Hatsu 2025 discussion (results)

[Reonito 1,449]

1 hour ago, Morty said:

Hoshoryu being on a Tsuna run seems like the softest run of all time. His only yusho was a year and a half ago, and since then he has only got more than ten wins twice, both for jun-yushos. The basho before last he went 8-7. I thought it was supposed to be two yusho or yusho equivalents in a row, not J-Y. What am I missing here, how is a tsuna run justified at this time?

Not all J are the same. If he tied for J at 11-4 while Kotozakura ran away with the title, we wouldn't be having this discussion, but13-2 J losing to the champion on the last day sure counts as an equivalent ... kind of like the 14-1 J that got Terunofuji the rope. JSA and YDC certainly seem to think so. Hoshoryu needs a yusho for sure, but 13-2 Y or better is a stone-cold promotion. I can see them asking for more if it's 12-3. And you can look at someone like Kakuryu who had an undistinguished stint at Ozeki before putting together his run.

[Akinomaki 40,421]

On 11/01/2025 at 09:22, Akinomaki said:

As usual only minor quality by the NSK, but 4K spectator video provider @alpspapa this time posted from the event - usually he posts full day 15 coverage

I expected that he'd post more this basho, in the past up to 2 days a basho - this basho already the first 2 days, maybe much more to come https://www.youtube.com/@alpspapa/videos

[Gospodin 191]

3 hours ago, Reonito said:

 Hoshoryu needs a yusho for sure, but 13-2 Y or better is a stone-cold promotion. 

Hmmm, 13-2, he better doesn´t lose against a Maegashira and defeats Terunofuji. Otherwise I´d say 14-1.

[dingo 1,263]

5 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

Kotozakura didn't do much better

https://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx?b=202409

But crucially he got a yusho. That's always a tsuna run. Jun-yusho always comes with qualifications and we're not too far from a time when it didn't really count at all. 

[WAKATAKE 2,656]

4 minutes ago, dingo said:

But crucially he got a yusho. That's always a tsuna run. Jun-yusho always comes with qualifications and we're not too far from a time when it didn't really count at all. 

Yes that is correct. My response was in regards to Morty who is looking at the fact that Hoshoryu went 8-7 in Aki, but on a tsuna-run. In the past there seemed to be an unofficial criteria for not only two yusho or equivalent, but the basho before that run. It would seem that many yokozuna from the 80s and before were evaluated over a three basho stretch until the Kitao debacle, but that does not seem to be the case nowadays. What I wanted to point out was that Kotozakura had the exact same record as Hoshoryu in Aki

[Tigerboy1966 1,445]

The thing that we need to factor in is that they badly need a new, healthy yokozuna. In these circumstances I think they will be a bit more lenient than usual.

[Kaninoyama 1,777]

What a bloodbath today. Hoshoryu might just cruise to Yokozuna-hood. 

[Hankegami 537]

Good Day 4, everyone! A few sparse thought after watching the bouts live.

Tamawashi is on a goddamn fire. He dealt with TRAPSerufuji easy peasy. He can do a lot of damage from M10. Watch out, big guns!

Chiyoshoma is just the usual 'Shoma but keeps winning. He doesn't give grand vibes, but I can see him do good and reach the Joy with ease for Haru.

Oho - who is this crafty kid on the dohyo?! He robbed Daieisho of his win there! That arm pull was sick. Time to get to the san'yaku perhaps?

Now, the Ozeki. Onosato bridge is falling down over and over. Daiki boy, if you really want to keep falling upwards, at least look up to Ura and do it fashionably. Hoshoryu - wow! True danger there! Takanosho "almost won" for the fourth day in a row. Props to the Nephew for keeping his cool and running tables around. I also feel bad for 'Nosho, 0-4 despite all his efforts. And... Kotozakura goes 1-3, gifting Kirby his first win. Given how bad his record against Kirishima is, the JSA really saved him by stripping their match in Kyushu.

Finally, Terunofuji's knees failed him in the the musubi no ichiban. Tobizaru made him work Kotozakura-style until his knees clearly gave up. The mission is now "go through the full 15 days to meet Hoshoryu", I believe. Let's see if he can do that. If he starts losing more, he'll have to withdraw.

For the final comments, Hoshoryu remains by far the favored for the yusho for yet another day. The tournament is still long and the arasoi often changes after Day 10 (when the big boys begin to meet each other), but I cannot see the current san'yaku to be overly troublesome for this Nephew. Abi and Daieisho look more dangerous than the rest of san'yaku, but the Nephew knows them also. Further spoilers might come from the non-joy Maegashira (Oho, Chiyoshoma, Tamawashi), in case they manage to keep up with their current rhythm through two weeks.

6 hours ago, Morty said:

Hoshoryu being on a Tsuna run seems like the softest run of all time. His only yusho was a year and a half ago, and since then he has only got more than ten wins twice, both for jun-yushos. The basho before last he went 8-7. I thought it was supposed to be two yusho or yusho equivalents in a row, not J-Y. What am I missing here, how is a tsuna run justified at this time?

Be careful with using "of all time" in Ozumo  There is plenty of... interesting runs in the records. Most runs between the 1930s and the 1950s are quite the spectacle. Outright bogus runs (Musashiyama, Minanogawa), full use of equivalents (Akinoumi, Terukuni, Maedayama), single career Yusho propelling a promotion (Yoshibayama). The situation was somewhat stabilized from Tochinishiki onwards (1954), but a few Yokozuna were still given an easy hand of cards. Full equivalent promotions include Wakanohana II (1978, a single Yusho one year before), Mienoumi (1979, a single Yusho four years before), and of course Futahaguro (1986, no Yusho whatsoever). 

Anyway, Hoshoryu's run looks certainly weak in the post-Futahaguro era. However, it can be easily compared with the pre-Yokozuna career of Tochinoumi (promoted 1964) and Kitanofuji (1970, although they made him work for his promotion). Also Kakuryu had a relatively unimpressive career, although he got a couple of high pitched JY on his way up. But let's say this: Hoshoryu's sumo definitively stepped up - playing at the same level for two tournaments straight show that. The back-to-back "or equivalent" rule does exist to certify a change of pace more than having a minimal number of Yusho for the newly promoted Yokozuna. Sure, everyone would feel safer to get a stronger Yokozuna at the helm - but Kotozakura and especially Onosato are in fall season with no change of pacing on sight.

We must also notice that the JSA is forced to not be too picky in the current environment. In a sense, we are without a Yokozuna since 2022, and yet no one stepped up to the challenge. The field appears leveled enough to hamper the emergence of a dominant figure. Onosato looks like the one who will change this soon, but he must stop falling facepalm first. If Hoshoryu shows he's the guy to defeat to win any Yusho in the near future, let's give him the rope. Also, please notice that he still have to meet the minimal requirements. He's almost certainly not going to be promoted with an halfhearted Yusho. It's the hardest part of his current challenge actually. Otherwise, Takakeisho would gave gotten the rope back in 2023 given that the situation with Terunofuji was already very apparent back then.

[Tigerboy1966 1,445]

13 minutes ago, Hankegami said:

Takanosho "almost won" for the fourth day in a row.

He is taking on the role traditionally played by Hokutofuji: fight hard... look impressive... lose.

[Kaninoyama 1,777]

19 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

He is taking on the role traditionally played by Hokutofuji: fight hard... look impressive... lose.

Meisei is insulted by the oversight. 

[Leoben 139]

 

47 minutes ago, Hankegami said:

Oho - who is this crafty kid on the dohyo?! He robbed Daieisho of his win there! That arm pull was sick. Time to get to the san'yaku perhaps?

Also very impressed with Oho today. I didn't see any desperation or luck in his win, and it wasn't Daieisho who overextended. It felt calculated and was executed beautifully.

[RabidJohn 1,777]

Ura's unconventional acrobatic style is regularly entertaining, but what he did today to Takayasu was mind-boggling - even though I've seen him do it before.

Oho's hikiotoshi against Daieisho, though, was wonderful. I loved how he pulled himself back into balance at the same time as pulling Daieisho out.
His rise up the banzuke has been steady enough to be indiscernible at times, but it is progress.

I feel a little sorry for Tobizaru. He's reached his peak at a time when the sole yokozuna is more absent than present.
He could have been this generation's Akinoshima or Takatoriki with a couple of yokozuna to steal kinboshi from.
Such a contrast to the frozen wreck that faced Hakuho for the 1st time.

[BroadMeadow 43]

11 hours ago, Morty said:

Hoshoryu being on a Tsuna run seems like the softest run of all time. His only yusho was a year and a half ago, and since then he has only got more than ten wins twice, both for jun-yushos. The basho before last he went 8-7. I thought it was supposed to be two yusho or yusho equivalents in a row, not J-Y. What am I missing here, how is a tsuna run justified at this time?

We don't know how this tournament will end up, so it is hard to accurately judge his run. While he has had some underwhelming performances in the past year, he has never gone make-koshi in sanyaku. The last man promoted to yokozuna who could say that was Musashimaru. That says something I think. 

[dingo 1,263]

A lot to process and discuss today, so it was obviously a great day of sumo! 

Shonannoumi's hatakikomi was so obvious yet Hakuoho fell for it. I've no doubt that barring injury Hakuoho will press forward towards the joi but he should be able to avoid these kind of losses. The win is bright spark in Shonannoumi's basho so far though.

I would've preferred to see neither Takerufuji not Tamawashi lose today, but it was their matchup so one had to take the loss. I'm quite surprised it was Takerufuji who came up short. Speaks volumes of Tamawashi's physical shape this basho. But he also had great timing to push exactly when Takerufuji went for a pull, which really decided the bout. 

Takarafuji has had a bad start but I'm still hoping he will pick up at least a few wins to stay in makuuchi. Maybe he should get a few tips from fellow veteran Tamawashi. 

Did Shodai actually read the forum yesterday? Anyway some proactive sumo from him for a change and what a surprise, a win also. 

I can't stop being seriously impressed by Oho this basho. He was clearly losing to Daieisho in the pushing contest but instead of giving up like he used to, he instead thinks quickly, goes for tottari and grabs the win aided by great balancing on the tawara. Wonderful win again and very much deserved. Ok now I'm really gushing too much but I really like what I'm seeing from him. 

Abi must have secret ozeki plans himself. How else can you explain this performance against other ozeki. Yusho or jun-yusho this basho and maybe something will be in reach? 

Takanosho almost had Hoshoryu but almost doesn't count, does it. Great result for the yokozuna candidate, too bad for Takanosho. 

Kotozakura... maybe it's the pressure, maybe it's the after effects of many yusho celebrations, but he's a shadow of his last basho performance. I suppose he'll have to downgrade his goals to getting kachikoshi first. 

Tobizaru executed his sumo perfectly, keeping Terunofuji away, not letting him get a death grip and upsetting his balance which was the weak point. Well deserved win and kensho pack for the monkey. 

And also I can't finish without mentioning the spectacular way Ura got his first win. Win or lose he's highly entertaining and endearing, a great asset to sumo. 

[hakutorizakura 628]

Day 4 was very cool, and topped with purple rain. Feels it's been a long time since last time.

[dingo 1,263]

3 hours ago, BroadMeadow said:

We don't know how this tournament will end up, so it is hard to accurately judge his run. While he has had some underwhelming performances in the past year, he has never gone make-koshi in sanyaku. The last man promoted to yokozuna who could say that was Musashimaru. That says something I think. 

Kotozakura has never gone makekoshi in sanyaku either, though he has been there a year less than Hoshoryu. And if he doesn't pull himself together soon he has a chance of changing that...

[BroadMeadow 43]

27 minutes ago, dingo said:

Kotozakura has never gone makekoshi in sanyaku either, though he has been there a year less than Hoshoryu. And if he doesn't pull himself together soon he has a chance of changing that...

I am afraid you are right. The past 2 days he has looked totally dejected. I am not sure what the honor/shame calculus is for sports psychologists in Sumo...but if he doesn't get it together quick he'll be staring at kadoban in no time. 

[Gospodin 191]

It might not the first time I am wrong, but I see a lot of ring rust from Terunofuji.

 

[Kotomiyama 172]

It is not surprising that Ura is one of the favourites of the fans. What he did today justifies a ticket. Pure magic.

[Asashosakari 19,309]

I'm not usually one to question kimarite calls, but I don't know what more Oho could have done to make that a hikkake.

[Fashiritētā 181]

3 hours ago, Gospodin said:

It might not the first time I am wrong, but I see a lot of ring rust from Terunofuji.

 

More like, c’mon guys, one of you get the rope, my body is beat up from the feet up.

[Kaninoyama 1,777]

If Terunofuji can't finish the basho, is that the end of the rope for him (pardon the pun)? 

Edit: I guess we'll find out soon.

Edited January 16 by Kaninoyama

[Asashimaru 17]

Ura is a true magician with many tricks in his magic box. It's always exciting to see what he comes up with. Sometimes all it takes is a movement of his head to defeat his opponents.

He gives our beloved SUMO a refreshing breeze of acrobatics, which requires a high degree of body control and shows us again and again that there are many other admirable kimarite  besides the classic winning techniques. Even his exits from the dohyo are often spectacular and with style. Not to mention his unrivaled pre-fight ritual.

No wonder he is liked by many, including me. I am very grateful to be a contemporary witness of this exceptional finesse master with his way of sumo.

It will not surprise you that for similar reasons my other favorite rikishi include Takanoyama, Tokitenku for his many leg trips victories alone and Kyokushuzan for his rarely used kimarite victories.

 

[Koorifuu 990]

Well, this is disappointing.

[Shikona 148]

Poor Kotozakura. If getting manhandled by Shodai doesn't say "This ain't my basho," I don't know what does.