Nishiiwa-beya SNS crisis

[Akinomaki 40,791]

For the last 3 or 5 months Nishiiwa-beya had problems with slanderous comments on SNS - on the 14th they have shut down their twitter. A lawyer investigated and the perpetrators have been found out: mother and grandmother of a rikishi, and also the father posted some.

It led to intai of a rikishi, the shisho has handed in the papers. https://nishiiwashinobu.hatenablog.com/archive/2024/10/23

The responsible seems to be Mikinosato, he posted an apology  https://nishiiwabeya.com/

He wants to sever all ties with his family. http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2024/10/24/0018264280.shtml

Edited October 24, 2024 by Akinomaki

[Bunbukuchagama 772]

25 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

shisho

Deshi? 

[Akinomaki 40,791]

11 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Deshi? 

the shisho hands in the papers for the deshi

[Bunbukuchagama 772]

7 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

the shisho hands in the papers for the deshi

 

45 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

perpetrators have been found out: mother and grandmother of the shisho

 

[RabidJohn 1,855]

@Bunbukuchagama I'm going to be nice because there are people using English as a 2nd language here.

The way I'm reading the OP is the retired deshi are not responsible for the slanderous comments: Nishiiwa's folks are, which is why he's severing ties with them.

Edit: The OP has been amended. It wasn't Nishiiwa's folks: it was Mikinosato's.

Edited October 24, 2024 by RabidJohn

[Koorifuu 1,020]

Same. My perception is that Nishiiwa's family caused trouble for the beya via social network sites, which indirectly caused rikishi to quit, and Nishiiwa is cutting. Their papers were handed in by Nishiiwa as customary.

I'm not sure, though, how this relates to Mikinosato's handling of their website and whether this means he's retired.

EDIT: Incorrect.

Edited October 24, 2024 by Koorifuu

[Kintamayama 45,530]

I read it as Mikinosato apologising for his grandmother, mother and father, and has decided to severe all ties wit them. He also says he will do his best in Kyushu, so not retiring. Rough translation of his post on Nishiiwa's website:

This is Mikinosato. There is something I would like to tell everyone, so with my stablemaster's permission I will write it down. On X, two accounts, "It's Sunny Today" and "Melonpan," have been posting slanderous stuff against Nishiiwa stable for three months. In fact, I looked into it with a lawyer at the end of August and found out that "It's Sunny Today" is my maternal grandmother, and "Melonpan" is my mother. I have apologized to everyone in the stable, but I have not been able to apologize to all of you who support me, so I would like to take this opportunity to apologize as well. I am sorry for any discomfort caused. I feel a sense of responsibility every day, but the kind words I've received from the supporters' association and fellow wrestlers have been very encouraging. Thanks to them, I'm still able to keep working hard. I feel so happy when I finish my practice and training. I still can't write down everything I'm thinking, but from now on I'll focus on the Kyushu tournament. I'll continue to do my best at Nishiiwa stable. In July, I wanted to know the truth so I called my mother, who I thought was the most suspicious, but she denied it. No matter how many times I asked, she denied it, and I despaired at seeing my mother lie. After that, my mother and grandmother continued to slander on social media. I thought that the issue had been resolved and I had no intention of going public, but the other day I found out that my father was posting lies and speculation on social media as well, venting his frustrations about the guidance of the oyakata and the okamisan  with fabricated stories, saying things like "I will never forgive those who destroyed my family" .I was shocked and unable to forgive him, so I decided to talk. After witnessing my parents' disgraceful behavior for three months, I decided I never wanted to see my family again , so I went to the ward office and cut all ties with them. 

Nikkan article:

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202410240000927.html

Edited October 24, 2024 by Kintamayama

[Akinomaki 40,791]

Yeah, not the oyakata's, the family of the rikishi are the perpetrators. Once I've mixed something up, I tend to stick to that error and ignore contradicting information, till I reread the whole thing: with the mass of information every day, that may never happen, or I find the flaw by chance after a year or so, if nobody points it out.

[Katooshu 3,334]

Weird situation 

[Akinomaki 40,791]

11 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

It led to intai of a rikishi, the shisho has handed in the papers. https://nishiiwashinobu.hatenablog.com/archive/2024/10/23

Rereading the oyakata comment, it implies that he handed in the papers for a relative of Mikinosato, whose family member(s) wrote the first slander, the perpetrator then signed a contract to stop doing this. The oyakata thought that was it, but members of the same family posted more "slander" (apparently implication of power harassment at Nishiiwa-beya): Satotanaka retired after Aki, the younger brother of Mikinosato (ex-Wakatanaka). Mikinosato wrote he'll gambarize for Kyushu and gets support from all sides.

Edited October 24, 2024 by Akinomaki

[Akinomaki 40,791]

@mods - please split the Nishiiwa talk into a separate topic "Nishiiwa-beya SNS crisis"

14 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

the oyakata comment

implies that he handed in the papers for a relative of Mikinosato, whose family member(s) wrote the first slander, the perpetrator then signed a contract to stop doing this. The oyakata thought that was it, but members of the same family posted more "slander" (apparently implication of power harassment at Nishiiwa-beya): Satotanaka retired after Aki, the younger brother of Mikinosato (ex-Wakatanaka).

4 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Mother and grandmother apparently were the first ones, who apologized and signed an oath to stop this - starting May, about 100 posts came from one account, starting July 400 from another account. Posts like "I'll never forgive those who destroyed my family" or "I'm waiting to have you turn back into my son and return", which Mikinosato and the shisho classify as imagination and lies.

The oyakata had handed in the intai papers for Satotanaka, who was kyujo since Nagoya.

With this they wanted to sweep the whole thing under the carpet, but lately the father started to post as well. http://www.j-cast.com/2024/10/25496353.html?p=all

- the papers so far haven't mentioned Satotanaka, I guess the tabloids will dig into this now

Mikinosato:

23 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I decided I never wanted to see my family again , so I went to the ward office and cut all ties with them. 

A lawyer commented on this - there is no way in Japan to cut the bond between parents and children and the duty between members of the family to support each other in need remains. Mikinosato is 19 and thus able to separate his family register from that of the parents, that's what he did at the ward office. A note of change remains in the parents family register, to hide ones new location, one should use a different one than that of the address so far - there is no stalker protection from the parents. http://www.bengo4.com/c_18/n_18064/

[Katsunorifuji 65]

Not sure if I missed reading this somewhere, but is there a reason why they posted the slander?

[Akinomaki 40,791]

39 minutes ago, Katsunorifuji said:

Not sure if I missed reading this somewhere, but is there a reason why they posted the slander?

Maybe because it's based on facts (harassment) - I guess there will be more reports, which then also mention a reason

[Kintamayama 45,530]

29 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Maybe because it's based on facts (harassment) - I guess there will be more reports, which then also mention a reason

I think they first accused the heya of misconduct towards the younger brother who retired earlier.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Oyakata's take:

"We recently had to close our official X (formerly Twitter) account due to the large number of posts slandering Nishiiwa stable. The slander began in May 2024 with over 100 posts from the same person in a period of around three months. Similar slander began on a different account in July, with the number of posts reaching around 400 in a period of around one month. We considered filing criminal charges, but dropped them because the individuals involved have apologized and submitted written pledges. However, following subsequent posts, we are currently considering legal action and taking countermeasures."

In response to the unexpected situation where the slanderers were family, people on social media have been expressing their concern, such as, "I was just reading this (Nishiiwa stable's blog) and I feel so sorry for Mikinosato that it brought me to tears. He's been a sumo wrestler for four years but he's only 19, Mikinosato. He's been slandered and lied to by his mother and grandmother...and now his father has also slandered him...I really support his decision to cut ties and move on. I hope that the people around him, including his stablemaster, give him plenty of protection..."

[Kaninoyama 1,818]

Too bad they didn't learn about Twitter's Block function, or much of this might have been avoided. 

[Asashosakari 19,664]

20 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Too bad they didn't learn about Twitter's Block function, or much of this might have been avoided. 

That would hardly have made the defamation stop, and obviously for a public entity like a heya the concerns aren't just about having to see the defaming comments, but also about how it influences other people's perceptions. 

[Akinomaki 40,791]

On 25/10/2024 at 12:41, Akinomaki said:

- the papers so far haven't mentioned Satotanaka, I guess the tabloids will dig into this now

Our favourite sumo tabloid Weekly Post has posted about it - in 2 parts http://www.news-postseven.com/archives/20241029_2001588.html

They couldn't talk to the family, but they managed to get an interview from Nishiiwa.

Satotanaka disappeared from the heya after the Natsu-basho, immediately afterwards the "slander" on SNS began. In the heya, one in the relentless training tradition of Takanosato, in the 6 years since the start, 9 of 16 who joined had quit, only 1 had a danpatsushiki. Also gyoji and tokoyama have left. The heya has no university graduates, no successful amateur rikishi, the young deshi without experience come to get stronger. Both brothers joined directly after middle school graduation.

The father had posted on Facebook that Satotanaka is in medical care - apparently the bad relation with the okamisan led to his escape from the heya.

[Bunbukuchagama 772]

9 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

In the heya, one in the relentless training tradition of Takanosato, in the 6 years since the start, 9 of 16 who joined had quit, only 1 had a danpatsushiki. Also gyoji and tokoyama have left.

Sounds like a pretty toxic place.

[themistyseas 242]

19 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Also gyoji and tokoyama have left.

So who's gonna ask the important question here... where do these guys go to get their hair done!? :)

[Yamanashi 3,904]

19 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

In the heya, one in the relentless training tradition of Takanosato, in the 6 years since the start, 9 of 16 who joined had quit, only 1 had a danpatsushiki.

It looks suspicious.  Nishiiwa branched out from Tagonoura in Jan 2018; apparently two deshi went with him.  Of the 9 rikishi with intai since then, the career length is:

0-9 basho, 4; 10-19 basho, 2; 20-29 basho, 2; 30-39 basho, 1.  For the remaining 7 active rikishi (all arriving in March), 2 joined in 2018, 2 in 2020, 1 in 2022 and 1 in 2024.  Only 4 of the 16 Nishiiwa rikishi have reached Sandanme as of 11/2024, the highest rank is Sd55 for (intai) Tokinosato.

[Yarimotsu 594]

6 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

It looks suspicious

Well I'm not really sure it looks suspicious... but it sure looks ineffective. That's probably in large part due to who he is actually recruiting, which from every piece of info Akinomaki is compiling seems to be inexperienced 15 year olds. I'd expect the average upper-end recruit (75th percentile?) from that background to reach their peak rank after 10 years (is there any research into this duration?). I'd also expect half to just quit long before that point. So we could just be seeing the natural outcome of this recruiting strategy.

[Yamanashi 3,904]

3 hours ago, Yarimotsu said:

Well I'm not really sure it looks suspicious... but it sure looks ineffective. That's probably in large part due to who he is actually recruiting, which from every piece of info Akinomaki is compiling seems to be inexperienced 15 year olds. I'd expect the average upper-end recruit (75th percentile?) from that background to reach their peak rank after 10 years (is there any research into this duration?). I'd also expect half to just quit long before that point. So we could just be seeing the natural outcome of this recruiting strategy.

I'm not saying I think he's beating or harassing recruits (I don't know what the "family" specifically alleged). 

If you compare this heya with, say, Shikihidebeya (where the philosophy seems to be "give street kids a haven in Sumo"), there weren't too many quick retirements in Shikihide  (until the Scary Okamisan controversy).

When Narutobeya had the hazing scandal in 2019, the aggressor was kicked out and not much else happened; the Anzai scandal also seemed to be a one-off (the other two rikishi who retired were both fighting long-term injuries).  I know many members of this forum view that heya as a criminal enterprise, but at least we can compare their histories, since they opened at about the same time.

What's disturbing to me is that only one of the retirees had a hair-cutting ceremony.  I look forward to seeing the danpatsu-shiki articles in the Forum at the end of each basho; you get to honor many lunch-bucket guys who did their best and didn't make it to the paying ranks.  Not to provide that event to your rikishi is, well, disturbing.

[Bunbukuchagama 772]

12 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

What's disturbing to me is that only one of the retirees had a hair-cutting ceremony.  I look forward to seeing the danpatsu-shiki articles in the Forum at the end of each basho; you get to honor many lunch-bucket guys who did their best and didn't make it to the paying ranks.  Not to provide that event to your rikishi is, well, disturbing.

No danpatsu-shiki often means "ran away or was kicked out".