is really whether he can be as successful as Takakeisho at avoiding the ozeki curse.

[Bunbukuchagama 703]

1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

I'm massively impressed by his progress. The big unknown now is really whether he can be as successful as Takakeisho at avoiding the ozeki curse.

The best way to avoid the Ozeki curse is to become a Yokozuna. 

[hakutorizakura 609]

On 23/09/2024 at 16:31, MrGrumpyGills said:

I’m happy and I’m sad.

Happy that Takakeishō pulled the plug when he had to and (very) sad to see my favorite rikishi retire.

I liked him right away when he entered makuuchi (at that time I wasn’t following Juryo and lower yet) and he quickly became my favorite. While I also had liked others (Takarafuji and Tochinoshin for example), he’s the first and so far only rikishi of whom I really was a fan since starting to follow sumo in 2013.
He was different and always some sort of an underdog, often mocked by sumo fans for his body type and even hated later in his career – all of that only made me root for him harder. Yes, I’ve been called a "contrarian" before :P
By the way, I never saw any smugness or arrogance in him. It’s just the way his face looks. Similar to guys like Tochiōzan.

At his peak IMO he performed like a yokozuna and at least to me was a joy to watch and cheer on.
Technically, they could’ve given the rope to him twice (2020.09/2020.11 and 2022.11/2023.01), but I guess the "equivalent" part of the yusho + equivalent wasn’t strong or decisive enough each time. I would’ve loved to see him promoted.

Regarding that one henka that turned many people away from Takakeishō, I remember Terunofuji’s infamous henka vs. Kotoshōgiku. So many HATED Terunofuji’s guts back then, but he’s been forgiven and is well liked by most sumo fans now.
So I’m wondering why the dislike against Takakeishō almost seemed political at some point or what it would’ve taken for him to achieve redemption.

At any rate, I hope he can be successful in his second career as oyakata and be able to heal and get healthy :)
Otsukaresama, Takakeishō!

This is totally my view also, I wish I could give you two likes!

Peak Takakeisho could push peak Terunofuji to the bales in 2-3 shoves, and yet he always got underestimated.

Otsukaresamadeshita battle hamster, good luck raising another honey badger!

[hakutorizakura 609]

On 23/09/2024 at 20:18, Jakusotsu said:

Funny, to me he always appeared as an underachiever. Not by his actual merits, of course, but I still had the feeling he could have done so much more.

If only he had Shodai's body...

[yorikiried by fate 2,010]

On 23/09/2024 at 19:18, Jakusotsu said:

Funny, to me he always appeared as an underachiever. Not by his actual merits, of course, but I still had the feeling he could have done so much more.

Overachiever in an ocean of underachievers maybe? The story of the last couple of years...

[yorikiried by fate 2,010]

On 23/09/2024 at 15:31, MrGrumpyGills said:

[…] I remember Terunofuji’s infamous henka vs. Kotoshōgiku. So many HATED Terunofuji’s guts back then, […]

A few people loved it, though.

[MrGrumpyGills 123]

On 23/09/2024 at 21:38, RabidJohn said:

I'm massively impressed by his progress. The big unknown now is really whether he can be as successful as Takakeisho at avoiding the ozeki curse.

Absolutely. Let's hope he can avoid the curse and even more importantly any major injuries (this is not a jinx ). I'm also super happy for Nishonoseki for being able to raise such a sucessful rikishi so quickly.

[MrGrumpyGills 123]

1 hour ago, hakutorizakura said:

This is totally my view also, I wish I could give you two likes!

Peak Takakeisho could push peak Terunofuji to the bales in 2-3 shoves, and yet he always got underestimated.

Otsukaresamadeshita battle hamster, good luck raising another honey badger!

Thanks so much and have a written like back (forum's glitching on me again) :)
100 % agreeing with you.