Hatsu 2025 discussion (results)

[yorikiried by fate 2,028]

5 hours ago, just_some_guy said:

It's wild looking back on a time when an Ozeki taking a yusho was uncommon and the thought of someone below Ozeki winning was absurd.

Top 5 of consecutive basho without a sub-Ozeki yusho:

V.68–XI.71    22 basho

XI.76–XI.80   25

V.86–V.91      31

V.93–XI.98    33

XI.01–V.12    63

Tough times to be Wakanosato...

[Reonito 1,457]

26 minutes ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Top 5 of consecutive basho without a sub-Ozeki yusho:

V.68–XI.71    22 basho

XI.76–XI.80   25

V.86–V.91      31

V.93–XI.98    33

XI.01–V.12    63

Tough times to be Wakanosato...

And right after that 63 was broken by Kyokutenho, there was a near run of ~32 from 2012.07-2017.11 interrupted only by Terunofuji's Sekiwake yusho. The longest run since then is four!

[Shikona 148]

On 29/01/2025 at 11:42, Bunbukuchagama said:

If it's true, it means that it is more advantageous for a tsunatori to finish the basho tied with other rikishi so that he could beat them heroically in a playoff than winning "in regulation" by having the best record on senshuraku. Which doesn't make much sense.

Unless you consider that in order to win in regulation with the same record means that that the opposition was not putting up strong competition. And consider some other sports--would it be more impressive to give the NFL championship to the team with the best regular season record without having to go through the playoffs and super bowl?

Edited February 1 by Shikona

[Yamanashi 3,840]

12 hours ago, just_some_guy said:

It's wild looking back on a time when an Ozeki taking a yusho was uncommon and the thought of someone below Ozeki winning was absurd.

When you view a basho with 10-12 members of San'yaku (Y-O-S-K) -- even if only half of them are healthy, how is an outsider going to get enough wins for a Yusho?

[just_some_guy 278]

On 31/01/2025 at 23:34, Yamanashi said:

When you view a basho with 10-12 members of San'yaku (Y-O-S-K) -- even if only half of them are healthy, how is an outsider going to get enough wins for a Yusho?

That's definitely part of the contrast. When I started watching (2015ish maybe?) we had three Yokozunae and (I think) four Ozeki. Anyone who reached K/S promptly got smacked back down to the M ranks. Different times indeed.

[Reonito 1,457]

1 hour ago, just_some_guy said:

That's definitely part of the contrast. When I started watching (2015ish maybe?) we had three Yokozunae and (I think) four Ozeki. Anyone who reached K/S promptly got smacked back down to the M ranks. Different times indeed.

Yeah, not a lot of guys could hang up there with any consistency. Three of the seven made Ozeki, and four of the seven won yusho (there's one prominent non-overlap between the two groups  )

[Seiyashi 4,087]

54 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Yeah, not a lot of guys could hang up there with any consistency. Three of the seven made Ozeki, and four of the seven won yusho (there's one prominent non-overlap between the two groups  )

I'm ashamed I even had to click on the link to figure out who the non-overlap was. 

[Koorifuu 994]

2 hours ago, Reonito said:

Yeah, not a lot of guys could hang up there with any consistency. Three of the seven made Ozeki, and four of the seven won yusho (there's one prominent non-overlap between the two groups  )

I was sure Toyonoshima would be the main one in that query. Then I realised I'm older than I thought.

[Akinomaki 40,481]

On 26/01/2025 at 10:00, Akinomaki said:

It wasn't good for Ishiba's back to hand over the 40kg cup - the yobidashi supported most of the weight, but it still looked a bit too much for the Prime Minister

Ishiba told that it was no problem for his back, he trained the handover with the cup at the event, instructed by NSK staff. He won't do it regularly - he doesn’t want to take away the spotlight from those who have this ceremony as part of their duty.

o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UET3ZtL6Ac

[Ack! 465]

4 hours ago, Reonito said:

Yeah, not a lot of guys could hang up there with any consistency. Three of the seven made Ozeki, and four of the seven won yusho (there's one prominent non-overlap between the two groups  )

I was was a big Tochiozan fan during this time when he was the best non-ozeki/yokozuna.  I called him "the best of the rest."  If he had peaked 5 years later, I think he would have made it.

[Reonito 1,457]

2 hours ago, Ack! said:

I was was a big Tochiozan fan during this time when he was the best non-ozeki/yokozuna.  I called him "the best of the rest."  If he had peaked 5 years later, I think he would have made it.

In his day, he never really came close—his best run in sanyaku was 11/9/10.

[Akinomaki 40,481]

Abema had their most ever viewers for sumo last basho - they posted a Terunofuji poster with messages by viewers  o

[Tochinofuji 384]

3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Abema had their most ever viewers for sumo last basho - they posted a Terunofuji poster with messages by viewers  o

I have to say, that is excellent image design to my eyes. 

[Reonito 1,457]

Oho is the 40th rikishi since 1958 to record 12 or more wins while ranked M1-M4. Four of the previous 39 used this as the first basho of a successful Ozeki run. (I used M4 as the cutoff as there has never been an Ozeki run starting lower than that.)

[Koorifuu 994]

Two assorted clips from senshuraku I've wanted to post, but kept delaying it.

Asatenmai doing Asatenmai things.

Ikazuchido not doing himself many favours.

Edited Wednesday at 21:17 by Koorifuu

[Octofuji 357]

39 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Oho is the 40th rikishi since 1958 to record 12 or more wins while ranked M1-M4. Four of the previous 39 used this as the first basho of a successful Ozeki run. (I used M4 as the cutoff as there has never been an Ozeki run starting lower than that.)

6 of the 40 got 33 wins or more in those three bashos. The exceptions who didn't get promoted were Takanosato (13 11 9) and Kotomitsuki (13 9 12).

That's a higher hit rate than I was expecting, I had thought that Ozeki runs starting from outside san'yaku were the exception.

[Reonito 1,457]

50 minutes ago, Octofuji said:

6 of the 40 got 33 wins or more in those three bashos. The exceptions who didn't get promoted were Takanosato (13 11 9) and Kotomitsuki (13 9 12).

That's a higher hit rate than I was expecting, I had thought that Ozeki runs starting from outside san'yaku were the exception.

I guess they sort of are? Seven of 69 Ozeki promotions since 1958 started at maegashira (3 of them starting with <12 wins). For something like a like-to-like comparison, 4 of 39 with 12+ wins at M1-M4 were promoted two basho later, vs. 8 of 17 for those starting at K and 3 of 11 for those starting at S.

[Leoben 139]

3 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

Ikazuchido not doing himself many favours.

Is this a recurring thing? I haven't followed him closely but I'm pretty sure it's not the first time I've read about him lacking decorum.

[Sumo Spiffy 560]

6 hours ago, Octofuji said:

6 of the 40 got 33 wins or more in those three bashos. The exceptions who didn't get promoted were Takanosato (13 11 9) and Kotomitsuki (13 9 12).

That's a higher hit rate than I was expecting, I had thought that Ozeki runs starting from outside san'yaku were the exception.

The four ozeki runs hit 37, 36, 35, and 37 wins. The two you mentioned who didn't get there were at 33 and 34.

Something to consider with respect to what it would take, maybe—gotta hit an undeniable level to get there.

[Kaito 292]

37 minutes ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

The four ozeki runs hit 37, 36, 35, and 37 wins. The two you mentioned who didn't get there were at 33 and 34.

Something to consider with respect to what it would take, maybe—gotta hit an undeniable level to get there.

I'd point out though, that these rikishi are being grouped for their strong 1st legs of a potential run, whereas the committee wants to see an upward trajectory with a strong final leg, ideally. So it makes sense that the rikishi who made ozeki ended up well past the 33 expected, and it's easy to imagine why Takanosato didn't make the grade ending on a 9. Maybe if his results were reversed, he had a chance? But then I look at Kotomitsuki and have no idea why that wasn't good enough, so... 

[dingo 1,263]

2 hours ago, Kaito said:

But then I look at Kotomitsuki and have no idea why that wasn't good enough, so... 

I guess that 9 in the middle was damning. 9 wins is not exactly strong ozeki candidate territory. Maybe with 10 he would've gotten it. 

[Seiyashi 4,087]

He was also only in makuuchi for a year at that time and had posted 2 MKs in the sanyaku. Not exactly Ōnosato. 

[Koorifuu 994]

15 hours ago, Leoben said:

Is this a recurring thing? I haven't followed him closely but I'm pretty sure it's not the first time I've read about him lacking decorum.

I was hoping someone else can confirm that; I don't watch that many bouts below makushita, but in the 4 or 5 times I've seen him, this was the only worrying exhibit.

Edited Thursday at 16:20 by Koorifuu

[Sumo Spiffy 560]

On 05/02/2025 at 22:38, Kaito said:

I'd point out though, that these rikishi are being grouped for their strong 1st legs of a potential run, whereas the committee wants to see an upward trajectory with a strong final leg, ideally. So it makes sense that the rikishi who made ozeki ended up well past the 33 expected, and it's easy to imagine why Takanosato didn't make the grade ending on a 9. Maybe if his results were reversed, he had a chance? But then I look at Kotomitsuki and have no idea why that wasn't good enough, so... 

I looked right past that. The last basho has to be 10+. He wouldn't have been promoted on that basis.

[Octofuji 357]

On 05/02/2025 at 22:23, Reonito said:

I guess they sort of are? Seven of 69 Ozeki promotions since 1958 started at maegashira (3 of them starting with <12 wins). For something like a like-to-like comparison, 4 of 39 with 12+ wins at M1-M4 were promoted two basho later, vs. 8 of 17 for those starting at K and 3 of 11 for those starting at S.

Thanks, I worded that badly. What I was trying to say is for 33+ Ozeki runs starting from outside san'yaku, I had thought most of them would be denied. But Spiffy's explanation makes sense, the ones who did get promoted made themselves hard to ignore.

Looking at all M1-M4s who got 33+ wins, 7 out of 12 became Ozeki. Starting from san'yaku, it's almost guaranteed (42 out of 46, the exceptions being Miyabiyama (X2), Baruto and Takakeisho.