Kachikoshi 30 Posted January 22 I wanted to toot my own horn and note that in each of my 9 tournaments playing Sumo Game I have won 9+ times. https://www.japan-guide.com/sumo/rikishi.html?1335 Despite this I am still ranked in Makushita. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,960 Posted January 22 12 minutes ago, Kachikoshi said: Despite this I am still ranked in Makushita. Yup, that's Sumo Game for you. You not only need success but also a truckload of patience to escape Makushita Hell. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,384 Posted January 22 I once won back-to-back 13-2 Makushita yushos in the Sumo Game, after which I was ranked at ms33E. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,309 Posted January 22 (edited) I managed to have back-to-back days in Toto in which I was the first player below the line, and then the last one above. 1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said: Yup, that's Sumo Game for you. You not only need success but also a truckload of patience to escape Makushita Hell. If anyone's ever wondering why "my" games see KK players promoted so aggressively, not wanting to be like that was one of the primary reasons I set it up that way. No newcomer to the games should be expected to essentially sign up for a lifetime career just to get anywhere relevant on the banzuke. Edited January 22 by Asashosakari 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kachikoshi 30 Posted January 23 23 hours ago, Asashosakari said: If anyone's ever wondering why "my" games see KK players promoted so aggressively, not wanting to be like that was one of the primary reasons I set it up that way. No newcomer to the games should be expected to essentially sign up for a lifetime career just to get anywhere relevant on the banzuke. I think Sumo Game's ranking system works fine in Makuuchi and Juryo. The problem is the movement is the same at the top of the banzuke as at the bottom. God help us if there were an extra 200 players; then it would take a decade minimum to get to Juryo. Further, since Sumo Game actually matches you up with people near you on the banzuke, the rankings actually matter for having competitive matches. In real ozumo, if you are overranked, put up a weak performance and go 4-11, in the next basho you'll be put approximately where you belong and will have a good shot at a kachikoshi. In Sumo Game you'll be slightly demoted and be up against players of approximately the same skill level who will probably once again put a beating on you. My simple fix would be to double target promotions/demotions in Makushita, so that a 9-6 is worth +6 ranks instead of +3. And maybe split the bottom of Makushita off into Sandanme and triple the promotions/demotions there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,309 Posted January 23 7 minutes ago, Kachikoshi said: My simple fix would be to double target promotions/demotions in Makushita, so that a 9-6 is worth +6 ranks instead of +3. And maybe split the bottom of Makushita off into Sandanme and triple the promotions/demotions there. It's often not that simple because the glass ceiling between juryo and makushita will still be the same harsh mistress, so sudden breaks in treatment from one division to the other rarely work. FWIW, back when I was doing the banzuke for the Fantasy Sumo game (it's been dead for over five years, but used to have over 200 ranked players ranked like SG), I was gradually increasing the ranks-per-win multiplier in half-rank steps from 2.5 at the top of makushita up to 4 towards the bottom. (Plus some extra generosity for particularly strong records.) But it's hard to do that by algorithm because the sensible break points aren't necessarily at the same ranks every time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,960 Posted January 23 1 minute ago, Asashosakari said: FWIW, back when I was doing the banzuke for the Fantasy Sumo game (it's been dead for over five years, but used to have over 200 ranked players ranked like SG)[...] Wasn't that the game with additional North and South entries for each rank? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,309 Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said: Wasn't that the game with additional North and South entries for each rank? Not after I took over! Actually, Sokkenaiyama had already scrapped that during the year or so that he handled the FS banzuke before me. That four-sided banzuke setup had some issues, but lack of mobility definitely wasn't one of them - IIRC each win was counted as equal to two full ranks everywhere, so like four ranks on a normal banzuke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ganzohnesushi 515 Posted January 24 When I took over the Banzuke making duty for ISP I decided to make the Banzuke at least for Makushita much more versatile. I'm simply following a mathematical calculation. Below ms5 one additional win gives you a 3.51 promotion. So ms23w finishing 9-6 will always be ranked above ms20e with an 8-7 record, ms30e scoring 5-10 will find him-/herself below a ms33w finishing 6-9 on the next Banzuke. But.... in the end it always depends on the overall average wins in your division. If the average is 8.7 in your division you can`t expect big jumps with a 10-5 record. Ganzohnesushi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,309 Posted January 24 (edited) On 22/01/2025 at 21:14, Asashosakari said: I managed to have back-to-back days in Toto in which I was the first player below the line, and then the last one above. Hmm, I've actually done everything this basho. Also first place, and finally yesterday last place, too. Edited January 24 by Asashosakari 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ganzohnesushi 515 Posted January 24 ISP Yusho sealed on Day 13! Tochinoryu (ms25E) is 12-1 now and three wins ahead of his pursuers. Omedetto! 5 of his/her 12 wins were generated by the auto-pick formula. Unbelievable. Ganzohnesushi 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,309 Posted January 26 (edited) On 24/01/2025 at 02:49, Asashosakari said: On 22/01/2025 at 21:14, Asashosakari said: I managed to have back-to-back days in Toto in which I was the first player below the line, and then the last one above. Hmm, I've actually done everything this basho. Also first place, and finally yesterday last place, too. And another "last one to win" result. What a basho. Edited January 26 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xiongmao 12 Posted January 27 On 24/01/2025 at 05:16, Kachikoshi said: I think Sumo Game's ranking system works fine in Makuuchi and Juryo. The problem is the movement is the same at the top of the banzuke as at the bottom. God help us if there were an extra 200 players; then it would take a decade minimum to get to Juryo. Further, since Sumo Game actually matches you up with people near you on the banzuke, the rankings actually matter for having competitive matches. In real ozumo, if you are overranked, put up a weak performance and go 4-11, in the next basho you'll be put approximately where you belong and will have a good shot at a kachikoshi. In Sumo Game you'll be slightly demoted and be up against players of approximately the same skill level who will probably once again put a beating on you. My simple fix would be to double target promotions/demotions in Makushita, so that a 9-6 is worth +6 ranks instead of +3. And maybe split the bottom of Makushita off into Sandanme and triple the promotions/demotions there. You can actually contact the guy who runs the game directly from the FAQ page. He's always happy to reply so why not make your suggestion directly? Incidentally, I don't know if anyone noticed, but the Hatsu Basho Makushita division yusho winner had to be determined randomly! And apparently it wasn't the first time! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xiongmao 12 Posted January 27 7 hours ago, Asashosakari said: And another "last one to win" result. What a basho. I remember once the yusho was between Moti and myself on the final day and I finished one above the line and he finished one below the line. Absolute shenanigans. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xiongmao 12 Posted January 27 (edited) On 23/01/2025 at 03:06, Kachikoshi said: I wanted to toot my own horn and note that in each of my 9 tournaments playing Sumo Game I have won 9+ times. https://www.japan-guide.com/sumo/rikishi.html?1335 Despite this I am still ranked in Makushita. Very impressive run. It's a truly evil game and difficult to maintain any kind of consistency. Poor Chocshoporyu! Edited January 27 by Xiongmao Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,093 Posted January 27 (edited) I apologize to all ISP players (and to Ganz especially..) for totally demolishing them this basho*. KK line runs at 37 players, of 160. And let's not go into that discussion about what is better for the game- I only pick them, the rest is up to the players. I truly never will understand the huge one sidedness of guesses of matches that to me seem quite even. Well, at least I enjoyed it. Sorry.. *- The craziness of this basho Shirley helped reach these "results" and the fact that a player droning for a third of the basho got the yusho either speaks volumes or vice versa.. Edited January 27 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yarimotsu 572 Posted January 27 1 hour ago, Kintamayama said: I only pick them, the rest is up to the players. I truly never will understand the huge one sidedness of guesses of matches that to me seem quite even. Well, at least I enjoyed it As someone running a game where the same happens, it doesn't get to me. Even if I think it's 51% in one guy's favour and 49% to the other guy, if all my players agree with me then we all pick the 51% guy and the result is a complete blowout even if it looked relatively balanced on primary analysis. I always find it interesting to count how many of Game 21's bouts come up in ISP as it shows we think similarly about which bouts are interesting or well-balanced. Some occasions it's been 6 times in a basho! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,309 Posted January 27 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Yarimotsu said: As someone running a game where the same happens, it doesn't get to me. Even if I think it's 51% in one guy's favour and 49% to the other guy, if all my players agree with me then we all pick the 51% guy and the result is a complete blowout even if it looked relatively balanced on primary analysis. Exactly this. Ultimately the average score should be pretty unimportant to the player base anyway, every game edition is equally hard to win. And speaking as the S4 banzuke maker here, where we've seen anything from 5.5 to 9.5 wins, some of the absolute worst rankings to make haven't actually come after those extreme tournaments, but rather in others where the average was okay but the by-player distribution sucked (18 makuuchi scores of 8-7 and the like, or 15 players rising and falling into the same 4-rank section). Edited January 27 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kachikoshi 30 Posted January 27 (edited) I’ve always felt the strategy to win the most yusho in many of the games is to pick an “unconventional” lineup - zig when everyone else zags. Of course it’s not a good strategy to climb the banzuke because your average performance will be bad, but you’ll have more outliers. There’s a whole cadre of degenerates who do this every basho in Odd Sumo. They make long shot bets and almost invariably go 0-15, praying to one day strike gold and instantly win the tournament. Edited January 27 by Kachikoshi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gernobono 466 Posted January 27 2 hours ago, Kachikoshi said: There’s a whole cadre of degenerates who do this every basho in Odd Sumo i am not degenerated, but i am on of those making high reward (risky) bets, but only for the reason it is more fun for me usually i am looking for factors above 1,5 and a chance to win in my eye....i only care for banzuke in 2 games.....benchsumo and german tipspiel....all others i do not care....my goal is to win all the games at least once....and cannot relate to guys (will not call names) who are going for riskfactor 1,12 and ante 1 each day just to end above average and earning masters-points (or whatever), but i would not call them degenerates 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ganzohnesushi 515 Posted Monday at 21:24 2 hours ago, Gernobono said: ....and cannot relate to guys (will not call names) who are going for riskfactor 1,12 and ante 1 each day just to end above average and earning masters-points (or whatever), but i would not call them degenerates Anyone can check this on Golynohana's sumo site. Here you may find various records, such as "Winning bets percentage" or "Career Earnings" or "Average amount of winning bets". The latter is lead by Gernobono miles ahead... http://www.sumogames.de/Golynohana/ODDSUMO/OddSumoRecordsPage.aspx Also worth looking here: http://www.sumogames.de/Golynohana/ODDSUMO/OddSumoHallOfFame.aspx Ganzohnesushi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unkonoyama 105 Posted Tuesday at 00:55 8 hours ago, Kachikoshi said: I’ve always felt the strategy to win the most yusho in many of the games is to pick an “unconventional” lineup - zig when everyone else zags. Of course it’s not a good strategy to climb the banzuke because your average performance will be bad, but you’ll have more outliers. There’s a whole cadre of degenerates who do this every basho in Odd Sumo. They make long shot bets and almost invariably go 0-15, praying to one day strike gold and instantly win the tournament. Degenerates win yusho https://www.sumogames.de/Golynohana/ODDSUMO/OddSumoHallOfFame.aspx I see Gernobono and myself on this page... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,960 Posted Tuesday at 06:23 8 hours ago, Ganzohnesushi said: http://www.sumogames.de/Golynohana/ODDSUMO/OddSumoRecordsPage.aspx "Career earnings" is interesting. There are only 14 players out of 214 with an overall positive net income. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 717 Posted Tuesday at 07:12 49 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said: "Career earnings" is interesting. There are only 14 players out of 214 with an overall positive net income. The house always wins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kajiyanosho 38 Posted Tuesday at 09:17 2 hours ago, Jakusotsu said: "Career earnings" is interesting. There are only 14 players out of 214 with an overall positive net income. Wow, this is interesting. I wish there was a ranking of 'number of bets lost for just one bout'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
