Yokozuna Hoshoryu

[junsan 192]

 

[Chiyozakura 148]

It has been some time since my last post on this forum but this thread itches my fingers too much as there is so much wrong information in it.

There are no clear rules as to what will happen in regards to promotions. The people in charge change all the time, public reception changes, business situation changes, etc. pp and thus something that has been done a year ago could be handled the opposite way now. On the positive side it makes it interesting but on the negative side your favourite rikishi can suffer under it. The suprisingly positive side of it is that they basically got Yokozuna promotions right. There are hardly any career Ozeki who have done way better than the worst Yokozuna.

There is a guideline, not a rule, that an Ozeki with back to back yusho will be promoted but they can be promoted with less and also not be promoted with it. We have not had the case, yet, but in 1996 we had Musashimaru winning an Ozeki yusho at 11-4 and the NSK publicly declared he was not on a Tsuna run the next basho as 4 losses were not Yokozuna material. So it is not a given, but still might be done some day.

Chiyonoyama was a completely different case. The NSK wanted to promote him but his Oyakata sad he was still too immature. The whole thing was based on then-Dewanoumi (Ex-Tsunenohana), not on the rest of the NSK or YDC.

Konishiki's case is always brought up again but I can assure you it was more of an international affair than something that was a major topic in the sumo world when it happened. His middle tournament of 12-3 looks way better on paper than in real time. He got his third loss on day 7 and was out of the Yusho race. The headlines were on 19-year old Maegashira Takahanada who went 14-1 and got his first yusho and the the second topic was Akebono, a 21-year old Komusubi finishing 13-2. So it was not even close to a jun-yusho for Konishiki but an also-ran behind the future of sumo. When he went into the next basho there was a consenus that he was not on a Yokozuna run. There are no internet forums to check that up but Sumo World magazine is a nice contemporary witness. If you read the roundtable discussions with guys like Andy Adams, David Shapiro, Clyde Newton, Doreen Simmons and others you will find that they do not even discuss Konishiki's promotion but discuss how he was weak mentally by blowing it in the first week and overall not being Yokozuna material. There is no promotion talk after his last yusho, however they are surprised by the international uproar during the July issue. And Sumo World was known for highlighting the Hawaiian rikishi as Americans were probably their main readership. These days, however, Konishiki's results may warrant promotion as they have become more lenient again.

By the way, the best example for someone not being promoted to Yokozuna despite outstanding results is Asahifuji in early 1989 with five straight basho of 12 plus jun-yushos, three straight tournaments with a maximum of two losses and two play-off appearances and already a Yusho to his credit from the year before. I am pretty sure Kotozakura would be promoted somewhere along the way if he were to put up the same numbers now. But given sumo's state of having no outstanding rikishi at the moment he might win five yusho with those results.

[Gaijingai 1,579]

News article about the tsuna-making.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20250130/p2g/00m/0sp/049000c

[Akinomaki 40,600]

As expected, TV Asahi posted detailed reports about the dohyo-iri preparations today (premium quality - I lost access to that for a while after YT blocked my ISP, but it still works with yt-dlp)

detailed comment by Musashimaru

[Akinomaki 40,600]

No live stream - Asashoryu was there to watch the unryu style first yokozuna dohyo-iri of the new 74th yokozuna, on the same day as he did 22years ago, Jan. 31st

o

he arrived yesterday

o

As expected and trained, tachimochi Hiradoumi and tsuyuharai Meisei

[Akinomaki 40,600]

About 3500 watched at the Meiji shrine, he used a set of his trainer Musashimaru https://www.zakzak.co.jp/article/20250131-QHETYDBTIFN7HG3J24TJQJSBLI/

[code_number3 706]

15 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

About 3500 watched at the Meiji shrine, he used a set of his trainer Musashimaru https://www.zakzak.co.jp/article/20250131-QHETYDBTIFN7HG3J24TJQJSBLI/

 

[Andreas21 184]

On 30/01/2025 at 09:59, Chiyozakura said:

By the way, the best example for someone not being promoted to Yokozuna despite outstanding results is Asahifuji in early 1989

I find an even more remarkable non-promotion in July 1993: 14-1Y and 13-2D. None other than Takanohana who later posted a 15-0Y 15-0Y to convince the committee. I don't know the talk and press back then. Can you help out? It's probably the "still premature" argument again. Arguably, this was the hardest non-promotion in recent times.

Also Hakuho suffered a remarkable non-promotion at 14-1Y 13-2J in 2006, which is good by the numbers, but the 13-2 non-yusho was decided on day 14 and he was not seriously in the yusho race - two win lead by Asashoryo after day 11.

[RabidJohn 1,792]

41 minutes ago, Andreas21 said:

Can you help out?

It's actually quite simple. Takanohana was active early on in the period when yokozuna promotions came only after back to back yusho. It began some time between the ousting of Futahaguro in 1987 and the promotion Asahifuji in 1990, and ended with the promotion of Kakuryu in 2014. Much of the discussion hereabouts arises from folk still coming to terms with that era's passing.

Edited January 31 by RabidJohn

[Seiyashi 4,097]

1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

It's actually quite simple. Takanohana was active early on in the period when yokozuna promotions came only after back to back yusho. It began some time between the ousting of Futahaguro in 1987 and the promotion Asahifuji in 1990, and ended with the promotion of Kakuryu in 2014. Much of the discussion hereabouts arises from folk still coming to terms with that era's passing.

To add to this, Akebono had been promoted with back to back yūshō before this, hence the EN wiki's note that the YDC demanded the same of Takanohana or wtte. The whole Konishiki thing was also quite recent at that time, so even the most race-blind members of the YDC had to pay attention to how it would look. This also ought to be one of the rare instances where the YDC disagreed with the NSK on yokozuna promotion, as IIRC the NSK actually put up Takanohana for promotion one basho after that YD, on the basis of a yūshō almost every other basho. 

Edited January 31 by Seiyashi

[Seiyashi 4,097]

I have to say, given the distance between the camera and the dohyō-iri, Hōshōryū almost looked like Asashōryū at some points there.

 

[Leoben 143]

 

5 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

[junsan 192]

TV Asahi Sports footage with Shinto ceremony, Asashoryu, interview:

 

Edited January 31 by junsan

[Gaijingai 1,579]

Hoshorshu Must Prove He’s a Worthy Yokozuna 

https://japan-forward.com/hoshoryu-must-prove-hes-a-worthy-yokozuna/

[nagora 88]

On 30/01/2025 at 08:59, Chiyozakura said:

By the way, the best example for someone not being promoted to Yokozuna despite outstanding results is Asahifuji in early 1989

Surely the best example is Raiden Tameemon who should have been the first Yokozuna :)

Anyway, Hōshōryū has been strong for a good while and this last performance was excellent. 14-3, really. It's not a terrible choice IMO, but I hope he can live up to it. I'm expecting Kotozakura to join him before too long despite his meltdown.

[Reonito 1,469]

6 hours ago, Andreas21 said:

I find an even more remarkable non-promotion in July 1993: 14-1Y and 13-2D. None other than Takanohana who later posted a 15-0Y 15-0Y to convince the committee. I don't know the talk and press back then. Can you help out? It's probably the "still premature" argument again. Arguably, this was the hardest non-promotion in recent times.

Also Hakuho suffered a remarkable non-promotion at 14-1Y 13-2J in 2006, which is good by the numbers, but the 13-2 non-yusho was decided on day 14 and he was not seriously in the yusho race - two win lead by Asashoryo after day 11.

You can throw in Musashimaru’s 12-3 J 15-0Y. In the first basho, he would have forced a playoff if he beat Takanohana on day 15. Took him 5 more years to be promoted, by which point he'd racked up 5 yusho and 10 JY.

[Gurowake 4,087]

4 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Hōshōryū almost looked like Asashōryū at some points there.

There's been a lot of these photos where I would believe you if you said they were old pictures of Asashoryu being used to compare to his nephew.

[Dapeng 235]

45 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

There's been a lot of these photos where I would believe you if you said they were old pictures of Asashoryu being used to compare to his nephew.

It's said that when Asashoryu saw Hoshoryu beaten by Kotozakura on the last day of last year's Nov. basho, he said that the Mongolian-born  rikishies' dominance of sumo that he started was effectively ended. Now we can say that the Mongolian dominance will be continued for a few more years, at least.

[Barutokai 65]

I wonder if Takakeisho's health was also in the picture of a promotion discussion.

The answer is probably yes: he had to withdraw already from some tournaments up until his DY streak two years ago. And they probably remembered the scene were Takakeisho hat his awful neck injury against Ichinojo in July '21.

Hoshoryu on the other side seems to be in a much healthier position.

[Akinomaki 40,600]

First dohyo-iri on the kokugikan dohyo today at the danpatsu-shiki of Tokushoryu  - with as special attendants the top heya mates of Tokushoryu, tachi-mochi Ura, tsuyu-harai Kinbozan - still the quite neutral set of Musashimaru, Takasu can't force the making in a few days

o o o o o o o o o

he also had a cut

  o o o

Edited February 1 by Akinomaki

[Morning 83]

Is there a nice big picture version of Ura as tachi-mochi?

[Akinomaki 40,600]

3 minutes ago, Morning said:

Is there a nice big picture version of Ura as tachi-mochi?

definitely more later, so far this

[Akinomaki 40,600]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

First dohyo-iri on the kokugikan dohyo today at the danpatsu-shiki of Tokushoryu  - with as special attendants the top heya mates of Tokushoryu, tachi-mochi Ura, tsuyu-harai Kinbozan

With a miss before the last shiko stamp, he should have only raised the right arm and he raised the left before that

o o 

[code_number3 706]

Takasu gives update about Hoshoryu’s new kesho mawashi

 

[Akinomaki 40,600]

12 hours ago, Morning said:

Is there a nice big picture version of Ura as tachi-mochi? 

Just one other today, only the miss at the dohyo-iri is in the focus now o 

Edited February 1 by Akinomaki