rhyen 1,842 Posted January 13 Has anyone ever compiled a list of former yokozuna who taught the new yokozuna the dohyo iri? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaitetsu 294 Posted January 13 (edited) 17 hours ago, rhyen said: Has anyone ever compiled a list of former yokozuna who taught the new yokozuna the dohyo iri? I dont recall seeing one, but off the top of my head I can recall, mostly based on photos Ive seen online: Takanohana taught-> Kakuryu Asahifuji taught-> Hakuho, Harumafuji, Terunofuji Akebono taught-> Asashoryu Edit: Im now going throught the internet and found photos of: Wakanohana I taught-> Onokuni taught-> Kisenosato Sadanoyama taught-> Mienoumi taught-> Musashimaru Takanosato taught-> Wakanohana III Chiyonoyama taught-> Kitanofuji taught-> Chiyonofuji taught -> Hokutoumi Taiho taught-> Wajima, Kotozakura (surprising but there is a photo that corroborates that), Tamanoumi Tochigiyama taught-> Tochinishiki taught-> Tochinoumi, Kitanoumi P.S.: Although I couldnt find direct photos, its only logical that Kitanofuji taught Hokutoumi too (Hankegami corrected me on this one) and that Wakanohana I taught Wakanohana II Edited January 14 by Kaitetsu 3 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Washuyama 641 Posted January 13 1 hour ago, Kaitetsu said: Wakanohana I taught Wakanohana II With the assistance of Wajima, I believe... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hankegami 537 Posted January 13 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kaitetsu said: P.S.: Although I couldnt find direct photos, its only logical that Kitanofuji taught Hokutoumi too and that Wakanohana I taught Wakanohana II. Also I can only imagine that Tochinishiki taught Tochinoumi I remember from a documentary about Chiyonofuji that Chiyonofuji himself taught Hokutoumi, not Kitanofuji. I guess it was a deal between the three of them. Also, Tochigiyama taught Tochinishiki. It's all over the place in their dohyo-iri. I think it was also shown in another documentary about 1950s sumo, but I'm less sure about this. EDIT: I second that Taiho taught Kotozakura. I think that there was no shiranui practitioner available for Kotozakura (Yoshibayama was still alive but perhaps undisposed), so I guess Taiho had to look after the style himself. Edited January 13 by Hankegami 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gernobono 466 Posted January 13 Akebono taught Asashoryu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hankegami 537 Posted January 14 Out of curiosity, I tried to dig somewhat deeper than photographic evidence can give us. Among other things, I noticed the following patterns. The new yokozuna has free of choice in choosing his style, with asterisks. General freedom: Kisenosato chose Unryu despite his late oyakata (Takanosato) were a Shiranui practictioner. Referencing is still strong: the vast majority of Shiranui practictioner belong to the Isegahama ichimon - and that's not because of Asahifuji. It can be traced back to Tachiyama, the first modern practitioner of this style. Besides from exception, a yokozuna deshi almost always follows the style of his yokozuna Oyakata. The teacher virtually always belong to the same ichimon of the new Yokozuna. Teachers from other ichimon actually appear barred from teaching the dohyo-iri new yokozuna from another ichimon. The only documented exception to that is Takanohana (Takanohana) teaching Kakuryu (Tokitsukaze) - but the Tokitsukaze Ichimon had literally no Yokozuna available. By the rule mentioned above, Kakuryu should have been taught by Kashiwado - who died sixteen years before his promotion. Kotozakura (I) was taught by Taiho (same Nihonoseki ichimon) likely because the Yoshibayama belonged to the Isegahama ichimon. The Oyakata (whether being a yokozuna who practiced the same style) is the preferential teacher over other yokozuna of the same ichimon. Those considerations helped me to re-create the most likely "lineages", going back to the late 19th century but not before, for reasons I will explain in the following lines, including little evidence for an ichimon system before this time. The first 5 Yokozuna up to Onomatsu didn't have anyone that could tech them the style - it was also very new back then. I also believe that the yokozuna dohyo-iri was once the same dohyo-iri made in group by the other wrestlers. The latter became increasingly stylized as the number of wrestlers increased and room for movements was reduced. There was then little reason to believe that they were taught the movements by anyone but their oyakata himself as the basic dohyo-iri. Things start to be more complicated with the elevation of Inazuma as the 7th Yokozuna (1830), while the 6th Yokozuna Onomatsu was still active. It is not impossible that Onomatsu taught the dohyo-iri to Inazuma, but I think it's unlikely. There was no such tradition back then, and there is no evidence that the dohyo-iri already represented the status symbol it became later on. Anyway, Inazuma himself didn't become an oyakata after his retirement (1839) apparently, although both him and Onomatsu could have been around when the 8th Yokozuna Shiranui (I) was elevated to the rank (1840). Also, Onomatsu and Shiranui were both oyakata when the 9th yokozuna Hidenoyama got the rank (1847). However, their involvement in either case it's pure speculation. Then we come to the first "dohyo-iri stars" of Ozumo, the 10th Yokozuna Unryu (1861) and the 11th, Shiranui II (1863). It is most likely that Unryu created his style himself (paradoxically the Shiranui style), while in the latter case we have the first virtually ascertained passage, Shiranui I > Shiranui II, he former being the oyakata of the latter. For those who didn't catch up with the news, it is virtually certain today that Unryu invented the Shiranui style, and Shiranui II the Unryu style, only for their names to be mixed up later on. The main piece of evidence is an 1869 photo of Shiranui II and newly promoted 13th Yokozuna Kimenzan (see here), the former showing the unryu style to the left, while the other mimicking the Shiranui style to the right - there are several other photos showing Shiranui doing Unryu, so they weren't imitating each other there. That's also enough evidence for concluding that also Kimenzan used the Shiranui, which give us the passage Unryu > Kimenzan (1869), Unryu being an oyakata at the time. That's harder to say who taught the 12th Yokozuna Jinmaku (1867, a documented Unryu practitioner) and the 14th Yokozuna Sakaigawa (1877). In theory, Unryu was still alive back then (died 1879), but their promotion is to be framed in the context of the Boshin War, which destabilized also the sumo world and produced several unofficial Yokozuna in absence of a recognized authority. We reach some safer ground with the 15th Yokozuna, Umegatani I (promoted 1884). Although not assured, it is likely that we have Sakaigawa > Umegatani I. Both men belonged to the Dewanoumi ichimon (if more modern factions are to be trusted), and anyway Sakaigawa was the only Yokozuna that remained as an oyakata (Jinmaku covered several official posts in his retirement). The death of Sakaigawa himself in 1887 also leaves Umegatani I as the only available teacher for Nishinoumi I (1890), while it is possible that the latter taught his stablemate Konishiki the ritual (1896). The same might have been done by Konishiki when Ozutsu was promoted (1901). Also, notice that those Yokozuna, from Nishinoumi I to Ozutsu, were successive - a new one was selected when the previous retired. Teaching the style might have constituted a moment of "passing the torch", possibly. After him, both Hitachiyama and Umegatani II (1903) were likely taught by Umegatani I, being all part of the Dewanoumi ichimon. Therefore, we have the following likely succession schemes leading to the present day: Spoiler Sakaigawa (likely self-taught, 1877) died 1887 - Dewanoumi main line Umegatani I (1884), Ikazuchi-oyakata, 1885-1915 (died 1928) Dewanoumi Nishinoumi I (1890), Takasago > Tokitsukaze Konishiki (1896) Takasago Ozutsu (1901), Nihonoseki deshi Nishinoumi II (1916) Tokitsukaze deshi Nishinoumi III (1923) Tokitsukaze Hitachiyama (1903) Dewanoumi Tachiyama (1911) Isegahama - CONJECTURE Wikipedia reports that he was often coached by Hitachiyama ototo-deshi Otori (1915) Isegahama - CONJECTURE Tachiyama was the only yokozuna in the ichimon back then Futabayama (1937) Isegahama > Tokitsukaze - LIKELY Otori was the only option available for the ichimon Maedayama (1947) Takasago - CONJECTURE Takasago did not have yokozuna, and Maedayama was close to Futabayama deshi Azumafuji (1948) Takasago deshi Asashio III (1959) Takasago deshi Kagamisato (1953) Tokitsukaze Kashiwado (1961) Tokitsukaze Wakanohana I (1958) Nihonoseki - CONJECTURE Nihonoseki did not have a living yokozuna, also Futabayama gave Wakanohana his kensho-mawashi since the ichimon didn't have any. Taiho (1961) Nihonoseki - LIKELY Wakanohana was the only yokozuna in the ichimon Tamanoumi (1970) Nihonoseki Kotozakura (1973) Nihonoseki Takanosato (1983) Nihonoseki - LIKELY only other Shiranui practitioner in the ichimon Futahaguro (1986) Isegahama - CONJECTURE Isegahama had no yokozuna alive, they shared the same Shiranui style, and Futahaguro was much promoted to cover for Takanosato's retirement Asahifuji (1990) Isegahama - CONJECTURE Same reasons, either him or Kotozakura Hakuho (2007) Isegahama Harumafuji (2012) Isegahama Terunofuji (2021) Isegahama Wakanohana III (1998) Nihonoseki Wajima (1974) Nihonoseki Wakanohana II (1978) Nihonoseki > Takanohana > Isegahama Onokuni (1987) Nihonoseki Takanohana (1994) Nihonoseki LIKELY With Wakanohana I retired, Onokuni was the only option besides Wakanohana II, which had probably a bad relationship with the Hanada family back then. Kakuryu (2014) Tokitsukaze Kisenosato (2017) Nihonoseki Haguroyama (1941) Isegahama - LIKELY especially since Otori was possibly taught by Tachiyama, who also practiced Shiranui Yoshibayama (1954) Isegahama - LIKELY only other Shiranui practitioner in the ichimon Terukuni (1942) Isegahama - LIKELY unless Futabayama taught him instead deshi Onishiki (1914) Dewanoumi deshi Tochigiyama (1918) Dewanoumi Tamanishiki (1932) Nihonoseki - CONJECTURE Wikipedia reports that he was often coached by Tochigiyama ototo-deshi Minanogawa (1936) Nihonoseki - CONJECTURE Tamanishiki was the only yokozuna in the ichimon back then deshi Tochinishiki (1954), Dewanoumi deshi Tochinoumi (1964), Dewanoumi Sadanoyama (1968) Dewanoumi - LIKELY Tochinishiki was the only yokozuna left in the ichimon back then Mienoumi (1979) Dewanoumi Musashimaru (1999) Dewanoumi Kitanoumi (1974), Dewanoumi deshi Umegatani II (1903), Dewanoumi Tsunenohana (1924) Dewanoumi - CONJECTURE Umegatani II was the only oyakata available in the ichimon ototo-deshi Musashiyama (1935) Dewanoumi ototo-deshi Akinoumi (1942) Dewanoumi deshi Chiyonoyama (1951) Dewanoumi > Takasago deshi Kitanofuji (1970) Takasago deshi Chiyonofuji (1981) Takasago ototo-deshi Hokutoumi (1987) Takasago Akebono (1993) Takasago - CONJECTURE Akebono needed a Takasago teacher, and Hokutoumi had yet to teach anyone Asashoryu (1993) Takasago 8 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaitetsu 294 Posted January 15 16 hours ago, Hankegami said: Therefore, we have the following likely succession schemes leading to the present day: Reveal hidden contents Sakaigawa (likely self-taught, 1877) died 1887 - Dewanoumi main line Umegatani I (1884), Ikazuchi-oyakata, 1885-1915 (died 1928) Dewanoumi Nishinoumi I (1890), Takasago > Tokitsukaze Konishiki (1896) Takasago Ozutsu (1901), Nihonoseki deshi Nishinoumi II (1916) Tokitsukaze deshi Nishinoumi III (1923) Tokitsukaze Hitachiyama (1903) Dewanoumi Tachiyama (1911) Isegahama - CONJECTURE Wikipedia reports that he was often coached by Hitachiyama ototo-deshi Otori (1915) Isegahama - CONJECTURE Tachiyama was the only yokozuna in the ichimon back then Futabayama (1937) Isegahama > Tokitsukaze - LIKELY Otori was the only option available for the ichimon Maedayama (1947) Takasago - CONJECTURE Takasago did not have yokozuna, and Maedayama was close to Futabayama deshi Azumafuji (1948) Takasago deshi Asashio III (1959) Takasago deshi Kagamisato (1953) Tokitsukaze Kashiwado (1961) Tokitsukaze Wakanohana I (1958) Nihonoseki - CONJECTURE Nihonoseki did not have a living yokozuna, also Futabayama gave Wakanohana his kensho-mawashi since the ichimon didn't have any. Taiho (1961) Nihonoseki - LIKELY Wakanohana was the only yokozuna in the ichimon Tamanoumi (1970) Nihonoseki Kotozakura (1973) Nihonoseki Takanosato (1983) Nihonoseki - LIKELY only other Shiranui practitioner in the ichimon Futahaguro (1986) Isegahama - CONJECTURE Isegahama had no yokozuna alive, they shared the same Shiranui style, and Futahaguro was much promoted to cover for Takanosato's retirement Asahifuji (1990) Isegahama - CONJECTURE Same reasons, either him or Kotozakura Hakuho (2007) Isegahama Harumafuji (2012) Isegahama Terunofuji (2021) Isegahama Wakanohana III (1998) Nihonoseki Wajima (1974) Nihonoseki Wakanohana II (1978) Nihonoseki > Takanohana > Isegahama Onokuni (1987) Nihonoseki Takanohana (1994) Nihonoseki LIKELY With Wakanohana I retired, Onokuni was the only option besides Wakanohana II, which had probably a bad relationship with the Hanada family back then. Kakuryu (2014) Tokitsukaze Kisenosato (2017) Nihonoseki Haguroyama (1941) Isegahama - LIKELY especially since Otori was possibly taught by Tachiyama, who also practiced Shiranui Yoshibayama (1954) Isegahama - LIKELY only other Shiranui practitioner in the ichimon Terukuni (1942) Isegahama - LIKELY unless Futabayama taught him instead deshi Onishiki (1914) Dewanoumi deshi Tochigiyama (1918) Dewanoumi Tamanishiki (1932) Nihonoseki - CONJECTURE Wikipedia reports that he was often coached by Tochigiyama ototo-deshi Minanogawa (1936) Nihonoseki - CONJECTURE Tamanishiki was the only yokozuna in the ichimon back then deshi Tochinishiki (1954), Dewanoumi deshi Tochinoumi (1964), Dewanoumi Sadanoyama (1968) Dewanoumi - LIKELY Tochinishiki was the only yokozuna left in the ichimon back then Mienoumi (1979) Dewanoumi Musashimaru (1999) Dewanoumi Kitanoumi (1974), Dewanoumi deshi Umegatani II (1903), Dewanoumi Tsunenohana (1924) Dewanoumi - CONJECTURE Umegatani II was the only oyakata available in the ichimon ototo-deshi Musashiyama (1935) Dewanoumi ototo-deshi Akinoumi (1942) Dewanoumi deshi Chiyonoyama (1951) Dewanoumi > Takasago deshi Kitanofuji (1970) Takasago deshi Chiyonofuji (1981) Takasago ototo-deshi Hokutoumi (1987) Takasago Akebono (1993) Takasago - CONJECTURE Akebono needed a Takasago teacher, and Hokutoumi had yet to teach anyone Asashoryu (1993) Takasago This whole post is fascinating research!! Thank you 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seiyashi 4,091 Posted January 16 This should go on UsefulCharts. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhyen 1,842 Posted January 17 One of the cheekiest things I saw today was the NSK 100th anniversary calendar with the historical list of yokozuna. Isegahama heya highlighted Asahifuji, Hakuho, Harumafuji & Terunofuji. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morning 80 Posted January 17 1 hour ago, rhyen said: One of the cheekiest things I saw today was the NSK 100th anniversary calendar with the historical list of yokozuna. Isegahama heya highlighted Asahifuji, Hakuho, Harumafuji & Terunofuji. One of those is not like the others. Terunofuji has no h in his name and was still active at time of printing, I wouldn't call that historical. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yarimotsu 579 Posted January 21 On 15/01/2025 at 05:37, Hankegami said: Those considerations helped me to re-create the most likely "lineages", going back to the late 19th century but not before, for reasons I will explain in the following lines, including little evidence for an ichimon system before this time. I think we can refine the chart somewhat based on existing referenced sources. For example, you've listed it as 'likely' that Kotozakura I taught Takanosato - on the jp wikipedia, this is confirmed via an asahi shimbun reference. I'd be keen to go through it a bit more. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hankegami 537 Posted January 23 (edited) On 21/01/2025 at 05:48, Yarimotsu said: I think we can refine the chart somewhat based on existing referenced sources. For example, you've listed it as 'likely' that Kotozakura I taught Takanosato - on the jp wikipedia, this is confirmed via an asahi shimbun reference. I'd be keen to go through it a bit more. My Japanese is not exactly competitive, so I seldom give any look to the Japanese Wikipedia - thanks a lot! I also managed to find new evidence - Sadanoyama being taught the dohyo-iri. I hypothesized it was Tochinishiki by logic, but unfortunately this specific footage only shows a meaty oyakata whose features are unclear because of the angle and the light. He nevertheless shows a remarkable resemblance (both in meatiness and in his suit - a shirt with tie) to the confirmed mugshot of Tochinishiki (Kasugano-oyakata) teaching Tochinoumi the dohyo-iri just one year before, in 1964. I'd say that we can confidently conclude that it was again Tochinishiki. By the way, here you can find Chiyonofuji teaching Hokutoumi the dohyo-iri - found it by chance while searching around. In general, there's surely more evidence - a promising source is this Japanese video channel which provides separate career videos for every Yokozuna from Futabayama onward. I will further check trough it whenever I get time. Edited January 23 by Hankegami 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kamitsuumi 400 Posted January 23 In the Sadanoyama video, the narration confirms it as Tochinishiki 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rokudenashi 323 Posted January 27 I've cobbled together a visualisation of @Hankegami's fine research here https://bleloch.github.io/yokozuna-dohyoiri-lineage/ as I thought it would be well represented in this kind of format. if I've got anything wrong in the data or you're having issues viewing it, let me know. Not a web developer so don't expect too much 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gurowake 4,062 Posted January 27 (edited) 56 minutes ago, rokudenashi said: I've cobbled together a visualisation of @Hankegami's fine research here https://bleloch.github.io/yokozuna-dohyoiri-lineage/ as I thought it would be well represented in this kind of format. if I've got anything wrong in the data or you're having issues viewing it, let me know. Not a web developer so don't expect too much That's rather better than I could do. It took me a while to realize there was mouseover text - it didn't show at all until I zoomed in to try to get a better look at all the portraits, since I wasn't being shown names (yet). Edited January 27 by Gurowake Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaitetsu 294 Posted January 27 1 hour ago, rokudenashi said: I've cobbled together a visualisation of @Hankegami's fine research here https://bleloch.github.io/yokozuna-dohyoiri-lineage/ as I thought it would be well represented in this kind of format. if I've got anything wrong in the data or you're having issues viewing it, let me know. Not a web developer so don't expect too much Just a little typo, you`ve put Hakuho's stable as Magaki instead of Miyagino 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mugatake 44 Posted January 27 (edited) On 14/01/2025 at 13:37, Hankegami said: Hide contents Sakaigawa (likely self-taught, 1877) died 1887 - Dewanoumi main line Umegatani I (1884), Ikazuchi-oyakata, 1885-1915 (died 1928) Dewanoumi Nishinoumi I (1890), Takasago > Tokitsukaze Konishiki (1896) Takasago Ozutsu (1901), Nihonoseki deshi Nishinoumi II (1916) Tokitsukaze deshi Nishinoumi III (1923) Tokitsukaze Hitachiyama (1903) Dewanoumi Tachiyama (1911) Isegahama - CONJECTURE Wikipedia reports that he was often coached by Hitachiyama ototo-deshi Otori (1915) Isegahama - CONJECTURE Tachiyama was the only yokozuna in the ichimon back then Futabayama (1937) Isegahama > Tokitsukaze - LIKELY Otori was the only option available for the ichimon Maedayama (1947) Takasago - CONJECTURE Takasago did not have yokozuna, and Maedayama was close to Futabayama deshi Azumafuji (1948) Takasago deshi Asashio III (1959) Takasago deshi Kagamisato (1953) Tokitsukaze Kashiwado (1961) Tokitsukaze Wakanohana I (1958) Nihonoseki - CONJECTURE Nihonoseki did not have a living yokozuna, also Futabayama gave Wakanohana his kensho-mawashi since the ichimon didn't have any. Taiho (1961) Nihonoseki - LIKELY Wakanohana was the only yokozuna in the ichimon Tamanoumi (1970) Nihonoseki Kotozakura (1973) Nihonoseki Takanosato (1983) Nihonoseki - LIKELY only other Shiranui practitioner in the ichimon Futahaguro (1986) Isegahama - CONJECTURE Isegahama had no yokozuna alive, they shared the same Shiranui style, and Futahaguro was much promoted to cover for Takanosato's retirement Asahifuji (1990) Isegahama - CONJECTURE Same reasons, either him or Kotozakura Hakuho (2007) Isegahama Harumafuji (2012) Isegahama Terunofuji (2021) Isegahama Wakanohana III (1998) Nihonoseki Wajima (1974) Nihonoseki Wakanohana II (1978) Nihonoseki > Takanohana > Isegahama Onokuni (1987) Nihonoseki Takanohana (1994) Nihonoseki LIKELY With Wakanohana I retired, Onokuni was the only option besides Wakanohana II, which had probably a bad relationship with the Hanada family back then. Kakuryu (2014) Tokitsukaze Kisenosato (2017) Nihonoseki Haguroyama (1941) Isegahama - LIKELY especially since Otori was possibly taught by Tachiyama, who also practiced Shiranui Yoshibayama (1954) Isegahama - LIKELY only other Shiranui practitioner in the ichimon Terukuni (1942) Isegahama - LIKELY unless Futabayama taught him instead deshi Onishiki (1914) Dewanoumi deshi Tochigiyama (1918) Dewanoumi Tamanishiki (1932) Nihonoseki - CONJECTURE Wikipedia reports that he was often coached by Tochigiyama ototo-deshi Minanogawa (1936) Nihonoseki - CONJECTURE Tamanishiki was the only yokozuna in the ichimon back then deshi Tochinishiki (1954), Dewanoumi deshi Tochinoumi (1964), Dewanoumi Sadanoyama (1968) Dewanoumi - LIKELY Tochinishiki was the only yokozuna left in the ichimon back then Mienoumi (1979) Dewanoumi Musashimaru (1999) Dewanoumi Kitanoumi (1974), Dewanoumi deshi Umegatani II (1903), Dewanoumi Tsunenohana (1924) Dewanoumi - CONJECTURE Umegatani II was the only oyakata available in the ichimon ototo-deshi Musashiyama (1935) Dewanoumi ototo-deshi Akinoumi (1942) Dewanoumi deshi Chiyonoyama (1951) Dewanoumi > Takasago deshi Kitanofuji (1970) Takasago deshi Chiyonofuji (1981) Takasago ototo-deshi Hokutoumi (1987) Takasago Akebono (1993) Takasago - CONJECTURE Akebono needed a Takasago teacher, and Hokutoumi had yet to teach anyone Asashoryu (1993) Takasago Tachiyama claimed he was taught by the 16th Kimura Shounosuke. I'm not sure how far back the tradition of one yokozuna teaching the next extends, but I would wager it started somewhere around the Hitachi-Ume era. Edited January 27 by mugatake 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hankegami 537 Posted January 27 (edited) 3 hours ago, mugatake said: Tachiyama claimed he was taught by the 16th Kimura Shounosuke. I'm not sure how far back the tradition of one yokozuna teaching the next extends, but I would wager it started somewhere around the Hitachi-Ume era. This detail about Tachiyama is most interesting. I assumed he was taught by yet another Yokozuna despite of his use of the Shiranui style. Given our more recent evidence of Taiho teaching Kotozakura, I assumed similar circumstances. I was wrong. Anyway, it is clear that my preliminary chart is to be updated as we gather more evidence. One thing we should dig deeper is the role of the gyoji until at least the 1920s. Aside from Tachiyama' s case, I recall that Tochigiyama took over Takasago stable from yet another gyoji (Kimura Soshiro). This shows that gyoji once had experience as sumo coaches, which is probably the reason Tachiyama was taught by one of them. Also, Tachiyama was part of Tomozuna stable, but unfortunately I don't have sources for its history before 1946 (foundation of the most recent stable with this name). I cannot check if his teacher was also his stable master. Alternatively, how old was the 16th Shonosuke? He might have been asked to teach Tachiyama as a prime witness of Unryu's dohyo iri. Back to the general topic, it's hard to ascertain whenever Yokozuna began to teach the dohyo iri to each other. I remain positive that it became a separate skill as soon as the general dohyo-iri became increasingly stylised. Sumo DB shows that Makuuchi was made up of just 20 rikishi up to the 1870s. Their number was gradually expanded in the 1880s to about 24 wrestlers, then 26 (1883) 28 (1884), 30 (1889), 36 (1893) - well, we get the trend. However, photographic evidence shows that the focus of the Yokozuna dohyo-iri already shifted from the stomps (as depicted in most woodblocks) to the pose in the 1860s, with a few woodblocks showing Unryu with his open arms, and the 1869 photos of Shiranui II and Kimenzan in poses. In short, I still think that my graph is still generally acceptable (the trend has to be started at some point between the 1860s and 1890s), but we must double check the single cases to be really sure. The best teacher for a Yokozuna dohyo-iri is a fellow Yokozuna, but exceptions are still possible in some cases (Tachiyama wanted to learn a long forgotten style). On a last note, I want to express all my admiration to @rokudenashi for his wonderful interactive chart - it's just too cool! Just be ready to add one more photo in a few days (most likely under Musashimaru, who is the only Yokozuna-Oyakata in force at the Dewanoumi ichimon) Edited January 27 by Hankegami 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yorikiried by fate 2,028 Posted January 27 Threads like this, starting with a one line question and erupting into fireworks of research and info condensing, that's what I'm here for!! Well done. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mugatake 44 Posted January 27 3 hours ago, Hankegami said: This detail about Tachiyama is most interesting. I assumed he was taught by yet another Yokozuna despite of his use of the Shiranui style. Given our more recent evidence of Taiho teaching Kotozakura, I assumed similar circumstances. I was wrong. Anyway, it is clear that my preliminary chart is to be updated as we gather more evidence. One thing we should dig deeper is the role of the gyoji until at least the 1920s. Aside from Tachiyama' s case, I recall that Tochigiyama took over Takasago stable from yet another gyoji (Kimura Soshiro). This shows that gyoji once had experience as sumo coaches, which is probably the reason Tachiyama was taught by one of them. Also, Tachiyama was part of Tomozuna stable, but unfortunately I don't have sources for its history before 1946 (foundation of the most recent stable with this name). I cannot check if his teacher was also his stable master. Alternatively, how old was the 16th Shonosuke? He might have been asked to teach Tachiyama as a prime witness of Unryu's dohyo iri. Looks like Tachiyama's oyakata was Kaizan I, and Shounosuke 16 was 61 years old when Tachiyama was promoted. Shounosuke appears to have joined sumo in 1864 and Unryuu retired in 1865, so that works out. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rokudenashi 323 Posted January 27 15 hours ago, Gurowake said: That's rather better than I could do. It took me a while to realize there was mouseover text - it didn't show at all until I zoomed in to try to get a better look at all the portraits, since I wasn't being shown names (yet). Indeed, that wasn't very clear at first. I've added a legend to the page to clarify. 14 hours ago, Kaitetsu said: Just a little typo, you`ve put Hakuho's stable as Magaki instead of Miyagino Thanks, fixed now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faustonowaka 129 Posted January 27 And another update: Musashimaru will teach Hoshoryu 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rokudenashi 323 Posted January 27 There are four names missing from the research who were contemporaries of those we do have information for: #21 Wakashima Gonshirō His stable master, ōzeki Wakashima Kyūzaburō, notably performed the yokozuna dohyō-iri on the Summer 1881 jungyō in place of recently retired #14 Sakaigawa - despite not having a yokozuna license. It's therefore reasonable to suggest that he is a descendant of Sakaigawa despite not being taught directly. Source #23 Ōkido Moriemon There is a mention in this bio that he received training (generally, not dohyō-iri) from Hitachiyama upon joining the Tōkyō association #28 Ōnishiki Daigorō This photo shows him possibly performing Unryū His Japanese Wikipedia article references from NHK Ōzumō Journal the following- Sometime between 1910 and 1916 he was recruited to join the Tōkyō association by Hitachiyama, but that he refused out of loyalty, only joining once his original stablemaster passed away in 1916. He was promoted in 1918, the same year as Tochigiyama who was indeed taught by Hitachiyama, and also performed Unryū. #29 Miyagiyama Fukumatsu This photo shows him possibly performing Unryū, otherwise at the beginning of Shiranui 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hankegami 537 Posted January 27 30 minutes ago, rokudenashi said: There are four names missing from the research who were contemporaries of those we do have information for: #21 Wakashima Gonshirō His stable master, ōzeki Wakashima Kyūzaburō, notably performed the yokozuna dohyō-iri on the Summer 1881 jungyō in place of recently retired #14 Sakaigawa - despite not having a yokozuna license. It's therefore reasonable to suggest that he is a descendant of Sakaigawa despite not being taught directly. Source #23 Ōkido Moriemon There is a mention in this bio that he received training (generally, not dohyō-iri) from Hitachiyama upon joining the Tōkyō association #28 Ōnishiki Daigorō This photo shows him possibly performing Unryū His Japanese Wikipedia article references from NHK Ōzumō Journal the following- Sometime between 1910 and 1916 he was recruited to join the Tōkyō association by Hitachiyama, but that he refused out of loyalty, only joining once his original stablemaster passed away in 1916. He was promoted in 1918, the same year as Tochigiyama who was indeed taught by Hitachiyama, and also performed Unryū. #29 Miyagiyama Fukumatsu This photo shows him possibly performing Unryū, otherwise at the beginning of Shiranui They are the Osaka sumo Yokozuna. I left them out because they belonged to a different association altogether, and I have zero clues about their customs on teaching dohyo-iri. Also, Miyagiyama is definitely performing Unryu there: he's getting up after the squat. Onishiki (D) also performed Unryu, our best known photo of him clearly shows that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryafuji 815 Posted January 27 On 14/01/2025 at 16:37, Hankegami said: The teacher virtually always belong to the same ichimon of the new Yokozuna. Teachers from other ichimon actually appear barred from teaching the dohyo-iri new yokozuna from another ichimon. The only documented exception to that is Takanohana (Takanohana) teaching Kakuryu (Tokitsukaze) - but the Tokitsukaze Ichimon had literally no Yokozuna available. By the rule mentioned above, Kakuryu should have been taught by Kashiwado - who died sixteen years before his promotion. Kotozakura (I) was taught by Taiho (same Nihonoseki ichimon) likely because the Yoshibayama belonged to the Isegahama ichimon. I remember reading that Futagahuro in 1986 had to be taught by someone outside the Tatsunami-Isegahana ichimon as they had been without a yokozuna for so long they had no-one familiar with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
